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The subject of intentional breeding or meat rabbits is prohibited. The answers provided on this board are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. It is your responsibility to assess the information being given and seek professional advice/second opinion from your veterinarian and/or qualified behaviorist.
Hi folks. *yawn* Pardon me if this post comes out a little bleary and rambling, but I’ve had a long night. I had been up until about 3 this morning trying to get to sleep and I had finally managed it, only to be awakened by this…at first I was a little cross.
So early this morning, at about 3:30 – 4 or so, Mimzy suddenly begins thumping in his pen with his right rear foot. (I say this because Fiver tends to thump with his front paws and it’s pertinent to my question.) Usually, if there’s something bothering Mimzy enough to thump, a short squirt with the water bottle or a general negative comment to him will calm him down. It definitely works for Pip when she pulls this stuff, because she hates the squirt bottle and will stop thumping and go wash her queenly features…annoyance is not as effective when wet.
Mimzy would not stop. So I tried squirting him again and was a little more insistent with a command of “No!” (For those of you shaking your heads at me already, remember that I had just gotten to sleep half an hour ago and I was very foggy at this point.)
I ldid look around my room and listened as hard as I could. Beyond the racket Mimzy made (he thumps once every few seconds whereas the other buns tend to only do it once every fifteen or so) I could not hear any strange noises nor sense any unusual smells or ‘atmospheres’ that would’ve told me a thing about why he was thumping. The house was not on fire. The stick was not beating dog the dog was not chasing cat…what the heck…?
Then I noticed he was huddled in the back corner of his pen (his safety spot) and in the dim light I could see his eye was wide open, almost to bulging and he looked a little hunched up. So I took pity and pulled him out for some lap time. Normally, Mimzy does not take to being brought out of his pen easily, I managed to get him under the breastbone (a place he always jumps from my hand from) and pulled him out into my lap. He immediately snuggled into the crook in my arm and sat there for a little while just letting me pet him. This gave the other two buns a chance to calm down and all was quiet in the house once again. Except for his breathing, fast and shallow, which made it sound like it was shaking his whole body-he was trembling like a leaf-and the clicking of his teeth together, like humans do when they are cold. This is his “oh-no-I’m-at-the-vet” stance. You all have seen it before in yoru buns, I’m sure.
I held him for awhile like this and he would put his forepaw over my arm and resettle himself, then he’d shift again back into my arms, then shift out again. Clearly something was not feeling good, but I’ve always been told that bunnies just sit still and look miserable when they are in pain, not that they move about in this uneasy manner. Plus the thumping…I’m thinking if I were a bunny and had gas, I wouldn’t want to move, period. Why would I thump my foot? So I was confused. Sadly, where I’d squirted his face was right over the right eye and the ear, and both ears were rather cool to the touch…not like his normal temp at all, so I began to think he was in some kind of shock. But what would’ve shocked him?
We sit like this for a little while, then I figure, well, nothing else seems to be happening, maybe I am making him more nervous in my lap than he would be in his pen, so I tried putting him back in. He scoots in and scurries to his safety spot and once more, the thumping begins. He still looks wild eyed and hunched.
During this time, my son comes in and asks me a bunch of (I felt at that moment) stupid questions about “Whatsa matter…Did bunny have a nightmare?” I was in no mood, so I barked at him to get out. I know the buns are not happy with the sound of his voice late at night, (or most other times), so I didn’t need him there mucking things up. He’d only recently gone to bed, the night owl, after watching a show on PBS with me in that very room. So they knew he was up, he hadn’t done anything to frighten Mimzy. But he seems to grate on already raw nerves, so he was no help.
Mimz is still thumping, so I put my hand in the pen and tried to soothe him a bit, my earlier frustration turning to growing concern as he still didn’t stop thumping, it took me more than a few noserbus to get anything close to calm out of him…yet he still seemed to be making himself as small as he possibly could. But while petting him, he slides down into an almost bunny puddle, still with the same wild look in his eye. It’s more like he can’t hold that scrunched up pose.
Well, this is enough for me to turn on the light and see what could be up. The light does not assuage him in the least. Normally, this would help him relax. Unless I have my hand in there and am petting him, he doesn’t stop thumping and hunching himself into a ball. I should point out that I even tried putting some hay in front of him and he wouldn’t take it, and even his favorite treat of treats, dried blueberry, is only grudgingly nibbled at. So I break out the Mylicon thinking he must have gas or some kind of stomach pain. I truly can’t tell by palpating if there’s tension in the stomach area or not, I am not that skilled at this kind of diagnosis. But my bunny is definitely “off”.
This is where my daughter (another night owl) comes in and helps. If there’s one person in the house the bunnies love, it’s her. Mimzy actually is quite taken with her and I think it’s her presence that finally starts getting him to come round. Not remembering the correct dose, I just make it so that only a few drops go into his mouth. Then the two of us sit on the bed and try to calm him down, try to get those ears warmed up and I also placed him on the bed for a full body bunny massage, including trying to rub his stomach. (He won’t go over on his back, so I have to reach under…something else he will not let me do because he thinks this mean I am picking him up, which he hates.) I still don’t feel anything I can identify as a blockage or tightness…but I rub anyway. I keep hearing things I think might be bunny tummy gurgles, but honestly I couldn’t tell if it was him, my daughter or me.
I think we sat with him till after 5 A.M., just petting him and talking softly. But it wasn’t until after I gave him a little drop of Rescue Remedy off the tip of my finger that he seemed to become more himself. We’d sit back and see if he wanted to move around the bed and investigate (keeping him away from Fiver’s pen-it’s occupant virtually seething with rage that we let HIM out on Fiver’s precious binky space again without permission…which he would never give, btw) and Mimzy would slowly hop around and once in awhile would wash his face or scratch. He was beginning to seem like normal Mimzy again and I was starting to calm down too.
Finally, it looks like he’s back to himself and sure enough, he suddenly starts digging the bedclothes and we know what that means. I reached for him but he scooted away, when I picked him up the second time a little poopie drops in my lap. I rush him into his pen and he heads straight for the litter box and squats. Then he takes himself out, goes to his sleeping spot and starts to settle down. (I have yet to check that box this morning…well afternoon now…as I came in here at once upon waking to post this.)
It was almost 6 AM before I could turn off the light and get back to sleep. This morning, he is up, his right ear flipping up into radar mode at the sound of movement from me, eating hay from the litter box, flopping onto his side for snoozes and just in general looking happier than I have seen him in awhile.
Sooo…. Conclusions? I am at a loss. I want to take him to the vet to see if he’s got something serious going on, but he seems fine today. Why give him more stress with the car ride?
Also…yesterday he had crustiness on his right eye again. Been this way for a few days. I put some of that Neo/Poly/Dex/Opth that the vet gave me into that eye…not much, just one squirt, but unfortunately I think I got more on his eyelid than on the eyeball and he immediately set to washing his face, I’m sure he had to have ingested some. Coud that stuff, with it’s steroidal component, have caused some kind of stomach distress, almost 20 hours later? Or could it have really given him nightmares? (I know how steroids made ME feel during chemo…it wasn’t fun…but that was major doses, so I don’t see a connection really.)
The only other thing I think could’ve set him off into a fear response would be my husband had some serious lung issues last night and sounded for awhile like he was coughing his guts out…but I don’t think he was doing that before Mimzy began thumping. It was more during. He also had come to the door after the first few thumps to see what was wrong, as Mimzy’s foot can be heard throughout our little storage locker that we call home.
The last time Mimzy thumped like this, the next day one of my cats died. Even without that, I am more than a bit concerned.
Anything else I should be doing? I have some baby blankets to make today and I have to go over to our other buildings so I have a clean place to put them together. (My bro-in-law and his wife just had their twins Monday night by c-section, so I’m a little behind…) Maybe I should put this off another day and just watch Mimzy today?
My only guess would be gas- even though you could not feel anything. Simethicone seems to have little to no side effects so giving a dose even if you are unsure what is causing the distress/restless should not negatively affect him. The fact that he was hunched in a ball can indicate that their tummy hurts- he could have been hunching to put less pressure on his belly.
The dose for Simethicone is 65-130mg every hour as needed for 2-3 treatments. That is the dose that is listed in the formulary I have, others might have better experience with a different dose.
I also find it interesting that you used Rescue Remedy and that seemed to help (maybe?)- RR is another thing that should have little to no side affects. So maybe if you are suspecting gas- I would try Simethicone and if that does not work or you expect some other type of external stresser- Rescue Remedy can help. It was probably nice for Mimzy to have some Rescue Remedy after such a sleepless night.
Maybe someone else will have some ideas.
If he seems fine today and eating, drinking and droppings are normal- I am not sure the vet will find a definitive diagnosis. But if you continue to worry or Mimzy is just not himself or starts other unusual unexplained behavior- then he would need to be seen.
Thanks Katnip. Yes, he took his greens just a bit ago and munched them down. I put a little Carefresh in his pen (which I normally don’t do) to give him a soft spot to lay upon and he went and peed directly in the clean box I just put in, as is customary. I think he’s okay today, but still keeping a watchful eye. He does look like I feel as far as lack of sleep is concerned. ^_^
A very distressing night for all of us. I would rather not go through that again anytime soon if I can avoid it.
I wonder what exactly gave him the gas, if that was indeed the cause? And why he would thump over it? I thought bunnies kept their illnesses quiet? He was definitely letting me know in no uncertain terms that he needed help. Surprising. 0_o
Oh, just one more quick question…the Mylicon I gave Mimz last night is a children’s dropper form and is liquid. Can you tell me how much of that is the correct dosage? It has two strengths: a .3 ml dose for children under 2 and a .6 ml dose for children older than 2. How does this translate to a bunny? I only gave him a few drops (it took me forever to get just a few drops in the dropper, I can tell you, but I was afraid to overdose him) and I really didn’t see any change until I squirted a drop of Rescue Remedy on my finger and rubbed that on his gums about 30 minutes later. So I can’t be sure which medicine did the trick, honestly. :-/
You know Mimz Mum your baby just may have been asking for help. Some animals just seem to know that people or in particular their parent can help them. I hope thats all it was is gas. As she seems to be fine today and hopefully stays that way. .
I think rabbits can react individually to pain, and their tummies are so sensitive- who knows what could have triggered gas. Plus they are pretty famous for nibbling on things they are not supposed to.
The gas drops that I have (and are supposed to compare to Mylicon) are 20mg per .3ml. And on the dropper there are 2 levels-
.3ml which would be 20mg
.6ml which would be 40mg
so you could give 1ml to 2mls for a dosage. If you do not have a syringe you could give 2 doses of .6ml to equal 1.2mls. (which would be 80mgs which falls within the 65-130mg range). Make sense?
I am not terribly experienced with horses- but I think when they get colic or GI pain they can start kicking and will try to look at their sides to “see” what is hurting. Mimzy could have been showing irritation to something he did NOT like and did not understand. Of course this is all speculation, and we KNEW what Mimzy was thinking- we would be busy preparing that 8 course raw vegan fine dining menu right now!
Sounds like gas, especially if he doesn’t normally do that kind of thing.
Kahlua does the non-stop thumping ALL the time. No rhyme or reason at all-little diva.
Well thanks everyone! ^_^ I think more about it and I have to conclude he was trying to get my attention for something. I’ve never seen him have a bilious attack yet, but there’s a first time for everything. And I’m sure if nothing else, he enjoyed having that ‘special’ time out with mom. He sure seemed happy this morning anyway.
Gotcha on the dosage, Kat. Thanks again!
He’s still fine tonight. I am about ready to do his evening pen clean and give him his pellets and nighttime pile of hay.
Odd…we’re all (the humans) having some kind of stomach problem right now. I have to wonder if he’s having sympathy pains for us? 0_o At least I hope he hasn’t got what we’ve got…it’s been rather uncomfortable.
how strange! i wish Mead would thump when she has gas, i have to seek her out. that does sound like it might have been the culprit. does he get gas often or is this one of the first times? like Katnip said, you cannot overdose with the gas drops so i think you did the right thing in giving them. i wouldn’t take him to the vet for this, but i’d watch him, make sure he’s eating and pooping like normal.
No Beka, this is really the first time I’ve ever had to deal with gas in Mimzy. Awhile ago, Fiver had some stomach distress that made him gurgle quite a bit, but a quick tummy massage seemed to help. (Plus I learned that Fiver + cardboard tubes do not = happy bunny.)
I have yet to see Pip with gas also. The day before Mimzy fell ill, she was not quite herself, so, I think I can trace this back to the possibility of too many treats. (it may be that a certain someone in the house is sneaking some to them when I’m not looking) >.>
Goodies going under lockdown for awhile. *nods*
that was what i had to do the last time Mead had a scare. the raisins went bye-bye… the papaya tablets were strictly limited, and pellets were reduced even more. of course Max is an innocent bystander in all this, but i guess what’s good for the Meadow… is good for the Max… lol. they might have had gas before but it may have been more fleeting… a lot of the time they can overcome this without any human intervention, but i guess if the drops make them a bit more comforatble, it doesn’t hurt.
I’m just glad I had the drops at the time, even if they did nothing to help overall…. I feared that Mimzy was seriously ill and perhaps about to meet the Black Rabbit and I had to try to do something to prevent that or ease the transition. Honestly, he was so unlike himself, I was beginning to worry and wondered how I could get the hubby to drive us into the e.r. vet, thirty miles away…at four in the morning on slippery winter roads?
Totally normal bunny now though. Back to tossing his litter box at about 8 every morning (something he hasn’t done in months) to let me know I am not up early enough yet for him and when are his greens coming?? ^_^
This episode seems to have really thrown off his sweet tooth now too…kind of like a ‘hair of the dog’ thing, you know?
I mostly feel bad about thinking he was just thumping to alert everyone to some unseen danger and hoping a squirt would stop it. Since the cat had just been in the room, I though maybe he was just annoyed and wanted everyone else to be annoyed too. My poor sweetie-bun! Will be taking that noise a little more seriously from now on.
it’s okay Mimz… you didn’t know! next time if he’s thumping now you know to go take a look at him first…