it took a lil while for my Floppy to learn, he is better about it now that he is neutered.
I am using the corner litter box that has a wire grid so he doesnt get his feet dirty, also
I soaked up some of his urine and i put it in there along with his poos then I put some
litter in there as well, this helped as well. Wire flooring is also bad for bunny feet, solid
floors are better…oh as far as sitting in urine, since they are in training— what i did was
put some litter in the corners that were being peed in as well, or you can try putting in
some sort of bedding in there to help with that…as long as it’s not pine.

Goodluck!

wow.  first off welcome here!

i am unfortunately stumped.  it seems you’ve done everything you can and it’s still not working…?  i hope some of our senior members will have some other ideas to help you out.

you did not expressly say… but i’m guessing since they were rescues (YAY!!!  good for you!) and the fact that you’ve not had a thousand babies… that they are altered.  are they BOTH altered or just one of them?

Question – is it both urine and poops that are the problem? Or is it just urine?

Welcome to Binkybunny! I’m really glad you are looking into this with six months to go, rather then last minute!!

Have you tried gathering up their urine (urine soaked litter or using a papertowel to wipe it up) and putting that in their litter box?

hi alex… welcome  

i’m certainly not the expert on litter training (i’m sure others will be able to offer tips) but i have been attempting to re-litter train my 7yr old 5lb lop named baby.  it seems you’ve tried a lot already but maybe there is some small detail in what has worked for me that would work for you as well? 

my issue is this… my bun has an entire room to herself with a litter & her food in it.  she was mostly litter trained there except more recently she’s been eating more hay & pooping & peeing in her hay box.  also, since she’s had a sugery (removed a cancerous lump that protruded from her belly) she’s much more adventurous and hangs out in the living room where she has ignored her litter.  from what i’ve been reading here about litter training my understanding is that if given too much roam-free area, buns will mark a lot. 

with this in mind i decided to build NIC ‘rabbitats’ for my living room & her bedroom.  the living room one is only for when i am there with her and it is big enough to enclose her entirely.  it has 2 levels… the whole main level is a litter made out of that plastic sign board stuff that i scatter ‘yesterdays news’ litter & hay in.  it also has a water dish.  i did this since i know she likes to nibble on hay & poop at the same time from her bedroom habits.  the upper level has a piece of the sign board for lining & a washable dollar store mat.  she likes to sit up there & it is easy to wipe off / launder the mat (i have alternates to swap when she messes on one.)  the cage is not huge – she still needs run-free time – but its large enough to keep her in for a few hours at time.  i am doing this as much as possible so that she learns this is her spot in theliving room.  so far so good.

i wonder if you could build a large enough NIC enclosure to provide levels for jumping & lounging that are all above a litter?  then you could keep them restricted to the enclosure so that any ‘messes’ happen in or above the litter.  they will be technically litter trained while in the enclosure & if it’s large enough to confine themto it for a good period of time, they should learn to ‘go’ there once their territory is slowly expanded.  you could do this by only allowing them outside the NIC enlcosure into an xpenned area with a sheet to protect the floor at first.

good luck!

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Wow, quite the challenge! You mention you have towels on the floor of their cages – have you tried totally eliminating the towels and just giving them solid floors – you mentioned that they peed on the cat bed too so I’m wondering if eliminating anything like towels or beds in their cage would help too.

OI!! That sounds super frustrating!! I would do what babybunsmom suggested, it sounds like a super idea!

If you can find a textured linoleum you probably wouldn’t have to worry about slip. I have the Leith Condos for some of my rabbits and the linoleum they use is “pebbled” so it’s not slick. I wouldn’t even put grass mats or anything that could suggest – this is a good place to pee just to see if this helps at all.

i’m just curious… why are you unable to have caged animals at the parsonage?  i would think it would be the opposite.

hmmm.  that’s unfortunate.  very often people face opposition when it comes to living arrangements and pets.  i’m not sure what else you would be able to do. you probably couldn’t propose to have them allow it for a probationary period, could you?  would they be able to inspect the place to see that no damage was being done?  i’m also concerned because i wonder if after this long, your rabbits may not be trainable.  it’s not like you haven’t given them every opportunity to learn. 

Hi and welcome Alex! I do have a question, do you place any hay on top of the litter in the litterbox and/or placed their hay bin next to the litterbox? Like the others mentioned, bunnies like to do their business and eat at the same time and this just might encourage them to use the litterbox. Soak a paper towel in the urine and place in the box too. If it really is as bad as you say then another alternative is to line the entire cage bottom with litter boxes then elminate one at a time (the ones they do not go in). Has anything changed with their environment are they getting along well?

So you have a rabbit that consumes a lot of water???? So do I!  I am really interested in talking to you about that. How much do you think he drinks a day?  Mine is drinking about 48 oz/day.  The norm is 4 oz.  I also have had all the tests and like you all the results are not pointing to anything.  I have had Edson about 2 months now and just in the last 2 weeks he has been peeing outside of his cage in his xpen (which is attached to his cage).  I have discovered that he is peeing in his sleep during his naps!  I finally put a litter box next to his bed in the xpen and he wouldn’t get up and use it.  He has NEVER peed in his cage though.  So now during his naps I’ll pick him up and put him in his box and he goes.  And he goes tons like yours.  It is really frustrating and the vet doesn’t know what to do next.  If it wasn’t for the pee issue things would be perfect.  I have to dump his litter box daily because it is so full. What does your vet say?

Interesting.  One vet told me to up his pellets from 1/8 cup to 1/4 cup.  Edson is just under 4 lbs.  He eats a ton of timothy hay and gets greens too, about 1-2 cups.  He goes absolutely insane for his pellets and greens.  Jumps around like a mad man.  He is not fat at all, on the slim side so that’s one reason the vet said to up the pellets to 1/4 cup.  I have since cut back to 1/8 cup as I keep hearing it’s so bad to eat too many pellets.  They are timothy based. Mmmm I wonder if I should up the pellets…thanks for the info.

Were there animals before living where you live now? Sometimes even old animal urine smells can stay down below the carpeting (we humans can’t detect them) and make bunnies urinate over them. Do they urinate somewhere different or around the same general area everytime?

Have you tried doing actual training sessions with them? Do you have an xpen where you can confine them, AND hang out with them? This would be a good way to actually participate in the training – the moment you see them lift their tail, off to the litterbox they go, and try saying the word litterbox over and over every time when you want them to go in.   When I was training my bunnies, they began to know what litterbox meant.  It meant I stopped annoying them if they got into the litterbox.   

Get a few litterboxes to put in the xpen, and be sure clean up any urine outside of the box asap, but putting any urine soaked paper towels that you clean it with  in their litterboxes(uust be sure not to have any cleaner on the paper towels that you put in their boxes) Also, don’t have to put the whole paper towel, otherwise they’ll rip it up and make a mess of it.  Just a teeny bit is needy.  Their noses are powerful enough.  Just continuing to add fresh urine in there when  you wipe it up may help.

Try adding a healthy treat to their box (with hay) like mint and rosemary to encourage them to go in there (be sure to have a piece of urine soak paper towel in there too.) Consistency is important. You should do this every single day.  If they have been persistent in marking whereever all these years, it may take some extra persistance on your part. It can take weeks of intense every day training to get them on the right track. 

Do they get along pretty well? Or do they have scuffles every once in awhile?

This pee thing is starting to get to me too!  I just witnessed Edson jump off his stoop (the cage door supported by a box to his xpen), go to a totally NEW corner in his xpen to pee and let it rip!  I just could not believe it!  His litter box is clean (do it daily) and a lot closer than where he just peed.  This was on the exposed linoleum, not on his bed this time which he has been doing while sleeping.  Why on earth would he do this? This is so frustrating. 2 steps forward, 10 steps backwards!  P.S. This is not marking in his case. Maybe sleep walking peeing!!!

Alex – I didn’t see in your posts if you have been putting the bunny’s hay in the litterbox and hanging their hay rack directly over their litterbox? Also, if they have been routinely peeing and pooping on the cage floor, have you changed the flooring recently? The reason is, that I really think that once bunnies start pooping and peeing on something, they associate it as their litterbox, and it could really help reinforce the litterbox idea if you get brand new flooring ( a new rug or linoleum like previously suggested) but keep the old litterbox, and then just keep cleaning it anytime they have an “accident” – and put the poops back in the litterbox and clean the pee with vinegar. It sounds like they are trainable, because if they go back to the cage to go to the bathroom, they must associate that area with the bathroom, they just need them to not associate the entire cage with the litterbox.

Knowlton – That whole peeing in his sleep, that has me beyond baffled. But as far the rest goes. What kind of litter do you use? Some bunnies don’t like ones with strong scent – like pine. Also, you said you clean it everyday, try not doing that. If when he uses it, he fills it up with pee, then of course, dump most of it, but leave a corner of his pee and poo in the box. Add a healthy treat – does he like mint or rosemary?

I’m totally baffled too!  I use the same litter that Save A Bunny uses – the stove pellets.  I absolutely have to clean it daily because it’s soooo loaded.  I put a very thin layer of pellets and by the next morning they have blown up to the rim with pee.  He’s drinking 40 oz + a day so you can imagine the volume of pee. After the box is cleaned he uses it almost immediately so it’s not a question of needing to retrain him to the box.  I know he "gets" it.  It’s this napping thing I think.  In fact when I picked him up a couple times in his sleep to put him in the box, he peed, and I gave him a treat to reward him.  Jeez this really sounds so ridiculous as I write this!  This morning he was asleep on the stoop, got up and peed in this random place, and went back to the stoop.  However, I picked him up and put him in his litter box and told him "No" and closed the door to his cage.  I don’t yell at him but I do firmly tell him no. I don’t always catch him though but it really seems like it’s during his long morning naps.  Do you think this is the right way to handle this? P.S. I also moved the litter box that was next to his bed  to the random corner since he never used the box in that location anyway!

not to hijack the thread… but knowlton… have you tried using any other kind of litter?  it’s far-fetched… but maybe he’d like a different kind of litter better?  it may not emilminate the sleep-peeing, but at this point, i think it’d be worth a shot to try anything else (as long as it’s safe, of course.)  or… have you tried those litterboxes that have a grate over the top so he’s on the grate, not on the actual litter?  i think some of the people here use those and they like them.  or maybe different shaped litterboxes?  if you use a corner one now, how about a big square one instead… or vice verse.

Alex

Was looking around the site and i noticed this in the photos section.Pretty good idea and might try it myself.Certainly saves a lot of cleaning and may be suited to what you are looking for.

Just and idea.

Heres a link also with some info that might help

http://members.aol.com/bunrabtoo/neatcubs.html

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Alex… knowltons4 has tested Edson for several different things.  i don’t think she tested for diabetes insipidus because her vet said there was no treatment and Edson had already been thru so much.

if you want to take a look at the thread where we were talking about her rabbit, here’s the link.

https://binkybunny.com/Default.aspx?tabid=54&forumid=3&postid=18413&view=topic

it says a lot of what she’s been trying with him and some advice she’s gotten form various sources.

have you ever kept the rabbits separated?  i wonder if your girl is picking up on the habits of the boy.  she may be able to be easily trained if she were on her own.  i’m not saying you should separate them if they’re bonded of course… i would just be interested to know if her habits improved.

Beka – I suppose I could try a different litter but I wonder if the little man would rebel?  The pellets are a bit of pain because with all that pee it turns into sawdust!  What’s the best out there for saturation?  I am using a big rectangular box Alex – Maybe I should up the pellets.  I just don’t think Edson is starving because he’s grazing all day long on timothy hay.  Thanks all of you for your advice and suggestions.  This is why I have become an addict to this site!  Well Edson was tested for just about everything and diabetes insipidus certainly came up BUT the vet told me there is no cure if it is and some of the symptoms were not present for that.  Someone you should talk to is Dana Krempels.  She was referred to me by Binky Bunny. If you go to the thread "My bun peed on my son"  that Beka is referring to you will see her name and link.  She may be of great help to you.  She is a University of Miami biologist and done years of rabbit rescue work and seems to have a lot more knowledge than some of these specialized vets.  You can ask her a question at http://www.allexperts.com. I don’t think 8 oz for 2 rabbits is out of the normal range at all in 24 hrs.  That’s exactly what they should be drinking.  About 4 oz. each.  I’d be thrilled to death if Edson would drink that amount!

I used the stove pellets when I first got my bunnies but then switched to Yesterday’s News which works really well with pee. The kids didn’t notice the switch and the cleaning became much easier

OK I’m going to try it!  Yeah the problem with those stove pellets is that it turns into sawdust!  Of course I bought 3 huge bags…I could donate to Save A Bunny if I like the Yesterday’s News better.  Where do you go for that?  Also what vet do you use?  I’m not thrilled with the Exotic Animal place in San Rafael as they kind of washed their hands of Edson’s problem.  Do you use Dr. Scheentra?

alex… i found this site to be very helpful re: building NIC housing http://www.guineapigcages.com/cubes.htm .  i found the link under >bunny info >cool habitats at the bottom of the page.  there are other links there too which may help you decided what set-up / design is best for your specific situation.  i personally *love* the sign board stuff for a litter pan, but then before i did this i was using a cage with a grate floor & it was a real pain to clean. 

knowltons4… i very recently tried ‘yesterdays news’ for litter (when i switched housing) and i really like it.  baby bun wasn’t too sure about it at first since she’s used to ‘going’ on a grate floor, but i think she’s catching on now.  she dumped her water bowl over & the litter pellets soaked it all up & swelled without disintegrating.  it was easy to dump out into a garbage bag.

Thanks I will get some today.

knowltons – I also really like Yesterday’s News. I use Aspen Supreme now, (as i think that is the best of all) but if part of Edson’s problem is due to the the strong scent then you definitely want to stay away from Aspen Supreme. Keep hold of those wood stove pellets though just in case Yesterday’s News makes no difference. Though, I can tell you that I used pine pellets for years, and when I switched over the Yesterday’s News I was in heaven.

Also, regarding training. It won’t help much if you don’t catch him in the act. You have to catch him as he’s lifting up his tail for him to understand. If he’s already peed, and you say no, and put him in his box, he most likely won’t understand. Now I know it’s impossible to catch him all the time, but if you know his schedule and sort of know when he pees (some do right before they eat) then that will help. Or if you have time, hang out with him for 1/2 each day, and just watch him. Make a call, talk on the phone, whatever, but just be sure you are watching him. If you read a book or on the computer, you may miss your golden opportunity – literally. Gross, I know. sorry, couldn’t resist.

Gee thanks – don’t want to miss that golden opportunity but in his case it’s a clear opportunity!!! I agree I have to catch him in the act which at this point is 50-50.

Yes, I use Dr Scheenstra. She is amazing – spends lots of times with the buns when she does house visits and if you ever (heaven forbid), need to go to the San Rafael ER – I have with Belle – then she works with the vets over there. I can’t recommend her enough.

ps. I get the Yesterdays News from the dreaded PetCo in San Rafeal on 3rd Street. They have started stocking the 30lb bags which are a much better deal. Or if you are in SF next week then the PetCo in Fishermans Wharf is closing down and all the litter is going to be 50% off. Woo hoo!

Great.  Thanks for the info.  I may just call Dr. Scheenstra again. I know she is the best around here but just couldn’t get a quick enough appointment before.

When I got Mr.B he was around 2 years and the owners said that they tried litter training and it wouldn’t happen but when we brought him home (they gave us all of his stuff including 2 corner litter pans) it took us 3 days to potty train him, although he was only peeing in his cage but it was any where in there. What I did was place papertowels under the bedding in the cage and under the litter in the pans. When I went to clean out his cage the next night I looked to see where he was mainly peeing, which was two corners. I washed out everything and then placed the pee paper in the bottom of the litter boxes and clean paper towels in the bottom of the cage again. I kept doing this until I saw no pee marks on the cage paper. It’s to the point now that I he only goes in one corner pan so I took the other out.

With Roxy she’s 2 1/2 months and I placed paper towels in her litter box under litter. that was the only spot with litter in her area and she used that all the time since we got her, well for the pee we’re still working on the poos but we just pick them up and place them in the box too and she’s getting more of the idea. But I was shocked to see he pee in the box coming from a shelter that just contained shredded paper in the whole cage.
But pretty much the placing soaked urine in the litter box and scrubbing spots that they weren’t supposed to go on ( I use vinegar/water to clean their cage where there was pee and soap 1 a week) so they don’t smell their pee in that spot and go there agian.