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Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Rescue bunny – what would you do?

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    • Chelsea
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        Background: We have a wonderful 3 year old neutered male mini lop. He roams free in our house (through some miracle he is not a chewer) and has his own bunny proofed yard he goes out in when the weather is nice and we are home. 

        A few months ago I got a message from an acquaintance asking if I wanted an unneutered male lop. I said no, not wanting to mess up the good situation we have now. I thought nothing more about it, until a week ago I got another message asking me if I would please watch the rabbit while she was on vacation because she had forgotten about him and he was on the back porch in his cage. Horrified, we picked him up and brought him home.

        He is an extremely sweet mini lop of unknown age. He was living in a cage barely big enough for him to turn around in on a diet (as far as I can tell) of pellets, oatmeal and frozen apples. We put him in our new, bunny proofed currently unoccupied chicken house outside as a temporary measure until we can figure out what to do next. I sent the owner a message saying we would take him if she still doesn’t want him, but we haven’t heard back yet. She should return tomorrow. 

        So we have one immediate problem – we don’t want to give him back, but he can’t stay in the chicken coup. We have 5 chicks in our house in a cardboard box currently that are almost big enough to go in the said chicken coup. And I’m not crazy about the idea of an outdoor rabbit. It feels unethical. But on the other hand, we clearly can’t just add an unneutered male to our neutered male. And we have no idea if after neutering him if they will get along or if the new bunny (Charlie) will destroy our house. We also don’t know how old he is and after such a rough start (we would be owner #4) how much longer he has to live.

        I think our first step is to build or buy a outdoor run for him ASAP. But we need to decide on our long term goal. Should we keep him as an outdoor rabbit (knowing we rescued him and he is at least much happier and healthier than he was) or neuter him with the goal of making him an indoor rabbit? The answer to this will determine how nice of an outdoor home we decide to build him. Although I hate to make this part of the consideration, we were not planning on this and do not really have the funds right now to pay $200+ to neuter him, plus the cost of making temporary housing. We could drive an hour to a bunny shelter and either give him up or have him neutered for less, but that seems like that would be hard on him too and a bit wrong. This is of course all assuming the last owner still wants to give him up. I cannot imagine at this point what we will do if she wants him back 

        Thanks for reading this saga. I welcome any thoughts you have.


      • Muchelle
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          Damn… I still wonder why people takes animals just because (not talking about you, obviously, talking about that woman).

          If you don’t know his age, I would have him checked by a vet to see if they can determined an estimated age. This is because if he is too old (or sick or whatever other reason) he will never be eligible for the surgery. I think that is a fundamental piece of information in case that person doesn’t want him back.
          If he is eligible and at the shelter it will cost less, by all means do it. He won’t mind an hour in a car (and he won’t remember the trip back home thanks to the meds).

          If he is used to stay outdoors, I don’t think it would be cruel to keep him outdoors, unless it’s exceptionally hot or cold. For starters you could make something cheap like this http://www.clinicaveterinaria.org/post/7-870005.jpg with a closed off area inside for him to rest safely. Even if it’s small, it’s gonna be bigger than the cage he was in, and he’ll be glad.
          Then in the future you could upgrade it to something else. If it’s possible the enclosure could be made adjacent to the resident bunny’s territory, so that they can sniff each other and decide what to do with themselves (I don’t know much about bonding rabbits, so I’ll leave this to someone more experienced…)

          If you ultimately see that you can’t afford/don’t want him (which is absolutely not to blame!), then you could contact the shelter to find him his forever home while he boards at your place, so that you’re sure he’s not going to be mistreated again.

          What do you think?


        • Chelsea
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            I think you are right about having him checked out by a vet.

            Here’s what I’m leaning towards right now: Bunny proof the chicken yard/orchard area. This means digging a ditch all the way around the perimeter and burying fencing down maybe 6 inches? I’m not really sure, but I’ll try to look it up. It shares one side of the fence with our front yard that our current bunny has access to. That yard was already well fortified with buried fence when we bought the house. Charlie would get free roam of the chicken yard with the chickens (I think this would be okay, but I”m not really sure) and we would build him a nest box just for him to sleep in at night. I don’t know though if this would be adequate protection from predators. We bought an automatic door for the chicken coup that raises and lowers at dawn and dusk automatically, but I don’t know if a bunny would cooperate with something like that. We would decide whether or not to neuter him at a later date after a vet evaluation.

            Anyone know if bunnies can share an area with chickens? If they will go in at night on their own?


          • Vienna Blue in France
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              Hi Chelsea – thanks for your story – Lucky Charlie to find you….
              I think your acquaintance knew very well what she was doing…. you may not hear from her again

              You could have an xpen indoors to prevent him from going where you don’t want him to go and also to stop your resident bun having a territory war with Charlie.

              Or, like Muchelle, I don’t think outdoors would be a problem unless its really hot out, and any size accommodation would be greatly received at this point from a bun coming from a tiny cage.

              If he’s eating and pooping fine then a vets visit is not an emergency.
              I would wait a day or two to see what this acquaintance has to say for herself, and then if Charlie becomes yours then you should take him for a check up visit.

              And then you can send us piccies of your two boys !!


            • Chelsea
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                After doing some research, the idea of making a common area for for both the chickens and bunny to roam is out. It sounds like the odds of it working are higher if you start with baby chickens (which we are) but it is a bad idea with an unneutered male rabbit or if there is a rooster. We don’t think we have a rooster, but sexing chicks is not a perfect science, and they are still too young to know for sure. 

                If bonding him with our current house rabbit doesn’t work out, I think we’ll build a bunny tractor just for him similar to the chicken tractor he is currently living in. Since we have acreage and live in a fairly mild climate this is doable. It’s as good of accommodations as an outdoor bunny could possibly get I think. 

                Edited to add pictures!


              • Muchelle
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                  oh, so you’re keeping him?


                • Chelsea
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                    We haven’t heard anything, and as Vienna Blue said, I doubt we ever will. We are going to wait until Monday and then move forward on having him checked over by a vet and neutered if everything looks good. I’m still really torn about it, because I’m afraid we can’t really afford this right after taking on chickens, but I also can’t stand the thought of giving him back or dropping him off at a shelter. Nobody wants him unneutered.


                  • Vienna Blue in France
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                      Ahhhh lovely piccies. Lucky bunny. Some things just happen in life to make it better…. You’ll make it work
                      Great movable shelter btw !!


                    • Muchelle
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                        He’s so handsome and looks fluffy! btw I absolutely love your chicken tractor thing!


                      • Chelsea
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                          She wants him back


                        • FloppyBunny
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                            Didn’t she not want him in the first place? If she wants him back, tell her about how he needs to be fed and the space requirements. A lot of people simply don’t know. If she really just doesn’t care, you can call the humane shelter. I don’t know how it is where you live, but in my city the humane shelter deals with cases of animal abuse, etc. and are the place to call if you suspect an animal isn’t treated right. It’s unacceptable to forget your rabbit outside before going on a trip. Also, in my city all pets at the shelter are spayed/neutered before being adopted out, and some people who ended up like you with a mistreated rabbit or lost rabbit were offered to have it neutered if they could keep it since they usually don’t have much space. You could talk to them about it.

                            If I were you, I would call the shelter and tell them the situation and see if they recommend bringing in the rabbit or giving it back. Although it’s technically her rabbit, since she forgot it where it would have died if you hadn’t stepped in, it’s a different situation.


                          • FloppyBunny
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                              By the way, my male ended up having to be neutered BECAUSE of the chickens. He never had any unwanted hormonal behaviours until this spring where he kept trying to mate with the chickens and started spraying urine everywhere, so keeping him unneutered and with chickens might not work out.


                            • Chelsea
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                                I talked to every shelter and humane society in our town today. Unfortunately, the local ones do not spay or neuter rabbits and the ones farther away are out of funds or I don’t qualify based on their income requirements. But before she messaged me saying “sorry, my 6 year old daughter is not ready to give him up” I talked to a lady extensively about the legality of the situation. She hadn’t actually left yet when I picked up the rabbit, even though her message made it sound like she had and she was about to leave. Because he was in a cage “sold for rabbits” and was being fed, even if it doesn’t match what I would consider adequate it does not give me grounds to keep him.

                                It is going to be so hard to put him back in that cage and give him back. I think I’ll include a big bag of hay, lots of greens, and print outs from the house rabbit society on food and space requirements for rabbits. Plus information about neutering. Because she is on disability and food stamps (she told me that was why she didn’t have a bigger cage or greens for him), she can get him neutered for $20. If her six year old is really bent on keeping him, she should at least be harvesting grass and dandelions for him every day.

                                Ugh, this makes me feel sick. But I’m not sure what else I can or should do.


                              • Vienna Blue in France
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                                  Ohhh Chelsea, it’s a hard one and I don’t think you really have any choice…. though leaving all the bunny info is a great idea!!
                                  You could explain to her that bunnies in liberty are great too as long as no cables around…… then the cage will just be his bedroom.

                                  My cousin is in charge of an animal feed/materials/gardening shop and they do sell bunny hutches but only the biggest ones. If small ones are there and being sold as bunny hutches then people know no different and think they’re doing good.
                                  I’m afraid my buns up until my first house bunny were in hutches deemed now too small for them.
                                  Education and knowledge is a powerful thing.

                                  If you do really feel in your gut you want to keep him now, try to explain to the 6 year old and that she/he could come round for a stroke and cuddle every now and again.


                                • FloppyBunny
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                                    Vienna has a good idea about offering to the kid to come visit. Otherwise, if you have an extra cage, maybe you could send him back in that? I don’t know how people can be ok with keeping animals in a bad environment.

                                     It will probably be even harder on him now because he got used to your bigger cage. After a day of my 2nd rabbit becoming free range, when I locked her in for 2 minutes she started chewing the cage and snorting in anger.


                                  • Vienna Blue in France
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                                      LOL Floppy Bunny !! My first free ranger ‘Pepsi’ had the run (supervised) of my little flat and was then put in her fenced off corner when I went out or to bed – ooooh the THUMPS at night must have woken the whole of Lyon !!!

                                      We moved to a bunny safe flat where she was no longer fenced in – ‘hooray’.
                                      Then I left France and had to give it back to the ‘farmer’ (my friend’s parents) – ‘booooo’.
                                      But they gave me their solemn promise that Pepsi would die an old lady…. I believed them….


                                    • Love4Bunny
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                                        Chelsea, I think the lady deliberately misled you, and I would go one step further to include “manipulation”. If the lady has not picked him up, I would not return him. Clearly, this woman is doing what is best for herself, and not the rabbit. She’s not a friend or even a close friend. Yes, that’s a harsh thing to say, and I would find it equally difficult to deal with the situation, but I would go so far as to try to locate some other rabbit rescues who would receive him. You could negotiate on your terms based on neglect of the rabbit, but on the basis of this woman “forgetting” her rabbit outside and then lying to you, I’d choose what’s right for the rabbit, and not what the lady wants – disability or no.


                                      • FloppyBunny
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                                          Vienna – They get used to freedom so fast!

                                          Love4Bunny – I agree, don’t drop off the rabbit. If she wants him enough, she can come get it.

                                          Also, in my province, an animal put in too small of a cage is considered animal abuse. Sure, the cage may have been sold for rabbits, but there are 1lbs rabbits and there are 14lbs rabbits. Although they are all too small anyways, she still needs to use common sense to know which cage to get. Some cages sold for rabbits are maybe 2 sq.ft. while the biggest (that I’ve seen) are 4 sq.ft. The rabbit in your pictures seem fairly large, so if he takes up 1 sq. ft. and his food/water/litter takes up the rest, obviously it’s too small even if it was “sold for rabbits”.


                                        • Sleepy
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                                            Any updates on what happened to the bun? Did you end up keeping them or did acquaintance take them back or are they in a shelter?


                                          • Chelsea
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                                              OMG, you guys, I JUST got an email from crazy lady who owns Charlie. It’s been a while since I posted about Charlie because I was so upset by the whole thing, but she took him back in August. We just took in a neutered baby boy bunny from the shelter two weeks ago only because they were overrun with rabbits and desperate to find homes for them. She has decided she doesn’t want Charlie again now. What do we do?!? He’s not neutered, three bunnies is more than we want, we don’t know his health/age status, and I can’t take any more we want him/don’t want him drama. But that poor bunny!!!


                                            • Roberta
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                                                Grab him and get him out of there. Book him in to be neutered and start looking for possible homes or rescue assistance before she changes her mind again. Ask your vet if they can help with rehoming.


                                              • Gina.Jenny
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                                                  Some ppl Grrrrrrr and poor Charlie hope you can come up with some solution for him


                                                • Muchelle
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                                                    Ask to the shelter workers if there is a way she can sign Charlie off to them (that will then pass it to you) or if there’s a way it can be written that she’s giving him up to you. This story has to end, poor Charlie


                                                  • Dface
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                                                      What a horrible horrible story. That poor rabbit lived it’s life on the whim of a 6 year olds interest.
                                                      Im sorry you have to deal with it!
                                                      If you have it in a document (email, text, letter -whatever) that is from her, saying she wants you to take the rabbit-in no uncertain terms, then you have entered a contract that the rabbit is yours ie no-givsies-backsies. Unlike the last time when you were asked to ‘mind him’ while she was away, this is a consenting ‘transfer’ of ‘property.’
                                                      This is actually how a lot of animal transfers go -unwanted puppies offered for free on the internet etc. so you will have grounds to say no if they ever ask for him back. They will have relinquished ownership knowiingly, and as long as that is somewhere in writing there is nothing they can do to take him ever again.

                                                      Once in your care, you may be able to source a new home for him, and at least you’ll know he is safe and happy…or alternatively you could look into expanding your seemingly growing fluffle of rabbits (you did mention previously that you have a bit of space for a garden bun) !

                                                      The anguish of doing right by you and doing right by a poor unfortunate bun is definitley a hard one to get right, especially when you havent planned for three. If he is an elderly bunny, it might not be a bad thing -it means that despite poor living conditions he’s been able to remain perfectly healthy, so *touch wood* he might be a hardy lil guy with low vet fees, and little maintenance work to keep him happy !

                                                      I think even if your plan is to rehome him or even bring him into a charity- you would be better off taking him from her now. She sounds like she has no interest in him, but the effort in actually surrendering him to a shelter herself might be something she shies away from, and I’d worry that if you decline, he will live out his time in the hutch of neglect.
                                                      I know a lot of people who were happy for me to take their pets(or even abandon them), but werent willing to bring them in to a shelter (…because it would be cruel)


                                                    • Dface
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                                                        I actually went through something like this with a hedgehog I got. She was to be abandoned, but a friend intervened, and brought her to me, a few days later the lady wanted money for her. Then she wanted her back, then she wanted the cage back. Then she wanted money for the cage.

                                                        I told her no. And if she wanted to pursue the issue to go to the police.
                                                        She didnt love the hedgehog, and in the end she dropped it, because she didnt want the hassle of even going through the police.
                                                        I had no documents supporting that I had a right to the hedgehog.
                                                        I just was stubborn-sometimes that’s all you have to be with fickle people!!


                                                      • Chelsea
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                                                          Here’s the problem – we’ve talked and talked about it, and we really don’t want a third rabbit. A big part of the reason is we have nowhere to put him. We could put him in our spare bathtub, but we did that for a couple of days last time and the smell was pretty bad because he’s not neutered. And it’s really not enough space or a very nice environment. We don’t have a cage we can put him in, either inside or outside. If it was summer, I could maybe make one. But I do not have time when school is in session. I’m not sure how much it would cost to buy one, but I would imagine it would be a fair amount for one big enough for a 7 lb rabbit. And we really don’t want an outdoor rabbit, or to plop a 3rd unneutered/recently neutered male in a cage in the middle of our current rabbit’s territory.

                                                          So far we have been debating the following options: 1) pick him up and drop him off at the already overcrowded animal shelter 2) pick him up and temporarily house him in our bathroom and try to find a home for him via craigslist or wherever else possible 3) tell her not right now, and offer to post an ad for her or 4) just say I’m sorry we really can’t take him right now but maybe in a month or two when we can build him an outdoor cage.

                                                          I really, really hate this. Nothing seems right, Charlie’s caught in the middle, but I feel like our family has been caught in the middle too. I wish I had the time to pick him up today, take him to the vet, have him neutered if he’s eligible for surgery, and immediately bond him to our current house rabbit. But that just does not seem feasible for many reasons. ARGH.


                                                        • Dface
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                                                            Hermphf..that’s not a fun place to be Chelsea! They dont seem like options I’d like to be faced with at all.

                                                            Does he have a hutch/cage that he’s kept in now? Even if it’s small it might do a turn until you could organise something better or the shelter has calmed down?
                                                            At least he’ll be able to have a better diet(?) and he’ll get a bit more human interaction than he would in the shelter(I cant speak for the shelters where you are but here they arent fabulous places to live)
                                                            Even the idea of a cheap/freebie pen hutch that somone wants to get rid of?(I’ve scrounged several hutches for free both online and in shops)

                                                            It’s hard because technically he is absolutely not your problem and you shouldn’t have to be even thinking these things, but at the same time, you clearly have a heart and feel obliged to try help…


                                                          • BunnyFriends
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                                                              Don’t let that lady keep him. Take him, at least temporarily, and figure it out from there. The poor guy deserves better than that, for sure…


                                                            • Chelsea
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                                                                Here’s the message she sent me, which although frustrating in many ways, was actually quite encouraging in others:

                                                                “[6 year old] and I have been talking for a couple weeks I have double checked with her a few times and she is sure of her decision so if you still want Charlie we think that he would be happier with you guys. She still loves him but we have had him in a wood playpen inside for a while now because we didn’t want to risk him getting lost again but I cant build him something outside and hes being good he doesn’t try to chew on the wood or anything but shes ready to let him go and we know you guys would be able to give him a good home and a lot of love.”

                                                                I do not think I can give him a proper home as a house bunny. We took in Jasper two weeks ago because the shelter was overloaded and she had repeatedly told me there was no way she was giving up Charlie. It at least sounds like at least Charlie has a better living situation now. I of course have no idea what she is feeding him, and have huge doubts about whether she has the financial means to care for another rabbit. Dropping him off a shelter though to be potentially euthanized does not seem like a good solution. I’ve spent the last 30 minutes looking for a cage, and I am not seeing anything available.


                                                              • BunnyFriends
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                                                                  The wooden playpen sounds better than his old cage, so there’s a start! You could ask to keep the playpen and use it temporarily, as it seems your best bet. I wouldn’t leave Charlie with her, and the overcrowded shelter sounds like an even worse option, if euthanasia is possible.

                                                                  If she says no to that, you could find a room in your house and use it temporarily (the door blocking it off). One Silas doesn’t use much, probably. To make to cost cheaper initially you could do this –

                                                                  – Use cardboard boxes for a hidey house.

                                                                  – Use plates for veggies, and bowls for water and pellets. Like, from your set of dishes. Obviously not your best dinner plates, but some littler dishes.

                                                                  – Homemade toys

                                                                  – Old towel for a snugger area for him to rest in

                                                                  For the rest of the basic care, you already have brushes and nail trimmers, food. But some stuff would still need to be bought, like the litterbox…

                                                                   
                                                                  I guess the neuter would just have to be done… but on the bright side, at least it’s not a spay!

                                                                  So yeah, personally I think you should get him, at least temporarily.


                                                                • Chelsea
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                                                                    Asking her for the wooden playpen doesn’t sound like a bad idea. The only issue is Jasper is in the only room Silas doesn’t go in. It’s a three bedroom house, with two tiny bathrooms, and Silas has “nests” in both other bedrooms. It’s true he doesn’t go in the bathrooms, but there really isn’t room in there for anything. Unless we put him in the bathtub 😛 I really don’t know that much about bonding two male bunnies, but it seems like putting an unneutered male in Silas’s territory would be a bad start. The vet doesn’t have any checkup + neutering openings for two weeks (and they don’t have any rehoming ideas either – I asked). I also really do not want to bring a rabbit into our home and then give him away. It just seems like a bad message to send my kids, and it was really hard on them before. Which leaves me with moving him outside or making a 3-way male bond (a 2 + 1 might also work, but only if there is no outright hostility) as the only really viable long term solutions. Giving him a permanent home also is dependent on him being eligible for neutering. He was definitely overweight when we last saw him from being fed exclusively apples, oatmeal and pellets with no exercise. Even if his diet and exercise has improved he is currently with family #4, and his age is unknown.


                                                                  • Odette
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                                                                      I remember when you first posted about Charlie. He has had it too rough.

                                                                      I know you don’t want a temporary solution, but I hope you can find a way to get him out of the current situation. I don’t have any answers– I just wish Charlie and you well.


                                                                    • Love4Bunny
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                                                                        Chelsea, I see your dilemma and I understand what you mean. You want the best for Charlie. Rabbit peeps can neglect themselves and their situations because we tend to have a lot of empathy for mistreated animals. And that can bring undue stress if we aren’t fully prepared to take on another commitment. So I hear ya. You could provide her with contact info for no-kill shelters and rescues. I recently referred one of my friends to several local rescues when she couldn’t keep a stray rabbit she found. She was able to get in touch with a rescue who took the bunny off her hands (she has allergies). I think you should provide Charlie’s owner with info so she can do the right thing by Charlie. She needs to own up to her choices, because people move on with their lives (case and point – your family with Jasper). Whenever I think about acquiring more rescue animals, I remind myself my commitment is to my existing animals.


                                                                      • Chelsea
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                                                                          Thank you! I still haven’t given her an answer because I hate this situation so much. I was desperately hoping we would come up with some housing solution for him or an alternative home, but none has presented itself. I was kicking myself for taking in Jasper when I should have known this would happen, until I found out they still haven’t found homes for his two neutered baby brothers. Which means they will probably euthanize some older less friendly bunnies. Regardless, he is part of our family now and I am not about to give him up.

                                                                          The nearest no-kill bunny shelter is 1.5 hours away, and they have no more capacity. Unfortunately, I think I probably need to just keep reminding myself that I cannot save them all. At this point I feel like the only option I have left is to offer to help her post ads to try and rehome him, and tell her I might be able to take him later if I can build or find a cage.
                                                                          .


                                                                        • MazzyStar
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                                                                            I came across this thread and I’m sorry you’re in this position.
                                                                            You mentioned a while ago that her income qualifies her for the $20 neuter program. I would strongly suggest to her that she use that as an opportunity and have him neutered (if he qualifies health-wise) so that his potential for being adopted increases.
                                                                            A lot of people may not care to take an unneutered male but at least this way it may be easier to find him a home.


                                                                          • Chelsea
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                                                                              I’ve tried this angle repeatedly – I printed out a page listing exactly who to call when she insisted I give him back before, and told her if she scheduled him to be neutered I would call and pay the $20 over the phone. When I asked her again if she would get him neutered yesterday, she sent me a long rambling email listing all the things that were stressing her out and how she had no time and just couldn’t deal with it. So, unfortunately, I’m pretty sure that isn’t going to happen. I’m also fairly certain give her and her daughter’s hay-induced asthma that if he is back inside, he’s back on an awful diet (we gave her an entire bale of hay in July). I’ve considered trying to drive him in for surgery myself, but I’m concerned he may not be even eligible. And I really don’t want to bring him home unless I can find a way to actually keep him. I feel so saddened and stressed by the whole thing 🙁


                                                                            • MazzyStar
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                                                                                Ugh… I hate the position she’s put you in. I don’t have any advice to make this better but I would at least just make posts on Craigslist for her and pray someone takes him.


                                                                              • LittlePuffyTail
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                                                                                  I’m so sorry. I can certainly understand your stress. What a frustrating and terribly irresponsible woman.

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                                                                              Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Rescue bunny – what would you do?