Want to make a guess? Rabbit dead, need to find a cause

[Karla]

Hey

My rabbit died this night, and a diagnosis cannot help him now, but it can make things at bit easier for me. So maybe anyone in here can recognize the symptoms?

He stopped eating and drinking Wednesday and wasn’t moving particularly much. He had a slight head tilt. It somehow seemed as if he wanted to eat, but just couldn’t – if rabbits could feel nausea, I would say he did. Thursday morning he was the same. Wouldn’t move. I took him to the vet, who found nothing wrong with him. He got loxicom (metacam) and a shot to make him hungry. No gas or constipation and his stomach was working just fine. In the evening he started breathing heavily. 

At 2 am I woke up and found him paralysed from his back and down. He was cramping every 4-5 minutes. He had difficulty breathing. I called the vet and we decided that he should die at home without stress, however, death did not come to him that easily. His cramps got worse as well as his breathing, but finally he died at 6 am. 

Vet suggests meningitis, but I don’t recognise the symptoms in regard to paralysis and cramps. Maybe E. Cuniculi but I don’t think it kills that fast. 

 

[jerseygirl]

Oh I’m so sorry. That must have been so hard to see him like that. ***Binky Free Little One***

Have you looked on medirabbit? This page will take you to Differential Diagnosis for Head tilt, Paralysis and Seizures individually.
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/Neurology_main.htm

Do you think you’ll have a necrospy done?

It somehow seemed as if he wanted to eat, but just couldn’t – if rabbits could feel nausea, I would say he did.

Some owners have reported their rabbits suffering from head tilt started to do better after put on a motion sickness, anti-nausea drug. So it’s quite possible they do feel nausea. 

[jerseygirl]

Could he have ingested something outside? Toxic or a parasite from an animal roaming through?

[Karla]

Thanks. I am completely heartbroken

I have been looking at it, but it only suggests things like Hyperkalemia when it’s acute, and although it could be it, I cannot see how he got it. If it is meningitis or e. cuniculi, then I worry about my other rabbits. I don’t want a necropsy…I don’t like the thought of it. I want him to rest in peace. That’s why I am doing this guessing game, it’s the closest I will get to getting an answer to why he died.

Thanks, didn’t know that there was indications that rabbits can in fact feel nausea. I believe I read somewhere that they can’t, but it does make sense though that they can. Now I know that I can try motion sickness drugs, should I ever be in such a situation again.

[Karla]

Posted By jerseygirl on 6/24/2016 11:47 AM

Could he have ingested something outside? Toxic or a parasite from an animal roaming through?

No, I don’t think so. They are in an enclosure, so I know exactly what he can forage. No animals roaming through, except for my own two cats and the occassional birds. I haven’t seen any birds using the bird bath and he never drinks from it anyway. 

[jerseygirl]

It may have been about their inability to vomit that you read about?

What was his name? I think I understand what you’re going through. Trying to find an answer to make sense of it. I tend to do that for a long time after one of my rabbits has gone.

Do you still have Karl and little My?

[jerseygirl]

If you are worried about EC, you could treat the others with panacur to play on the safe side. The thing with that parasite is some will carry it and have zero symptoms, where as others will be affected. I guess it comes down to how well their immune systems keeps it under control.

[jerseygirl]

Just on a different topic, are you aware about the RVHD2 strain in Europe? Has there been any incidents in Denmark? I know it’s definitely been found in UK and it seems Sweden and Finland have had some cases. We’re even affected here in Australia!

There’s a vaccine the UK have imported in from France. It’s only just become available to them.

[Karla]

No, I lost both Karl and My this autumn. Karl got acute pneumonia which was not treated properly by the vet, so it came back 4 weeks after and killed him in a few hours. My was found dead a few weeks later, no warning signs. Then I got another rescue who had severe dental problems. He died after two months (which was predicted by the vet, when she saw his teeth though), so last year was not my year.

I still have Pippi, she has survived 6 friends now. One vet told me that she is killing the others. She may have pasteurellose – but tests have not been conclusive.

His name was Nelson and he was such a sweet lille guy, and I am sorry he had to die this way.

I will order some panacur. better safe than sorry!

[jerseygirl]

Oh you have been through it. Im so sorry!

[Karla]

Posted By jerseygirl on 6/24/2016 12:19 PM

Just on a different topic, are you aware about the RVHD2 strain in Europe? Has there been any incidents in Denmark? I know it’s definitely been found in UK and it seems Sweden and Finland have had some cases. We’re even affected here in Australia!

There’s a vaccine the UK have imported in from France. It’s only just become available to them.

There was a case of VHD on my island two years ago, and a case somewhere else in the country last year. There is no vaccine here. But I am not sure that I would vaccinate either, only if there was an epidemi. I don’t know anything about the vaccine, but in many cases a vaccine contains the live virus, so it’s a risk when you inject it into the body. And I don’t trust that the medical companies test these vaccines thoroughly for side effects because they are “only for animals”. **putting my tin foil hat on**

Have you vaccinated yours?

[Karla]

What about your rabbits, who do you have today?

[Bam]

Hi Karla! I’m so sorry for your losses. I don’t have much to add, e cuniculi is what I’d suspect I think. The active substance in Panacur is fenbendazole, in Sweden it’s sold as Axilur.
I’m in Sweden and I vaccinate my buns yearly against myxo and RVHD1. Esp myxo is so common here that vaccination is a must. There is a new strain of RVHD that we don’t have a vaccine against yet.
I suppose you have more control over rabbit diseases on the Danish islands since they are islands.
Again I’m so sorry about the loss of your rabbits.

[LBJ10]

Sounds like EC to me. Different bunnies are going to react differently. He could have been pretty sick before, but wasn’t really showing outward symptoms. Then it got really bad and everything just went downhill really fast after that.

[jerseygirl]

Posted By Karla on 6/24/2016 12:44 PM
What about your rabbits, who do you have today?

Sorry, I didnt see this before.
I forget who you “know” of my rabbits and who you don’t.
Well there’s Rumball (he’ll be 10 in Nov) and he’s now bonded to Ailís, a big REW girl.
Then there’s TimTim, my single boy.
Potamus (F) a dwarf cross bonded to Gooseman (M) a blue lop.

To your other question, they’re vaccinated for vhd1. Only vaccine we have here. Aus rabbit owners are petitioning to get Myxo and vhd2 vaccine. I must say though, if we get them, I won’t be running out the door to get them vaccinated. Especially with new vaccines. I’d probably wait until I’d know more about how it might affect them.
I’m seeing a lot of UK owners are feeling this way about the new vaccine too.
The one and only vaccine we do have has its own set of problems. There are better alternatives but of course, not available here!

[Azerane]

Oh no, I’m so very sorry for your loss. I’m afraid I really don’t know what the cause of death could have been. Rest in peace, Nelson.

[Karla]

Thank you all – for your kind thoughts (still crying over him, I wish I had him euthanized at 2 am, but I really thought he would be dead within half an hour…at least I held his little head in my hand and stayed with him for the long 4 hours), and for you guesses. I tend to go for E.Cuniculi as well. My vet was just so convinced it was meningitis – but when I asked him about E. Cuniculi, he had never heard about it, so I really shouldn’t listen that much to him (and he is considered one of the rabbit-savvy vets here).

Bam, I had no idea you were in Sweden?! Have you always been?

As for him perhaps having been sick for a longer time, without me knowing, then he had lost 200 grams (10% of his weight) in three months and he had thick white secrete from his eyes, but since he had problems with molar spurs (that he had trimmed two days before he died), I have not made the connection between this and his death. I have been out of the country for 2 months, so other signs may have been there.

[LBJ10]

I’m sorry Karla. I know this must be hard for you.

I suppose anything is possible.With meningitis, paralysis can develop pretty quickly. And, according to PetMD, “signs of dental disease” can be an early symptom. There are typically outward symptoms involving the ears though like a discharge and bulging eardrum. Symptoms can vary based on where the infection/swelling is in the brain. I didn’t think meningitis was very common. It seems EC is more common and paralysis of the legs is more often associated with EC.

[Bam]

Karla, I’ve been in Sweden all my life =)

As LBJ says, meningitis can start as a dental infection or a sinus infection or even an ear-infection that spreads into nearby tissues. The meninges and the brain are, of course, nearby tissues. This can actually happen in humans too, but we have the advantage of being able to tell those around us that we aren’t feeling well. In humans once bacterial menigitis has started it progresses very rapidly with high fever, neck stiffness and mental confusion. The outcome is often not favorable.

But it still could’ve been EC. Many buns carry this parasite and if a bunny gets weakened by an unrelated infection, the EC can grab the opportunity and start to multiply and invade more tissues, typically tissues with a really high blood flow (brain, heart, kidney). EC is associated with hind body paralysis. But EC also weakens the immune defense, so the white discharge from his eyes and the weight loss could have been early effects of EC, there’s no way of telling.

You can have your buns tested for the parasite, but the test is often inconclusive, and even if the rabbits are found to be carrying it, most buns never get sick from it. According to rabbit vet Molly Varga, you can do profylactic treatment with 9 days of fenbendazole every 6 months for EC positive rabbits, but it’s not altogether clear if this will help.

It must have been dreadful for you to witness him die like that, but hopefully he wasn’t mentally aware. He had you near him, that must’ve been comforting. Your voice, your hand.

[LittlePuffyTail]

Karla- I’m so very sorry for the loss of your bunny. I wish I could help put your question to rest.

((((Binky Free))))

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