Teenage Patton and the choice.

[Barrett]

Hi again!

 

Sooooooooo,.. I go out of town last Saturday and spend the night, coming home mid morning on Sunday. My 4-month-old French Lop didn’t get much time out of his pen on Saturday so he was eager to get out after I got home. 

Not long after he got out, he rewarded me by marking a big wet spot on the carpet upstairs. I took this as a sign that he was ticked off for being in his pen all day Saturday and most of the night.

 

Today, I decided to let him ‘free range’ while I was at work. While I’m sure he appreciated it, he also took the opportunity to lay another big wet spot along with a ton of poo in a spot downstairs just TWO FREAKING FEET from a litterbox!

 

Now I have known for a while that Patton was approaching ‘the age’. I have never neutered a rabbit before in 3 previous rabbits. Of those 3, only ONE showed signs of… um… STRONGLY wanting to procreate.

Because my experience was fine with the other two bunnies (all male), I set 2 lines across which I would have Patton fixed;

1. Lookin’ for love from my children or their toys
2. Peeing out of place.

The first peeing incident (Sunday) could be explained as a bunny with an attitude retaliating. But the second incident (today) tells me that the 2nd criteria has been met.

 

So here I am walking a razor’s edge between having the big guy fixed or not. On one side, I have always heard that neutered bunnies will live longer. On the other, I am DEATHLY afraid that Patton may die as a result of the procedure. I know it happens, and I certainly don’t want to take the decision lightly.

 

How many of you never had your bucks neutered? Was peeing around the house a big problem?

 

How common is it for a bunny to die as a result of the procedure? Does the risk decrease as the bunny gets larger? (As a French Lop, he’s one of the biggies)

 

Weigh in!

[Gina.Jenny]

I’ve gone through waiting for three girl buns and two boys to recover from ops, plus three boy guinea pigs. All eight came through the anaesthetic fine. We nearly lost jenny to hyperthermia after, and I know others have had similar scares, so my first thought is if he does have the op, make sure you keep him warm after, much warmer than usual, as a post op bun can’t keep their body temp up by being active. 

Boy bunnies don’t have the risk of uterine cancers that are the big health gain for girl bunnies, so with boys it is more about behaviour improvement than any health benefits. I currently have six bunnies, 3 boys and 3 girls. Podge is the only one not altered. This is on the advice of 2 different vets, as what need snipping are too deep inside him, and the risk of cutting that deep into his abdomen is too high to be worth taking. He still was easy to successfully bond to one of our girls, Gina, and they have been bonded now for 7 months and are inseparable. He did pee on my new settee a couple of days ago, which was a first. I cleaned it straight away with the vax and vax pet +++, and hope that removed enough of the bunny scent and that it won’t be repeated. I think Podge, like Gina and Jenny, was bought as an Easter baby in 2015, then dumped as a summer teenager. That would make him around 1 yr 9 m, so not really an adolescent thing, more a ‘this settee is mine’

From a different point of thought, will Patton pee in his cage litterbox? Pippi won’t pee indoors during the summer if he can help it, and will hold on til he gets outside. If so, Patton may have had to hold on too long and these accident are a short term reaction to that?

[Barrett]

Posted By Gina.Jenny on 10/25/2016 2:24 AM

From a different point of thought, will Patton pee in his cage litterbox? Pippi won’t pee indoors during the summer if he can help it, and will hold on til he gets outside. If so, Patton may have had to hold on too long and these accident are a short term reaction to that?

Oh yes, Patton pees quite a bit in his cage litterbox. And for that matter, the living room box gets quite a bit of use too. That’s why it seems so strange that he would pee just a couple of feet (LITERALLY) from that box. I took that as a sign of the onset of ‘difficult adolescent behavior’,

 

I forgot to add that while I hold Patton upside down in my arms several times a day (I’m blessed with a bunny that is comfortable in that position!) I have been checking for the appearance of testicles. 

Sure enough, tonight for the first time, I detected a couple of nuggets in that forest of white fur down there. It’s official.

 

That said, I have read that if I do the procedure I shouldn’t do it until he’s about 6 months old. He’s barely 4 months now.

 

Also- for the first time yesterday, I noticed that he has been staining the underside of his tail with his pee and it’s starting to leave a noticeable smell when I hold him.

[Gina.Jenny]

I adopted Mini in August. His age was given as between 2 and 3 yrs and he was already altered. He got the idea of using the litterbox within days, but still does at least one pee a day on the floor. He does this just outside Podge and Gina’s ‘front door’, so I think is a territory thing. Having recently got new carpets fitted, I was not happy for him to pee daily on them, and bought a big pet mat that goes over the area he insists on marking. he is quite happy marking this, so while not ideal, the mat is easy enough to clean, I have a second identical mat to swap while the first gets cleaned etc, and my new carpet is kept safe!

Lots of ppl post here that bunnies like to mark nice soft things, sadly carpets come under this category. Getting Patton altered may well help if this is an adolescent thing, but is no guarantee he won’t pee on the floor after!

As far as I know the procedure can be done anytime once things are fully dropped and visible. Podge’s never did, hence why the vets won’t operate on him. A wet tail is concerning. Wet tails can lead to flystrike, and a very wet tail can put a bun off cleaning him or herself, ditto piggies. Latte, who is a long haired piggy will sit where he goes, and then won’t clean himself as its just too messy to start. I keep that area well trimmed and check if he need a help keeping clean down there too! Warm water on a bit of cotton wool removes the worst, and then buns and piggies are usually happy to finish the job properly themselves. A wet tail and pees on the floor could be a sign of a bladder infection too, a call to the vet might be an idea?

[Alfreds minion]

My bun Alfred improved his toilet habits immediately after neutering, about three weeks ago. He was weeing on everything before, including me. And he’d begun to spray. It was totally unmanageable. He’s now almost totally litter trained, with the exception of going on the bed occasionally. But it’s like 97% better than it was.

A long time ago I had a house bunny called Louis. He was a serious sprayer, usually me. Neutering completely fixed the problem, though I don’t remember how long it took.

Alfred was neutered at nearly 4 months. It seemed to take very little toll upon him.

[Vienna Blue in France]

Henry, 4kg, neuteured leaving one very bruised ball = 2 nights in hosp.
Vets said not uncommon, but rare Henry’s size – it could have been to do with the fact that he is 18 months old already.

He was neuteured so he’d be a calm bunny to bond happily with Zou – the op seems to have sent his hormones into crazy land….
I’ll report back in another 3 weeks !

[BunnyFriends]

I’d suggest neutering. Rabbits vets shouldn’t have high death rate at all, and anyway, females are more likely to as it’s MUCH more invasive a surgery.

I don’t think a bigger rabbit might have more of a chance of not making it – it’s more about age and health. If you think Patton might be unhealthy, you could schedule a check up and then have surgery done. It’s harder when they’re older, but my boy was almost three years old when he got neutered and was perfectly fine.

The recovery is quick with bucks, and while my buck never sprayed, it’s worth not having all the humping FOR SURE!!

(Licorice had an undescended testicle as well, which shortens the lifespan ever more. I don’t think there’s a really accurate way to tell one your own, and while it’s not likely to occur it is possible and surgery fixes that. )

[Azerane]

I got Bandit as a young bunny and had him neutered even though he wasn’t particularly hormonal. He was good with his litter tray though he had only just started circling and honking when we had his op done, so chances are he may have gotten worse. I did it mainly for prevention, I didn’t want him to start spraying. He recovered extremely quickly from his op and was eating like a horse at the vet already when I went to pick him up.

My current pair, male and female both are spayed/neutered obviously to prevent breeding and ease of bonding. I’ve no idea how well he went through his op, but he obviously survived

Desexing bunns is a very common surgery now, as long as you have a rabbit savvy vet you shouldn’t have any problems. If you are terribly worried about the op, you can have pre-op blood work done to check for organ function. Yes there is always a serious risk with any surgery, but as far as surgery goes it’s actually quite minor. In terms of age, 6 months is quite commonly thrown around. For Bandit my vet said he could be done whenever his bits dropped. Being a larger breed, you wouldn’t have any issues having him done now. But it does vary from vet to vet.

Ultimately the decision is up to you. If you never plan to bond him, and he’s well behaved, then as you mentioned there’s really no need to have the surgery done.

[Q8bunny]

My Chewie had le snipsnip as soon as he surprised me with boy toys (I was told by the shelter vet that he was a girl at adoption lol). Largely because he started spraying almost right away. They had his age wrong too we found out after the surgery. He was a tiny little thing but the cacahuetes dropped, so off we went… he recovered very quickly. He’s still very bossy, though…

[Barrett]

Thank you EVERYONE! I am probably gonna have the procedure done but he’s now 4 months and most people talk about 6 months. While I was able to see his testes when holding him last night, I couldn’t identify them tonight.

 

Sounds to me like it’s still a bit early. 

[Azerane]

Rabbits have the ability to retract their testes into their abdomen, so don’t take that to mean they’re not properly dropped yet, it’s possible they were just retracted.

[Barrett]

True, but what about the 4 months thing? Is it not better to wait until 5 or 6 months?

 

FWIW his behaviour was just fine today in terms of not peeing out of the box and such. My major issue at this point is not whether to do it but whether it needs to be now.

 

When I say I saw his testes yesterday, I’m talking about mounds moving unevenly under thick white fur. My memories of my previous bucks were pretty obvious pink bags hanging down there.

[Azerane]

I think it really depends on the vet. I think I had Bandit done at 4 and 1/2 months, my vet was comfortable doing it then. Some vets will require you to wait until 6 months, I’m not sure why, perhaps they want to make sure the rabbit will be a good weight, particularly if it’s a small breed. However it doesn’t need to be done now, it can be done now, but if you want to wait a little while to see how things go, it’s not going to cause any problems whichever way you choose. Plus it gives you more time to think it over and see if his behaviour stays improved or changes again The only time that leaving it can cause problems, is if you leave it for a very long time (such as a year or more) when there are behavioural problems associated with the hormones, when it’s left for too long often these behaviours can become ingrained, despite the removal of the hormones that initially started them the behaviour can persist.

[Barrett]

Well, he peed on the carpet upstairs again last night and even in the kitchen this morning.

 

His testes still aren’t clearly descended, but I’m thinking I may take him in to the vet next week for one of those pre-op checks and start talking to the rabbit doctor about the procedure. I really want to keep him as well-mannered as possible because so far he’s been an absolutely joyful bunny to have in our home. 

 

There’s no ignoring the slipping of his potty manners at this point.

[Author]

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