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Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Lily and Cocoa

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    • Cocoa
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        We got through the summer with no heat problems. They have been doing great but lately Lily hasn’t. She has a vet appointment tomorrow. sometimes she eats and sometimes she has one bite and hops away. she has lost 1 pound. Some days she is pretty lethargic. Any ideas?


      • Bam
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          It could be many things. Tooth problems are common in rabbits. If it’s painful for them to chew/ put food in their mouth they will still be hungry and come hopping for food, but they drop the food or doesn’t take it. A vet should look at the inner teeth with an otoscope. You can’t see the inner teeth without an otoscope.

          Teeth issues are not the only cause for inappetence in rabbits. You can have blood drawn to see how the kidneys and liver functions.


        • Cocoa
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            I hope it isn’t too expensive. Thanks bam


          • joea64
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              My local exotic-animal vet recommends annual blood tests for buns over 2 years old. I don’t have exact birthdates for either one, but I’m pretty sure Panda is over 2 years old now and Fernando will have his 2nd birthday in January, so I had probably better arrange for the tests at their next semiannual checkup in the fall.


            • LittlePuffyTail
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                I hope the vet visit goes well and you figure things out.


              • Cocoa
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                  The vet didn’t see anything wrong. He said less pellets and more veggies and hay


                • Asriel and Bombur
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                    Did the vet confirm she lost weight? Because if she’s lost weight and the vet still said she’s fine, I’d get a second opinion. Did he do blood tests and check her teeth?


                  • Cocoa
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                      Yes he did. He did not do blood tests but he did check her teeth. He thinks Cocoa may be picking on her because Cocoa is a little overweight


                    • kurottabun
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                        The lack of appetite and lethargy don’t make sense if it’s just Cocoa stealing her food though. Might want to do bloodwork just in case.


                      • sarahthegemini
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                          Hmm, I don’t trust your vet’s opinion tbh. A little weight loss isn’t concerning necessarily but 1 pound seems quite significant (that’s almodt 1/2 kg isn’t it?) That coupled with lethargy would worry me. I don’t think Cocoa being a bit greedy would cause such significant weight loss for Lily (but if it did, then they would need separation, bonded bunnies do not stop their friend from eating) or the lethargy. Is Lily clinically underweight now? If so, cutting down on pellets might not be wise.

                          Could you get a 2nd opinion?


                        • Asriel and Bombur
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                            I agree. A good vet would’ve done blood work not just dismiss it as being bullied. Anything with bunnies can turn serious quickly. So honestly I think it’s very lazy and ignorant they didn’t at least try to test for something. When Bombur was diagnosed with EC my vet didn’t brush it off as simply as saying “he’s not litter trained”. She ran tests and treated for different things to be on the safe side.


                          • Cocoa
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                              She was only lethargic one morning, I think that may be because it was so hot. Cocoa is a little pig when it comes to food. I have started feeding them only slightly more than 1/8 a cup in the mornings. Cocoa is a little overweight so they share that, Cocoa eats about 2/3 of it. In the afternoon, I put Lily in the cage but leave Cocoa in the pen. I give Lily extra food so she gets about 1/8 a cup throughout the day. They constantly have hay and I give them veggies throughout the day.


                            • Cocoa
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                                Im going to adjust her diet so she is eating more. If that doesnt make a difference in her weight, I will bring her to a different vet.


                              • Bunny House
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                                  I agree with the others. She needs to see a different rabbit savvy vet because a bunny doesn’t act like that for no reasons and there are a lot of reasons they act like that that are under the surface that need further testing. Maybe an ear infection, EC, start of gi stasis, teeth issues, UTI or some organ issue that is causing her pain to not want to eat. And she would be eating more hay if the other one was eating all the veggies as she would be hungry.


                                • Asriel and Bombur
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                                    I also want to note that Holland lops can weigh as much as 5-5.5 pounds depending on if they are a true or false dwarf. So don’t fall into the breed standard gimmick of 3-4 pounds is what they should weigh, because that is untrue and you could either underfeed or not notice health problems.

                                    A true dwarf will have a very smooshed in face with short ears that lay rather flat. A false dwarf will have more of a point with their faces and their ears will be rather long and not as flat against the head.

                                    even with a standard 1/8 cup of pellets and 2 cups of greens, losing one pounds as a small breed is a significant amount of weight to lose. It is not due to one bunny getting more than the other. When my boys were together Bombur ate more than Asriel and Asriel was still a bit heavier than him, so that really has nothing to do with it. 

                                    I’d also suggest just do 2 non-hay feedings 10-12 hours a part. This encourages hay eating as it should be the bulk of their diet and really is what’s best for them. so do pellets in the am and greens in the pm or whatever way you want to do it. But feeding greens throughout the day almost encourages them to not eat hay because they know they’ll get something tastier if they wait a little. 


                                  • Cocoa
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                                      They are lionhead Holland lop mixes. She has lost this weight over about two months. At first I didn’t really notice because her hair was still pretty fluffy and she was shedding her winter coat so it was hard to tell. They get pellets at about 7:30 am together and separate at 8 pm ish. I move them from the cage to their pen in the morning right before I feed them. I give them veggies then to make it easy to move them and again when they go back in the cage at 8:15. They have hay throughout the day. I haven’t been doing a good job giving two cups of veggies everyday, Im getting back on track with that now though. Lily had a lot of energy day when I walked outside to check on them throughout the day. she gets very excited when I’m holding something then disappointed when she realizes its just a container of water to refill the bottle


                                    • Sofia
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                                        Trust me you probably want a second opinion. I went to the vets once because my bun had lost weight. She told me it was worms. We came back two weeks later to a different vet who told us what it really was. I lost two weeks in which I could’ve saved her. Weight loss isn’t something to be brushed off as there’s so many different possible causes.


                                      • Bunny House
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                                          Loosing weight can make her have a hepatic liver from not eating enough and that can be a death sentence for her.


                                        • Cocoa
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                                            I may have found the cause


                                          • Cocoa
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                                              I saw a black or grey worm today. It looked like it was trying to burrow into her skin. I looked but I couldn’t find it. I have no clue what it was


                                            • Asriel and Bombur
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                                                It could be a warbles. But I’m unsure as to what they really look like. If it is you really should go see a different vet. She needs to be treated


                                              • Cocoa
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                                                  What are warbles


                                                • Bunny House
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                                                    Please take her to a vet, for her sake and her life


                                                  • Cocoa
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                                                      I will


                                                    • LittlePuffyTail
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                                                        Google “Botfly Larvae”. Did it look like any of the pics. Warning: some of the pics that come up are graphic.


                                                      • Cocoa
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                                                          Today we found a very tiny tan worm crawling in her fur. I was able to knock it off and put it in a small container. The pictures are on my moms phone so I will upload them later. When I looked her over for more, I saw an infected spot on her belly. It was hard to see because she is pretty fluffy on her belly. Any ideas?


                                                        • Harley&Thumper
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                                                            It might be fly strike but I think you need to talk to your parents about letting your buns inside. An infection in that area can go downhill very quickly. I would put some neosporin WITHOUT painkilliers on the infection site. A vet visit would also be recommended.


                                                          • Cocoa
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                                                              We dont have Neosporin like that. I will take her to a vet very soon.


                                                            • Harley&Thumper
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                                                                Your parents can’t take you to the local pharmacy? It’s normal neosporin without anything added to it.
                                                                https://www.neosporin.com/products/wound-care/original-antibiotic-ointment.


                                                              • Cocoa
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                                                                  unfortunately not


                                                                • brenttran
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                                                                    The tooth vet is not expensive, and it is quite common for rabbit.


                                                                  • Bam
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                                                                      If you can get Fucidine cream where you live, it’s a bunny safe antibiotic ointment.


                                                                    • Cocoa
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                                                                        I will see if I can find some


                                                                      • Cocoa
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                                                                          My mom has called a ton of places but they all say the heat is causing her to not eat. She does eat, she just doesnt maintain her weight. Her weight is still dropping. My mom talked to someone with a degree in something that I forget. She studies worms pretty much. She said its just a vegetation worm.


                                                                        • Asriel and Bombur
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                                                                            I’m sorry but that’s unacceptable. She needs to see a vet not simply have a phone call. If she’s not maintaining her weight there is something really wrong with her. She really could die. I know your bunnies aren’t as important to your parents as the dog and cat, but they are ultimately their responsibility as you are still a minor. They need to step up or they are responsible for whatever may happen. Unless the lady on the phone saw a picture of these worms, that is not a proper way to handle this. She needs to see a vet first about the weight loss then about the ant bites and whatever else could be going on. Blood tests are the appropriate course of action if it’s not a teeth issue. She could have EC, parasites, or a number of conditions only diagnosable by a blood test. And blood tests aren’t cheap, like bunnies. If you want to find out what’s wrong your pay the money and bring them to the vet. Your parents really should’ve done a lot more research on bunnies before getting them for you. I’m not trying to sound cold, but the situation really isn’t good and really needs to be dealt with appropriately.


                                                                          • Cocoa
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                                                                              The lady on the phone did see a picture of the worm. At the moment I have a bit over $400. I can start selling some of my old stuff which should bring the total to over $100. I have a few other things I can do to bring the total up another $100.


                                                                            • Bunny House
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                                                                                She really needs to go to the vet. Ask them for a payment plan or something.


                                                                              • Cocoa
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                                                                                  She is going to the vet very soon. I can pay for it


                                                                                • Asriel and Bombur
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                                                                                    I’m honestly just curious at this point as to what would happen if one of your bunnies was ever severely disabled and required thousands of dollars of vet care or if one ever had GI stasis and needed to remain in the hospital on sub-q fluids for a day or two which is easily a $2,000 visit. You can’t just forgo proper medical care because you can’t afford it. I know it’s not your fault, but your parents do need to step in as your financial provider.


                                                                                  • Cocoa
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                                                                                      I would borrow money from my parents then pay them back later


                                                                                    • Cocoa
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                                                                                        Im setting up an appointment for the vet today. I may not be able to get my mom to agree that shes sick, but I can at least make sure they get to the vet


                                                                                      • Bunny House
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                                                                                          I agree with A&B, my bun costed $6000 when he had stasis before he died. I really think you need your mom to read up on bunny care and illnesses. your mom doesn’t need to say they are sick, the vet will tell her that they are and the vet should give your mom a run down of very bad sicknesses they can get and how expensive they are to treat so that’s why it’s better to get them in right when they become sick rather than after they have been sick for a while.


                                                                                        • Nutmeg
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                                                                                            I’m sorry everything is so difficult with your parents Cocoa – but you need to start thinking of long term for these bunnies.
                                                                                            You said on the 25th – 5 days ago – that were taking her to the vet. Its now 5 days later and you’ve just made a vet appointment – for when? for them to see them today?

                                                                                            Most Rabbits do not have 5 days to wait to see a vet – they tend to go down hill FAST.

                                                                                            I’m not trying to be mean, as so much of this is out of your control, but I’m worried you will end up a poor dead bunny on your hands when you cant get them to an emergency vet one time because your parents wont help when it is truly serious.

                                                                                            Please keep us posted.


                                                                                          • Asriel and Bombur
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                                                                                              THIS!!! 

                                                                                              I can’t reiterate that enough. 

                                                                                              Almost a year ago Bombur developed severe stasis overnight, a condition called Enterotoxemia. Basically his stasis was so bad that bacteria was leaking from his gut into his bloodstream. I went to bed at 1am and he was perfectly fine. I woke up 4 hours later to feed and he was already NEAR DEATH. We didn’t care about anything in that moment in time. Not about money, or our bosses. We RUSHED him to the emergency vet. We were told when he was admitted that he would’ve been dead had we just given him gas drops and went to work. It was a 2 day vet stay and $3000 gone. 

                                                                                              We don’t mean to beat a dead horse, and we say these things out of a place of caring about what happens to your bunnies. But they really aren’t a wait for a few days and see pet. They don’t get better on their own. They almost always need some type of help. Excuses and bunnies don’t mix. 


                                                                                            • sarahthegemini
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                                                                                                Posted By Cocoa on 8/30/2018 7:33 AM
                                                                                                I would borrow money from my parents then pay them back later

                                                                                                But could you actually do that in practice? You’ve said you’re having to sell your stuff to raise funds for this vet trip. Why haven’t your parents lent you the money this time?


                                                                                              • Sleepy
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                                                                                                  Also going to chime in that things go bad *fast*. I was a teen when we had one of our Rainbow buns, NimNims, but I wasn’t there for when she passed. However, my mom was watching her and when I asked her later what happened to NimNims she said that NimNims wasn’t looking too well

                                                                                                  for days while I was away on a trip but she’d only been thinking of taking her into a vet. Not even booked, thought about, since she was also an uninformed parent.

                                                                                                  Likewise, our last bun, Whisky, he went from recovering to absolutely terrible/everything that could go wrong was going wrong in a day or two. He was recovering from a broken leg and then several things happened all around the same time and kept getting worse over those two days. We got him to both a vet AND an emerg clinic and even that wasn’t enough to save him.

                                                                                                  If something goes really bad, are you able to take your buns immediately to an emerg clinic, for ex? If you go on a trip, can you trust someone to make sure they get what they need?


                                                                                                • Bunny House
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                                                                                                    I don’t want to come across rude, but since you don’t have the financial means yourself to help them, that they might be better in a different home, where they are financially independent and can get the buns care when they need it ASAP.


                                                                                                  • jerseygirl
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                                                                                                      Posted By Cocoa on 8/27/2018 5:40 PM

                                                                                                      Today we found a very tiny tan worm crawling in her fur. I was able to knock it off and put it in a small container. The pictures are on my moms phone so I will upload them later. When I looked her over for more, I saw an infected spot on her belly. It was hard to see because she is pretty fluffy on her belly. Any ideas?

                                                                                                      Are you able to share those photos on here?  It’s difficult to do directly from the phone, so you may have to load them onto computer, resize them, then add them as attachment to a post on here. I’ve sent you a PM if you would like some help with photos. 

                                                                                                      It may help us understand what you are seeing. However, we not vets and cannot diagnose, we can only speculate. 

                                                                                                      You could also email photos to the clinic you took her to last week. They might be willing to take a look. Does that clinic have more then one vet?   2nd consultations at same place are often a reduce fee regardless of which vet you see. 


                                                                                                    • BinkyBunny
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                                                                                                        Posted By Cocoa on 8/30/2018 7:36 AM

                                                                                                        Im setting up an appointment for the vet today. I may not be able to get my mom to agree that shes sick, but I can at least make sure they get to the vet

                                                                                                        This is good.  Keep us updated on what the vet says. 


                                                                                                      • Cocoa
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                                                                                                          That clinic has two vets. They both do dogs and cats but the guy also does exotics. Apparently he doesnt know that much about rabbits, just enough to do surgeries. They decided not to tell us this until they were half way done with her examination. About ten local exotic vets have seen the picture of the worm, I emailed it to them, they said it is a baby inch worm.


                                                                                                        • Cocoa
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                                                                                                            They all also say it is just the heat and we need to set up a fan and provide frozen bottles and cold tiles all day


                                                                                                          • Harley&Thumper
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                                                                                                              What about the ant bites and the infection site? was that addressed?


                                                                                                            • Cocoa
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                                                                                                                Yes they said it looks good and is healing. just a healing scab.


                                                                                                              • Asriel and Bombur
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                                                                                                                  Just enough to do surgeries means that he knows rabbits. If he doesn’t know them he shouldn’t even be performing surgeries. Especially if he’s the idiot that ground down your bunnies teeth. Clearly that’s not even knowledgeable about that.


                                                                                                                • Cocoa
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                                                                                                                    Sorry by surgeries I meant spay and neuter. He said he knows enough to do checkups and stuff for healthy rabbits but not enough to treat sick ones. This is a different one, not the one who filed her teeth


                                                                                                                  • Bunny House
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                                                                                                                      You need to see a different exotic vet because seeing a poor informed one can cost your bunnies life. We can help you find an exotic vet but the rules can only allow us to know so much about your location of where you live.


                                                                                                                    • Cocoa
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                                                                                                                        I have already found a new vet


                                                                                                                      • BinkyBunny
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                                                                                                                          Posted By Cocoa on 8/31/2018 2:21 PM

                                                                                                                          That clinic has two vets. They both do dogs and cats but the guy also does exotics. Apparently he doesnt know that much about rabbits, just enough to do surgeries. They decided not to tell us this until they were half way done with her examination. About ten local exotic vets have seen the picture of the worm, I emailed it to them, they said it is a baby inch worm.

                                                                                                                          Oh. I am sorry you went through all of that to find out that the vet doesn’t know that much about rabbits. It’s good you have already found  new vet.   You have been trying and I  applaud you for that. You also have been good about answering as much as you can.  Everyone is worried about you and your bunny. No one here wants you to lose your bunny and so you are getting a lot of push to get good vet care. I do know it can feel a little overwhelming — even with all of of our best intentions.   

                                                                                                                           I do disagree that re-homing is the solution at this time.  (But I do understand the reasoning behind BH’s suggestion and understand it comes from a caring place).     But at least Cocoa is reaching out, going to the vets, making a new appt, saving money and looking for ways to drum up more funds.   She stated that additional financial needs can be met by borrowing from her parents. Many have had to rely on borrowing when times get tough. And parents would probably be interest free and allow a longer time to pay back/smaller payments.  There is no guarantee another new owner wouldn’t suddenly fall on hard times and have financial troubles who then had little or no resources.   I know many, fellow members included,  that have seriously struggled at some point, jobs lost, health issues that caused serious financial stress. I am sure many of us have dealt with this at some point, or we will at some point — and somehow we get through, find a way, even with vet bills.  I also know of kids who were able to convince their parents over time that their rabbits deserved better.  It can take time.    It sounds like Cocoa is trying to do that and encouragement along with advice can go a long way too.  

                                                                                                                          Cocoa — I am going to PM you because as an admin, I do know your general location and I can offer some vet lists and resources that may be helpful. Even if all ends up fine with this situation, it will be good to find a vet you feel comfortable with. 


                                                                                                                        • Cocoa
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                                                                                                                            The new vet has five stars from all people with rabbits. Dog and cat people say they are also amazing with their pets but its a little overpriced


                                                                                                                          • Bunny House
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                                                                                                                              That’s how my vet is, she is way over priced but you are paying for how good the service is. Too bad buns aren’t like dogs or cats, then it would be a cake walk with vets(most likely)


                                                                                                                            • BinkyBunny
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                                                                                                                                That’s great news!  Good for you for being persistent and finding a rabbit-savvy vet with good reviews from other rabbit people.   

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                                                                                                                            Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Lily and Cocoa