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BINKYBUNNY FORUMS > DIET & CARE > help! Fujoe acting very strange...
Last Post by Lucy at 4/25/2007 3:52 PM (20 Replies)
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User is Offline Lucy
Chicago, IL
379 posts Send Private Message
4/19/2007 6:49 PM
so, something is up with Fujoe. He's been marking outside of the litter box. He has NEVER done this before. I wouldn't have thought it was him, but he was sitting near us on the carpet, jumped away and there were poops..I also found two in the dining room...

When I went to put him in his pen tonight, he acted strange. He kicked really hard when he was in my arms. I put it him, he went to the thrid level and just sat there. The was is a small ball shape. He always stays at the bottom of the cage cause he knows that there will be greens... but he didn't. I thought something was odd, I offered a papya tablet- and he didn't go for it. Fujoe is a HOG- I have NEVER, NEVER seen him refuse a treat. He usally inhales it and keeps asking for more. I don't know what's wrong. My bf picked him up and put him on the floor. He jumped around, we checked his spine, so nothing wrong there. He's just not acting the same. He refuses us. Only an hour before we were petting him...

The only thing that happened today is that him and Patina broke into the closet... they got into the pellets. We don't know how much each of them ate.. but they did eat a bit. I'm wondering if the extra poops are the extra pellets. Could he have a bad tummy ache cause he ate too much???

btw... the pellets are alfafa based (I know, I know. but money was tight this semester because of the graduating show and all..) and the poops he's laying around are solid. No grape things or anything...

Ok..so... help!

User is Offline BB
San Francisco Area
Forum Leader
8674 posts Send Private Message
4/19/2007 10:43 PM

What worries me is he refused his papaya tablet.   Most bunnies will never refuse something sweet even if they're full.

Listen to his stomach - it should always have a minor gurgle when  you put your ear up to his stomach.  Any loud gurgling (where you could hear it if you sat right next to him in a quiet room), or completely quiet is not good.    It can either mean gas or gi stasis.    Either can happen if he's eaten too much rich food.   Alfalfa isn't necessarily horrible for adult bunnies as long as it has enough fiber, but most Alfalfa is still too rich (I know you said you knew that) but if he did just scarf up tooo much then his system could be on overload.

Does his stomach feel bloated at all? Is he grinding his teeth at all or getting more lethargic?

There are things you can do like try to get him to exercise as well as a gentle stomach massage to help move gas and/or to get the tract moving (depending on what the problem is)

Since I have no idea if he's dealing with either or something else, I am hesitant to give further advice except for:

If any of these symptoms are happening I would recommend calling your vet .

Keep us updated!!  Sending happy healthy vibes!


User is Offline Lucy
Chicago, IL
379 posts Send Private Message
4/20/2007 4:41 AM
we're in bad shape right now. he's in the same stage this morning. we're in the bathroom (the warmest room of the house) trying to keep his body temp high. we have an appt with the vet at 10:50 so we're just waiting. he wouldn't come out of his cage this morning... wouldn't eat, hasn't eaten anything. he's bloated. I picked him up and his stomach was big... I knew there was a huge problem when his but was all wet- fur all matted... so now we're just waiting for the apt... this is aweful. he seems

He's also been shedding a lot... but I doubt that has anything to do with this...we've been giving both rabbits papya tablets, so that shouldn't have been a problem..

also... patina has been right by his side this entire time. she's grooming him, it's really sweet.

User is Offline BB
San Francisco Area
Forum Leader
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4/20/2007 7:44 AM

Fujoe - Take him to the vet asap!     Since it's been since last night it can get critical VERY FAST.  Please take him to your vet.  Don't wait until he gets worse, because if you wait until he ends up getting lethargic, then it  may be harder to bring him around.

Papaya tablets don't always solve the problem after, (and there is controversy about whether they help prevent at all - but are just a good treat)   Anyway, what could have happened is because he ate too many carbs which might have slowed down his digestive tract, and then the fact that he's molting may have made it more difficult for him to move the hair through  which could cause a stasis, or he could be suffering from gas/bloat and since it didn't pass in just a few hours, he needs to get to a vet right now.

I'm going to email you as well.   From the sounds of it, it's urgent.     I don't mean to scare you, but rabbits can be fine one day, and the next within hours, they can be fighting for their life.   

Do you have any gas relief drops (for babies) like "Little Tummy's",  Simethicone is a good to thing to have in your bunny emergency kit.  If so give him a a couple of drops.  But either way, because of how long it's been, if his system has stopped for this long and he is becoming dehydrated, he needs vet attention.


User is Offline Lucy
Chicago, IL
379 posts Send Private Message
4/20/2007 7:56 AM
binky- thanks so much for your concern. We just got back from the vet. So, I did get an apt this morning... it was just waiting for two hours that killed me. I went to the RHS page, and did what you said. Start rubbing his belly. On their page the have a good method of doinging it. After rubbing his stomach for a while his tummy started to make REALLY lound sounds. But, he also started to hop around a little and then got lethargic again. I got him to drink a little water before we went to the vet.

So we are treating him for GI statis. He got two injections there, I have to sringe feed him (the vet game me some ox-bow stuff and showed me how to do it), and we are picking up meds for him a little later today.

I brought both Patina and Fujoe to the vet.. but now they are seperated via the vet's request. This way I can monitor his poops.

He has started eating though... it's kind of upseting how fast he got back on his feet He finished a full leaf of romain and has been eating hay. . . I don't know if I need to syringe feed him... I just might leave the stuff out for him... The doctor is giving me a call tomorrow to check up on him, and I'm supposed to call her if there is any type of diaherra...

I can't believe how fast this happened...

User is Offline BB
San Francisco Area
Forum Leader
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4/20/2007 8:09 AM

OH whew!!!  I was so worried for you and Fujoe. You did the right thing and I am sooooo glad you got him to the vet even before I responded.  I was just adding something to my post, that you may not have seen since it looks like we are responding about the same time. I was saying that it would be a good idea to have simethicone in your bunny emergency pack.  It needs to be in infant dose - like "little tummys" gas relief drops.  As well as a pack of critical care.  Critical care can be mixed with extra water to help keep bunny's hydrated when they're sick.   So they didn't  treat him for gas?  Just Gi stasis eh?  Well the gurgling sound can be either.  

Probably after you rubbed his stomach, it helped get it moving again, but it was still dealing with a problem, and so the loud noises started. 

And just note to anyone: that both of these things are good things to have for when you first see a problem, but even after you offer these things, it can't replace needed vet care if things don't look better within three hours of treating.   And if a bunny is already at the lethargic stage, then none of these should be tried first - vet first only.

Well I'm sending healing vibes your fujoe's way!

Keep us updated.

ADDED:   Since they are separated, can you still give them some time out together each day to hang out while you are watching them closely for poopville? Since Patina is not picking on him because he's sick, she seems to be very kind to him, and that can be good for fujoe.   Also, can you pen them right next to each other?  I would hate to see them unbond or have problems from being separated especially because their bond is relatively new.


User is Offline Lucy
Chicago, IL
379 posts Send Private Message
4/20/2007 8:25 AM
There are poops! yay! He totally turned around.. it's amazing. I picked up the bag of apple sticks I have and he started to go nuts! it made me so happy!!!

The vet did give him pain killers if I'm not mistaken. He was grinding his teeth really badly..

I will get the 'little tummys' gas relief drops ... I would have been nice to have them last night.. esp since I knew exactally when it started. But you live and learn...

I just can't believe the difference now... are they always this quick to recover?? or maybe it wasn't a bad case?? I'm so glad I started rubbing his belly- thank you binky!

User is Offline Hedi
Dayton, OH
976 posts Send Private Message
4/20/2007 9:07 AM

Thank god fujoe is better! Quick thinking is probably what saved him.

You did good!

Hope things are much easier on the road to recovery. Nothing like worrying about one of your babies...

Carrera 6yo Mini Rex
Pookie 5yo Dwarf
Cooper 2yo old Mini Lop
Hooper (Hooptie) 2yo Mini Rex

User is Offline BB Administrator
Geekville
BB Webmaster
354 posts Send Private Message
4/20/2007 9:45 AM

EDITED:  THIS IS BINKYBUNNY!!!    I just was doing some admin work on the site and check on your post and didn't want to logout and lose my admin stuff I was doing.

Hi Fujoe,  dealing with bunnies really is a live and learn thing most of the time.   Most of the emergency stuff I really came to know because of my own situations.  Even though I had read stuff, when things actually happen and you use them is when it sticks. 

I didn't want to give too much information last night because I didn't know what it was exactly, just that he hadn't eaten, and since I didn't know for sure if it was gas or gi stasis or both, it was just better to advise you to get to the vet.    So there is no way you would have really known to offer little tummy's then. 

If you do have this problem in the future and you use little tummy's right away, if the problem doesn't go away in a couple of hours, then you still have to go to vet because rabbits can actually go into shock if they are in severe pain.  So really, you did the best thing and took him to the vet.  

I am so glad he's doing better!   Some rabbits recover fast, some don't.  It really depends on how severe it is and/or for how long it has gone on.

Good Goin!!!

 

Fixes Stuff. Thinks about Fixing stuff. Dreams about fixing stuff. Is it fixed yet?

User is Offline osprey
Los Altos, California
2093 posts Send Private Message
4/20/2007 10:04 AM
My one and only experience with stasis happened while we were bunny sitting for someone.  Their bunny Flopsy started getting loose poops all over the place and he was grinding his teeth really loudly.  He also would not eat.   The vet gave me two gut motility drugs and a pain killer.  He was eating again five minutes after his first dose of the medications.  The pain killers work very fast, and that allows the bun to feel hungry and desire food again.  It really is remarkable how quickly they can turn one way or the other.

Did the doc think that the overload of pellets could have brought this on?

Oh, and three cheers to you for noticing that he was not feeling well and taking him to the vet so quickly!  Stasis is serious business.

User is Offline wendyzski
Chicago, IL
1316 posts Send Private Message
4/20/2007 10:14 AM
OMG sooo scary!  I'm so glad he's OK.

Walgreens sells a store-brand simethecone drop for babies.  I got some and some critical care as part of my "bunny first-aid kit" before I brought Pepper home.  Luckily I have never had to use either.  I'd probably be so scared I'd drop the syringe!

User is Offline poopy
Orange County, CA
694 posts Send Private Message
4/20/2007 10:24 AM
Yikes! Glad everything turned out ok. Fujoe is very lucky to have an attentive owner like you to catch the problem before its too late!

Question about GI stasis- can this randomly happen to anybun even if it has tons of fresh hay available?
qwerajsdlfjklwerajioasefklasdfjklasdfiojwe*!*!*$

User is Offline osprey
Los Altos, California
2093 posts Send Private Message
4/20/2007 11:05 AM
Yes Poopy, I think any bun can get stasis given the right circumstances.  From the reading that I have done, and talking to Auntie Heather who has cared for hundreds if not thousands of rabbits over the years, diet is the single most important cause of stasis, particularly insufficient fiber in the diet.  That said, many other things can cause it too, like a diet that is too rich in calories, insufficient exercise, stress, pain from another medical problem, teeth problems, infections, medications, etc.  Stasis is a symptom, not a disease itself.  There is always a root cause, which sometimes cannot be controlled.  We have seen bunnies go into stasis after surgery (most likely from pain and/or pain meds), even though the vast majority of them do not.  Sometimes bunnies that come to us out of the shelters just go into stasis from the stress of being captured and moved around.

As a bunny guardian, you are asking the right questions though.  Diet, exercise, and general happiness are the best ways to keep you bun's system going.  Other than that, vigilance is the best medicine.  Fujoe's guardian knew he was sick because he was acting funny.  Examining the litterbox (fun fun, poopies!) is also important to know that the output looks normal.

I really should set up my own bunny 911 kit......

User is Offline Hedi
Dayton, OH
976 posts Send Private Message
4/20/2007 11:13 AM
Osprey I think your 911 kit would be great!

I am on a hedgehog site because we have hedgies. There is a man on there who has like 15 and everytime someone new shows up he asks them to email him so he can give them a "newbie" packet. That way they get all the general info about the animal without posting all this stuff over and over.
Carrera 6yo Mini Rex
Pookie 5yo Dwarf
Cooper 2yo old Mini Lop
Hooper (Hooptie) 2yo Mini Rex

User is Offline osprey
Los Altos, California
2093 posts Send Private Message
4/20/2007 12:00 PM
Lots of bunny people have an emergency kit, I have just been too lazy to set one up.  I should ask around to see what the indespensible items are.  I know some people even keep the stuff around to do sub Q fluids (kinda like an intravenous drip for a person) but I do not know how to do that procedure.  I really should learn.

User is Offline BB
San Francisco Area
Forum Leader
8674 posts Send Private Message
4/20/2007 3:48 PM

Hey Osprey, and everyone that is interested in putting their own 911 kit.  Here are some links to emergency kit lists for bunnies:

http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/mo...gency.html

http://www.mybunny.org/info/emergency_kit.htm

http://www.ontariorabbits.org/healt...hinfo7.htm

and here is one that is already put together and for sale:

http://www.rabbitresource.org/emergency.html

We had also planned on putting together a basic emergency kit to sell, but we haven't put that on the priority list.  Maybe this is our wakeup call.   :  )


User is Offline Lucy
Chicago, IL
379 posts Send Private Message
4/20/2007 4:07 PM
wow. i'm really glad for all of the support you guys gave me- and for all of the conversation this has caused. I mean, I thought I was doing everything right for Fujoe...and what one bunny eats the other eats too.. and Patina is smaller than him, so it should have effected her also.

what the vet said is that she thinks it's a combination of the molting and too much pellets. She also said it might have been something in the diet that just has been bothering him and the extra pellets yesterday just pushed him overboard. I want to totally stop the pellet intake. It was the end of a batch anyway.

But he's up and running. My bf got to the pharamcy place too late tonight to get his meds.. so that's first thing in the morning. But Fujoe has eaten a good amount of hay, and we put the Oxbow stuff in a bowl (instead of syringe feeding him) and he's been eating a little at a time on his own. But I'm not too worried because he has eated two romain leaves, and hay. I haven't seen him drink water. I just got back from work and I'm going to go and buy some apple juice to add to the water to intice him to drink more.

His poops look good.. there are more in the litter box.. a little misshapen, but nothing bad. There's only one "wet" one. But at least he's passing poops along.

this was the scariest thing I've ever gone through with Fujoe. I broke down twice this morning. I'm kicking myself in the butt for not getting pet insurance though...I'm so glad that he's ok. I'll keep everyone updated with his status!

oh, Patina seems sad that she's not near Fujoe, they'll be okay after this, right? I mean, she was grooming and sitting next to him all morning... came with us to the vet and into the examination room.. I hope they'll be fine

User is Offline x liddo bunny x
Fullerton, California
315 posts Send Private Message
4/20/2007 4:42 PM
awww poor baby. i am creating a panic bunny pack. it is if i see anything different with my buns i will know what to do. i dont know much about buns so i have to put one together. glad fujoe is jup and at it. hope he fully recovers soon, i know he will. hes a very strong boy. =) you must be so releaved too. =)
my name is Carolyn and my precious babies are 2 holland lops named Mochi and Emo and a uhh uhh not sure what he is.... but his name is Moogle

User is Offline Lucy
Chicago, IL
379 posts Send Private Message
4/22/2007 4:49 AM
so he's still okay, but we had to seperate the bunnies. We put them back together and they are going crazy.. they have big boughts of grooming time following mouting and nipping. -- on both ends.. why is this happening??

User is Offline BB
San Francisco Area
Forum Leader
8674 posts Send Private Message
4/22/2007 7:15 PM

Oh, how lowsy!   During the they were separated were they able to interact for a limited time or have they not been together since?

Well, before they were separated they were doing rather well right?  You will need to go through a rebonding period, but since they were getting along, it may not be as miserable as the first time. I just think because they were still newish in their bond, it was fragile and separating them, even though you had to, may have caused some digression.

I'm sorry! I am sending happy bunny bonding vibes your way.

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