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Forum BEHAVIOR litter training issues… could use your input!

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    • babybunsmum
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        okay… this is getting a little ridiculous & i’m not sure what i can change to help or if i just need to suck it up.  check it out:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytOB6Dc8ric

        lol.  funny, except she’s constantly marking the dog & the dogs 2 beds and i definitely want to see what changes i could try to help the situation.  a few things about baby bun & our set-up… baby is a 7yr old unspayed lop.  the fact that she’s unspayed i’m sure is a major contributing factor here (hint: SPAY your buns before they’re too old like mine!) and so i know i have to accept hormonal behaviour from her.  but i’m wondering if part of the problem is that she’s got a little too much freedom to roam at the moment and needs to be litter trained.  i’ve never done this with her before since she has always just stayed in her room & used her litter there (and she continues to do so when in her room).

        baby had surgery to remove a mammary mass in mid november ’07 and since she has recovered so well that she roams the whole house as opposed to staying in her bedroom as before.  i’m thrilled about this as i had always tried to bring her into the living room to hang out with me & the dog before but she never stayed.  so i thought part of the problem was that she had all of this extra ‘territory’ to claim.  i made her an enclosure to hang out in which fits in the living room (see below) thanks to learning about NIC enclosures here on bb.  it’s not that big tho and i’m not sure how long a time is okay to keep her in it.

        aside from watching tv time, i also work in my living room so i spend a huge amount of time there (and so, then, does the dog).  i’ve been really sick the last few days (flu… blech) and have slept on the couch so i decided to put baby in this enclosure over night and let her out in the morning when i feed her greens & pellets in her bedroom.  she hangs in her room long enough to eat & then hops back to the living room & cavorts with the dog, peeing on & around him.  i hesitate to put her back in the enclosure since she was in there all night and since i want her to be free to run back to her bedroom & nibble but i don’t think this is helping her litter training.  i could baby-gate her in her room (hate closing the door all together) but i like her to be able to spend time near the dog & i since we’re home anyways.

        alright… so after typing all that out (if you’re still with me… oi) i think my questions are:  how long is too long to confine her in the enclosure shown below?  and what litter training basics am i over-looking here?  i think i just need a new schedule but i’m not sure whats best.  i’ve read litter training stuff here but seem to have a hard time applying it to my specific situation.  thanks for any input!!!

        111475489171.jpg


      • JK
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          Mmmmm that youtube kinda bothers me.  I wonder if the owner thinks it’s cute or what.  Poor dog and what a mess! Sorry I’m not experienced enough with litter training to help you your particular situation.


        • babybunsmum
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            well, i’m the owner & i definitely don’t think it’s cute!  although i am trying to keep a happy face on whilst doing a lot of ‘spot’ cleaning… lol.  i was taping the animals because i thought it was going to be cute playing that was happening and was surprised to see the pee rolling down the dog’s back.  thats why the clip is so sort.  had to run to clean up… hence the reason for my posting here with litter training questions.  50% of the time the dog & rabbit spend together is cuddling / napping and the other 50% is the rabbit using the dog as a jungle gym.  i think she’s in love.  so maybe its less of a litter problem and more of a question of how much can the 2 of them be friends & cuddle buddies?  its so sweet to see them napping together but maybe its not okay to let happen so much?  i’m a little confused  and just want to take the best care of them as possible.  wouldn’t mind a little less pee-soaked laundry & spot cleaning too, but again, i realize that her hormones dictate that some of this is inevidable. 


          • JK
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              I’m sorry!!!! Please forgive me. I thought you were referring to someone else’s youtube!  Now I really feel for you!  Yeah I hear you on the tons of laundry.  I have that going on with Edson who pees in his sleep!!!Between the 3 men in my house and the rabbit it’s ridiculous the amount of laundry I do!  It is cute the jungle gym part.  Now I remember you had a youtube before of the jungle gym…the pee was new!


            • Scarlet_Rose
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                OK grrr I just lost my whole reply!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Well here it is again in short:

                I think there are a couple of possibilities for her behavior, malcontent with the new schedule (Is this going to be the new permanent schedule?), jealousy over Bogart being out more than she is, so reinforcing her top bun status with Bogart by marking him as hers.

                I would suggest getting back with the old schedule or if this is the new schedule, you’ll need to be persistent with her and making the cage bigger would be better if she is spending more time in there.  I would either make it 2 panels deep or shift it to a corner and make an L shape out of it, add toys and chews for destruction.  As for the marking, place a litterbox outside, catch her in the act and correct her by scooting her to the litterbox, soaking up the urine and placing it in the box.  If she persists, confine the area she gets to roam away from Bogart and his things until her litterbox habits are perfect.  Then slowly let her have more area and then slowly more time out with Bogart.  If she marks him and his things again, back into the penned in area she goes.


              • Beka27
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                  i don’t know what to tell you.  i really don’t.  i do have a question for someone more experienced tho…

                  do female unspayed rabbits experience a menopause period like humans do?  would there be a drop in hormones when that time came?


                • babybunsmum
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                    lol… no prob knowltons4!  i’m not surprised there was confusion since i blurted out so much info.  that indicates pretty well the level of confusion going on in my head over what to try to do.  lol.  i can imagine you know better than me about cleaning up pee with edson’s water consumption!  any new discoveries?  i read in a thread somewhere that you were lookng into seeing if there was a relation to his thirst & the amount of pellets he was eating. (too lazy to find the thread so i’ll just ask here )


                  • Scarlet_Rose
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                      Hmm, I imagine that they might, however the risk for mammary and uterine cancer is high they have not been known to live that long. Since they do not have regular ovulation (only after copulation) I am thinking that they don’t have menopause per say but may see a slight decline in hormone levels.


                    • JK
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                        Babybunsmum – No new discoveries BUT 2 days now with no accidents!!!  What I am doing is, which I feel bad about, is picking him up in his deep morning nap sleep and putting him in his litter box and sure enough he goes.  Then he groggily goes back to his bed.  Scarlet Rose – just a quick question here- should I be rewarding him for peeing in his box after I’ve moved him there after he pees? Anyway then I am putting him in his cage for bed earlier than I used to – like 7:30 instead of 10 because I realized that he goes so crazy for his bedtime snack I think he would let loose.  These two things have seemed to work, so far.  Also at some point he used the litter box in the xpen for the FIRST time ever yesterday I think during his morning nap. The pellets – I did increase them from 1/8 cup to 1/4 cup but it’s not making any difference but I think I’ll cut down as I don’t want him to get fat on those.  Also, I’m keeping a water log for the next month to see exactly what he is drinking. Ah, life with a bunny!


                      • babybunsmum
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                          interesting question beka… i wonder if hormones drop with rabbit age?  that would be a nice reprieve for baby… and the poor dog too!

                          scarlet_rose, the old schedule was just that she stayed in her room all the time & the dog & i visited her to keep her company.  i used to read the paper & do the crossword in her room, as well as have little head-pet sessions with her through out the day – all me going into her room because she wouldn’t come out.  she was alway quite comfy zooming around in her room & very occasionally she’d trot down the hall but always run right back to her room.  i have a curtain thing blocking the dog off from going into her room & eating her food, and she can run underneath it. 

                          the new schedule has developed into her running back & forth between the living room & her room while i’m home.  i had to start putting a baby gate up blocking off the fromt part of the house (living room thats not rabbit proofed) over night or when i was out because she’s so happy to spend time there.  this means that she can only run from her room to the kitchen which is rabbit proofed & vinyl floor.

                          i knew i needed a litter in the living room & had started out by soaking up any pee on a paper towel & putting it & any poops in the living room litter.  then i progressed to making that NIC enclosure thinking that i needed to enclose her to limit her roaming until she got used to using the litter.  now she has been using the litter but just not exclusively like she does in her bedroom.   hmm… so maybe i need to confine her to her room over night & during my work time, and give her supervised ‘running’ time when she can go back & forth & i can try to catch her ‘in the act’ to put her in her litter.

                          hadn’t thought about jealousy issues with the dog.  interesting.  i just assumed that wasn’t a prob since he’s always been around & outside her room.  he sleeps in the hall by my bedroom door & hers, and if i woke up in the mddle of the night they’d be lying next to eachother, but she never peed on him then.


                        • Sarita
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                            I think it’s a behavior issue with the dog rather than a litterbox issue too. She’s peeing right on Bogart so I’m thinking it’s a dominance type behavior because she can. I would not want that to continue either – it’s not good for you and it’s not good for Bogart.

                            Initially I might have considered a bladder problem but she’s peeing right on poor Bogart. I think you may have to go back to her old schedule and see if the behavior continues.


                          • babybunsmum
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                              you know sarita… i think you’re right about that.  aside from peeing directly ON him, she has peed all over his beds and my living room area rug and it would make sense to think its because she’s marking what smells like the dog. 

                              my new plan is this… since she’s only in the living room rug when i’m there to supervise i will continue to put pee soaked paper towels in her litter there & clean the spot well with soapy vinegar water.  i’ve managed to catch her a couple of time while peeing to put her in her litter & will keep this up too.  i’m leaving her small living room enclosure as-is and only putting her in lock-down there for short periods of time during the day when i’m in & out briefly and not there to supervise (like when i have to take the dog out for potty). 

                              but also i am discouraging all of her attempts to climb on the dog and not allowing them any time together unsupervised.  if she approaches him but keeps all four on the floor i leave it alone, but as soon as i see her front paws on him i say loudly ‘baby no!’  if she doesn’t respond to this (surprisingly she does mostly) i have a water bottle to use or just get over there to break it up.  i went out to my mom’s for dinner last night & baby gated her in her room separate from the dog, which is what i’ll do from now on over night too instead of just baby gating off the living room.  i think this strategy will work, except i’m fairly certain the living room rug will always be a target.

                              thanks so much for your responses!  it feels good to have a plan of action.  we had settled into normalcy before her surgery but her behaviour has changed so much since then that i wasn’t sure what to do with it!  if anyone has more insight, i welcome it as nothing is written in stone.


                            • Kokaneeandkahlua
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                                I’m so sorry, but that clip just made me burst out laughing (I’m at work, but a casual office so no trouble hehe)

                                My *first* thought is, “Doggie you are now MINE” …I think she is definitely being dominant and territorial as suggested…I think what you are doing sounds good!


                              • Sarita
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                                  That does sound like a good plan Babybunsmom – let us know how it works.

                                  It’s hard to know though why her behavior has changed – very interesting. Maybe the vet might have some insight to that. If you talk to him and he does, I’d be interested to know that too.


                                • babybunsmum
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                                    yeah she’s pretty merciless with poor bogart now… lol.  he’ll shoot me a look every so often that seems like he’s saying ‘do i really have to put up with this?’  so i think he’ll be happy with the no climbing rule. 

                                    i’m also perplexed at how much she has changed since her operation.  considering that her behaviour was the same from when she was wee to about 5 1/2 or 6 yrs old (before the mass even started) and then right up til her surgery.  the only thing i can figure is that taking on trips to the vet, plus fixing her sore, helped her bond to me & thus be more trusting in general?  i’ll def check this out at the next vet visit.


                                  • MooBunnay
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                                      I have heard many many stories about bunnies becoming more trusting of their owners and humans in general after going through an illness, so I am not surprised that her behavior has changed, and that she is feeling more bonded to you. That may be what kicked up her need to “mark” her territory now that she feels you are her bonded “mate.” The rabbit rescue that Sarita and I work at has a rabbit named Scooby that has a similar story, he was very stand offish until he got very sick, and now he’s the most sweet sociable bunny I have ever encountered. Also, one of my bunnies Raymond was extremely skittish until he got sick, and I had to give him Baytril every day, and now he’ll run up to me and ask for pets all the time.


                                    • Gravehearted
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                                        I agree with Sarita, I think it’s about a dominance issue too! Especially since you mentioned she’s peeing on places that sniff like your doggy.
                                        I can tell you from my own experience that bunnies become extremely bonded to their people when they go through medical crisis.


                                      • Scarlet_Rose
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                                          Babybunsmum that’s sounds like a great plan of action! Let us know how it goes!

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                                      Forum BEHAVIOR litter training issues… could use your input!