here’s the video from yesterday afternoon.  sorry it’s so dark again.  i can see perfectly fine, but i guess when i’m doing this at 3-4 o’clock the sun is moving to the other side of the house and it looks like it’s pitch black.

http://www.youtube.com/watch

this is what went on yesterday.  we did another hour, no stress before hand.  the area is smaller with a NIC grid fence blocking past the dresser.  no fights.  there was one fur-pulling scuffle that stopped when the water bottle came out.  Max is afraid of Meadow now.  when she walks up to him, he thumps and then hops away quickly.  i was petting him a lot to try and calm him down…  there was possessiveness of the hay-filled litterbox the day before, so i added in a small cardboard box with more hay.  they both would take turns in the litterbox and nibbling from the other box.  the above video starts off with Meadow and Max nose to nose.  she presented to him for grooming and laid there for several minutes.  he just sat looking at her.  there was no grooming on his part (or hers).  i gently dropped a few drops of the water onto their heads, but still no grooming.  i would reach over and rub both of their heads myself, i guess to simulate grooming, is this a good idea or no?

i took Max and Meadow in my room right after work. there were no fights. no fur-pulling. no nipping. Max was sitting in the litterbox and i lifted Meadow in there and they sat together, side-by-side for about ten minutes. Meadow continued to present herself for grooming and Max just sat there. i dripped some water on each of their heads… then Meadow started to GROOM Max’s ear. this went on for about a minute. she hopped out and came up to me, so i gave her some pets. i put her back in the box with Max and she settled down.  —>  http://www.youtube.com/watch

she hopped out again, i gave her some more pets for a few minutes, and then i put her in the litterbox once again, and this is when she really went to town grooming Max. she licked his ear, inside and out and by his eye.  —>  http://www.youtube.com/watch

THEN MY CAMERA DIED!!!   <——–Grrr…….

but there was GROOMING!  so that’s something, right?  it gives me some hope at least…

yes, Max is still pretty scared of her. i don’t blame him, she’s been less than hospitable this week… i’m just gonna keep with what i’m doing for now.

^ ? good question… i took it to mean almost like it was Meadow apologizing and realizing that hey, this bun isn’t so bad. of course, i’m probably way off, but that’s my human interpretation… she was still presenting to him tho also…

Max is about 98% with the litterbox. he has never had a pee accident at all… just a few poops around. even those have pretty much stopped. Meadow was marking a lot more. she peed in the corner of the plastic cage bottom in the xpen for a couple days. she’s been leaving some poops around. i’d say she’s at about 90% now. i think she is doing it because everyday i switch their xpens.

lol… i better get a padlock for the xpen…

he was allowed to play outside, but he was housed indoors in bad or cold weather and at night. so he was litterbox trained. she said he would probably lose the habits for a few days but they’d come back… and they did. i have no complaints with him, except that he’s a bit scared of us. i haven’t been doing too much to bond to him b/c i’ve been so focused on him and Mead.

i just re-read Markus’ bonding thread. that thing is invaluable. thanks so much Markus for documenting everything!

Max and Meadow sound a lot like Dono and Maryann. things are still the same after the weekend. Max is afraid of her, he will tense up and thump if she comes near him. if i put him next to her, he will either bolt, or hunch way down. if she walks up to him, he will jump over her to get away. she is seeking him out, but he’s trying his best to avoid her.

today we did another hour in the bedroom. there was no aggression, and Max seemed more laid-back. he thumped only once. he even groomed Meadow for about 10 seconds while they were sitting in the litterbox together.

after that i let them out in their room together briefly. i put up the baby gate so they were confined in the area and opened up one half of the pen. they sat in the same side for about five minutes. Meadow did do a half-lunge towards him a couple times as he hopped around, but there was no real fighting, and then they ignored each other for the rest of the time, about 15 more minutes.

if things continue like this for the rest of the week, i’m going to try something else over the weekend.

in your case i think just getting them used to each other’s scents will help. if they never see each other except in an occasional bonding session, they are not really getting used to each other as being permanent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch

here’s the vid of Max grooming Meadow.  he did it another time today for a few seconds also.

one or the other was already in the box. i lifted the second bun in myself. should i not do that?

well, i tried something a little bit different today.  —>  http://www.youtube.com/watch   maybe it’s a good idea, maybe not, but it seemed to work fine for us.  i really have no other neutral space besides my bedroom, so i decided i was going to take a chance at putting them together in their own room.  their room was never used by Meadow before Max came to stay, so it is “shared territory”, not like the living room which was Meadow’s for 9 months before now.  i gathered all of my supplies, including a blanket from the living room.  i put up the baby gate blocking off the doorway, closed my bedroom door and closed both of their pens.  i brought out a second litterbox and a big plate of romaine, plus some new willow toys and the grass ball. 

we spent about an hour and 20 minutes in there.  there were no fights.  Meadow got antsy once when Max would not groom her when she presented, and once more when Max was hogging the veggie plate.  —>  http://www.youtube.com/watch

they did spend time eating hay side by side in the litterbox, and eating from the veggie plate at the same time.  Meadow was grooming him most everytime she was near him, he groomed her on the head a couple times.  at one point they were sitting facing opposite directions in the litterbox, and they were each grooming the others’ back.  i would have left them together longer but i had to get dinner together, and i did not want to leave them alone yet.  i am going to continue with this for the next few days and see how it goes… maybe even increasing their time together. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch

so far, so good.  i am confident that they will bond, and i’m hoping it’s sooner rather than later.  i think they are both really wanting company, and they seem calmer in the other’s presence.

^^^lol! i’m waiting with baited breath. i know it’s kind of unconventional to jump to this point, but i took my cues from their behavior. one of the articles i’ve been reading (and re-reading!) is an HRN bonding article —> http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/articles/bond.shtml

it mentions “only out time” where they only get to play when they are both out, “pile of veggies”, and “forced snuggle”. i’ve been doing a strange combination of all of these, altho they each get separate run-time too.

today we go to the vet together for the first time… so i’m hoping that will go well also.

*whew* ^^^LOL!

you really are the expert… i trust your opinions Markus!

lol…. i’m hoping it won’t come to that. or the gorilla suit. (yes, i reread your thread the other day!)

well, it’s been two full weeks

we went to the vet on Friday, you can read about that here —->  binkybunny.com/Default.aspx    it went very well!

when we got home, Michael wanted to go to the park so we did that.  i only had the bunnies together for about 20 minutes that day, in addition to the vet trip.

Saturday i had to work, and Mike was golfing.  when i got home i did another 30 minutes with them, but then i had to clean up around the house (you know… mommy and wife stuff!)  Mike fixed my vacuum which had a lot of hay and fur stuck in it.  not sure how it got there…    i cleaned up the bunny room and i fixed the xpens so they were together with only one set of bars between the sides.  i watched them in their pens for about an hour to make sure noone was going for anyone else… they seemed fine.

Sunday Mike wanted to go to the driving range, so he asked us to go.  we planned on doing some mini golf afterwards… but we only did 5 holes and it started STORMING!  we got off the course just in time and back to the car, and driving home it was HAILING!  crazy… but at least we got out of there in time!  at home i did another 20 minutes or so with the bunnies.

so it was a pretty uneventful weekend.  yesterday (Sunday) Max was grooming Meadow for a good 30 seconds or so, and when he stopped Meadow inched closer.  he turned away and Mead kind of lunged at him.  i was paying attention but not really, so she didn’t even get a squirt b/c i missed the opportunity.  Max is not running from Meadow anymore.  even if she gets a little bit aggressive, he will back off a couple feet, but he stays pretty close.  maybe he’s trying to assert himself that he’s not just gonna go away?

i think doing a bit less this weekend has been good for me. 

i was starting to lose steam, but now i feel like i can start again with a fresh outlook. 

yesterday, after one hour of out-time, i opened up one of the xpen doors and let them both hop in and out of it. Max was sitting in his litterbox, Mead started eating HIS veggies. they seemed pretty content to be in there together for about ten minutes, then i shooed Meadow out.

alright. they have been gated up in the bunny room all day, both sides of the pens open. they’ve been in and out of each side, and also sleeping next to each other. they’re sharing food, litterboxes and hay.

what is my next step? should i open up the bunny room and let them both venture into “Meadow’s territory” (the living room).

or… combine the pens somehow…

what do you think about this set-up… so it can be closed at night if i feel it’s necessary… but left open during the day…  the little slashes are the doors of course.

and when should i introduce them to the together to rest of the house?

16303965671.bmp

they were sharing the side yesterday.  the door was left open so they could have left at any point but they spent the whole afternoon sleeping together.  sometimes side by side, or at angles.  in this pic they were flopped out on opposite sides.  i don’t think Max could’ve been anymore relaxed…

this afternoon i switched it into the set-up i had posted above: “the modified Markus approach”  lol.  allow Max to demonstrate…

they can either have two separate pens

one larger pen with the door opened betw/ them…  nice jump Max!

for separate runtime (if i feel it’s necessary!) i can just open the left pen door, or move two panels to allow the right pen to be open…

i have not put them together today yet  b/c it took me awhile to set this up and i have a doctor appt this afternoon.  i’ll give it a try a little bit later.  i think i am going to keep this set-up for awhile b/c i like how sturdy it is.  so, you’re recommending i leave them in the xpens for two weeks, or also let them in their room?  i still want them to have somewhat normal playtime…

side note:  i figured out how Max is “eating” so many more veggies than Meadow…  sneaky bun.

at 4 this afternoon, i put them both in the xpens with the door open betw/ them. i had a doctor appt at 5pm and i left them together. i was SCARED! but i got home and everyone and everything looked fine. they’ve been pooping in one litterbox, but there has not been any other territory poops anywhere. so i should just elave them together like that overnight? i could leave my bedroom door open overnight (the pens are only about 12 feet away). does that sound like it would be okay, or should i divide them overnight? (i am a very sound sleeper…)

thank you Knowls.  i am trying.  it’s been about 3 weeks… so i don’t think i’m doing too bad.  i think i’m still more cautious than anything…  there has been absolutely no humping.  at least none i’ve seen.  it’s ridiculous the amount of willow they go thru.  for the first week or so, Max wouldn’t even touch it.  now he’s tearing it apart as quick as Meadow.  i just had to place another huge order…   i give them a lot of greens.  they will finish the big bowl within a few hours or so.  they munch a few leaves… then go away, then come back later.  they scarf the pellets, but i feed them separately, so it’s not a huge deal.  it was funny yesterday b/c Meadow and Max were eating pellets out of the same bowl.  but they kept mashing foreheads trying to get at them…  i put the other pellet bowl next to them but they kept eating out of the same one.

WE SURVIVED THE NIGHT!!!

i am exhausted.

there were a few thumps last night, but i don’t know why.  i was watching tv and i had the door open, so i don’t know if they were in reaction to the tv… or some people were putting off some early fireworks outside… everytime there was a thump, i hopped outta bed and checked on them and they’re sitting there looking at me like… “uh, what?”   so i passed out.

my husband left at 5 for work, and then at 6 am like clockwork… they become the energizer bunnies.  i hear munching hay, flying leaps in and out of the litterbox.  Meadow gnawing on her wood house.  there was this huge racket… bars were banging.  i leap out of bed again (as well as i can “leap” at 6 am) to see who’s killing who… and it’s silly Max trying to dislodge the makeshift hayrack… and he keeps banging it against the bars.  i got back in bed.

my son comes and wakes me up a little bit later.  he says “Max’s ear is broken!”  again, covers fly… i high-jump the bed…  he shows me Max’s ear.  it’s just the little part that was injured when he was a baby.  whew.  leave it to him to not notice until right now…

so day one… and all is well…

that makes sense Markus. i’ll try and give them some privacy… lol.

^^^awww! Maxie! i know, i love his flops… the first time i saw his “dead bunny flop” his eyes were rolled back in his head.

i admit that i had to stand there until i saw a nose twitch… just to make sure.

lol… i had just vacuumed it when i rearranged the pens. it only looks clean for about 15 minutes then it’s a hay explosion…

so far so good.

they’ve been together continuously since tuesday afternoon, so we are approaching the 72-hour mark. there has not been any fighting. i have caught them each grooming the other on several occasions. as i type they are sleeping together under the willow tent. i have let them out twice but only in the bunny room and my bedroom, i baby-gated the doorway to the rest of the house. i have noticed that they seek each other out now. where one goes (usually Meadow) the other follows a few feet after. Meadow was on my bed last night and Max kept periscoping as if he was looking for her. she would jump down and they’d go chasing together back into the bunny room.

i love seeing them interact like this. it warms my heart to see Meadow have a friend, and even tho it’s still in the early stages, i am very confident that things will continue to go well. i’d like to thank everyone who has offered me advice up to this point. it’s helped me so much, i can’t even adequately express my gratitude.

Meadow is (and i think always will be) a mommy and daddy’s girl. she was our everything for 10 months before Max got here, and i don’t think she’s going to ever not be affectionate towards us. i’m hoping that as Max and Meadow’s bond continues to strengthen, Max will realize that we’re good people and follow Mead’s lead. he is still pretty skittish around us, but he’s getting better. earlier today, i walked in the bunny room and Max was flopped and Michael was sitting there petting him. we can’t even pet Meadow when she’s flopped, she’ll bolt straight up as soon as we touch her. so i took that to be a good sign.

^^^the caption for this one is… “AGAIN WITH THE FLASHY BOX!!!  darn woman!  go get us a carrot!”

it really was frustrating and boring at times just sititng there supervising, but 3 weeks total of the actual bonding process was not as bad as i was expecting. tomorrow is one week of lving together, and i was going to let them out together, but i reminded myself to wait another week, just to make sure it sticks.

that is so cute Pam!!! thanks!!!

it’s been a week and a half of living together. today while i was cleaning the bunny room, i decided to re-do their xpens (what is this, the 5th time? lol!) before, you’ll remember i had it where there was still a panel in between (the modified Markus method) but the door was continuously open so both sides were accessible. i had one litterboxes in each opposite corner.

i rearranged so it is now one big rectangle (2 panels by 4 panels) with no divider. i put the two litterboxes together at one side. after a week, i’m planning on phasing out one litterbox and they will have to share at that point.

while i was doing all this pen dragging around and vacuuming, i let them out with the baby gate blocking the kitchen, and my NIC grid fence (2 grids high, 8 grids long) blocking off into the living room. they were allowed to roam the bunny room, the hallway, and about 3 feet into the living room (AKA: Meadow territory). i am going to gradually start letting them into the living room bit by bit.