Help with dog & rabbit: stress to bunny? (Update)

[dogmom]

Update:

Thank you all for your advice! So, apparently I have a very stubborn, single minded Basset and a very mellow bunny.

Dog is not always barking at bunny, but positive re-enforcement NOT working miracles.  We have worked with a trainer with him in the past, and she has said that the age we got him and the lack of training and his innate nature that we need to have realistic expectations of him.  He hears the sound of the baby gate being drawn and bounds up the steps to bark because he know the bunny is coming out to wander around the upstairs.  A couple of times she has wandered over to touch noses with him as he shoves it under the gate.  (I can’t tell if she has not fear or is clueless.)  Then she will hop off to another room.  We take her out in a outside pen area and brought the dog out on a prong collar to have back up control over him, thinking it would help.  Bun was all stretched out mellow with side up against fence, dog went over and started chewing on the fur sticking through the fence!  She just lay there, dog was removed.  I mean do bunnies freeze up?  I would think they would bolt.  She didn’t change breathing or twitching with him trying to get at her.  

There seems to be an aspect of jealousy also, he can ignore her if we are not paying attention to her.  But clearly we can never have them face to face with not barrier, even if he is on a leash.  His prey instinct is clearly to strong to overcome.  The good news is the random barking is not often, so I think we can all live together and not have it be a war zone.  She will never be able to be a completely free range bunny in our home, and I guess I was feeling guilty about that.  But the reality is the shelters are full of bunnies that don’t get adopted for long periods and I think we can provide her with a basic, loving if not 100% bunny friendly home, so I think we can keep her.  It’s been almost a month, so fingers crossed that things will not get worse and hopefully get better.

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Hello, sorry to be barging into the forum as a new rabbit owner.  Our family has adopted a lovely 9 mo Rex from an animal shelter that my daughter fell in love with.  However, the big wild card was our 6 yo rescue Basset Hound we have had for 2 years.  He’s not the brightest dog, and he does chase small rodents outside, but he is fairly lazy.  This is our 4th dog, and we’ve had experience with dogs/cat, hound dog/hamster before.  In our experience it usually mellows out after a week and eventually it all works out.

However, I’m starting to worry this will not work out.  We have our bunny in a large cage up on top of a dresser.  Our Basset spent the first 24 hours barking at the rabbit non-stop unless we dragged him out or put him in the basement.  I would completely separate the two, but our house layout does not support it unless we put the bunny in the basement, which is no life for her.  We’ve got her upstairs and we pull the old baby gate at times, but the dog sleeps with my son, so we can’t do it always. And we’ve already had one incident of the stubborn Basset falling a few steps down the stairs because he was besides himself at the top not being able to get through the baby gate.  The barking has lessened, but still goes on at times and he does his best to jump up to the cage.  (He’s a little short, if I wasn’t so stressed about the situation it would be comical.)  He has gotten his front paws up high enough to sniff the cage, but the bunny is physical safe.  We were planning to move the bunny to a more central area of the house after she got used to us, but that clearly is on hold.

We are working on positive re-enforcement.  Treats for being near the bunny and not barking.  We tried doing a spray bottle of water for negative on the recommendation of someone, all we got was a wet Basset that barked louder.  Here’s my questions that I was hoping some bunny lovers could help me with.

1) How stressful is this to the rabbit? She looks calm, but I realize that she might not show stress.  Sometimes she actually hops on over to the side of the cage he’s barking on.  She’s eating fine, appears healthy.  After the first day she was able to lie down and stretch out, which I figure was a sign of not being 100% on guard.

2) Is there a problem if we keep her too long then return her to the shelter?  I’m willing to give this a lot of adjustment time, but I work nights and at some point I can’t be having the Basset bark at random times day & night with that very loud bark on a regular basis and go on for an hour like he does.  We don’t want to return her, please understand!  She’s lovely and my kids would be heartbroken.  I know it can be problematic with dogs to shuffle around like this, is it the same for rabbits?

Just to be clear, I’m not picturing this wonderful setting of the dog and rabbit sleeping together.  I just want to not have my house become a permanent war zone and to keep the bunny safe.  

[Mikey]

Barking is stressful for rabbits, most of the time but not all of the time. It mainly depends on the bun. They have sensitive ears, so if his barks are loud, it could be hurting the buns ears as well, specially if the barking is close to the bun

Here is what i would do based on my understanding of what you wrote. Bring the cage off the dresser and set it on the floor. Cover half the cage with a blanket or towel. Put your dog on a leash and introduce them like that. Let them both sniff and meet eachother. If the bun hides behind the covered half, take your dog out of the room and shut the door. Pet the bun and let it know that its safe. Try the same thing tomorrow. I would do this until everyone seems happy with one another and your dog stops caring so much about the bunny being there. If that doesnt work after a few weeks/a month, then i would assume your dog shouldnt be around bunnies. Giving the bun back to the shelter would be the best idea for everyone. Good luck!

[Vienna Blue in France]

I’ve just spent 15 mins typing out an answer and I must have pressed too quickly on shift-something and POF, it disappeared – gggrrrrr – but yes to everything Mikey suggests. Control dog on lead and if you have a Cesar-type “tsk” noise to make him know he’s doing something he shouldn’t then use that.

Here is a link to a very enthusiastic and optimistic dog trainer (Zak, I’ve only just discovered him but maybe you know him already) who shows us how to make a dog bark (always a fun party trick) and also how to make him stop…. maybe you can use a version of this…?

YES ! ALWAYS positive reinforcement definitely – such better and happier results for everyone !
Just check the link out and let us know how you get on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fcVPfkbYIM

[Vienna Blue in France]

PS : Jacob the dog in this youtube link is just lovely – and very focused…. 

[Vienna Blue in France]

Did anyone check out Jacob being trained when to bark ?

[Bam]

I just watched it. Very focused dog. Quite patient. My dog Effi would probably don’t want to play that long unless she got a treat. Or rather, I know she wouldn’t. Maybe if this guy trained her she would =) I believe in shaping.

I don’t think you should do water-spraying as a negative. The negative should rather be the lack of a reward.

Shaping is of course not for emergencies.

[Vienna Blue in France]

No water spraying definitely NOT in shaping or teaching – I do admit to using it when neighbouring cats are having a wailing match nose-to-nose in the garden though….

[Deleted User]

I didn’t watch the video… sorry!
Poor bunny – it must be horrifying being barked at and being trapped in a cage.
I hope I don’t sound rude or mean, but I don’t get it? How do you return a pet like a toaster that doesn’t quite toast your bread right? But then again, you shouldn’t keep a living animal that lives in fear and distress every day. How awful. We all only get ONE chance in life, it shouldn’t be a miserable existence.
Even if your dog decides now to be friends, I wonder if your bunny will be up for it? I don’t know?
I personally am NOT into returning a pet – but I wonder if your bunny may find comfort in this? Again, I don’t know….

I’m just terribly sorry….

[Vienna Blue in France]

Hasn’t logged on since – maybe she’s working on the video link…

[SeaTurtleSwims]

If it’s possible to keep cage on the floor and the door closed when you are not home, that will help the bunny feel more comfortable.

I spent a long time making my bunny nice and boring for the beagles, and it took about a month before the bunny ever came off the couch. Now they all run around on the floor together and interact safely.

Practice walking him as close as you can get with the dog calm/underthreshold, maybe that’s not even inside your bedroom but in the hallway outside your room and that’s okay. Reward that calm behavior and ask him to do simple things like sit for treats etc to keep his eyes on you. When he becomes excitable and will no longer focus on you, walk back the way you came until he’s under threshold.You can play this back and forth game (slowly getting closer to the cage without rushing or pushing the dog) for days until the dog becomes comfortable/acclimates to the bunny and learns to keep his cool around the cage because the bunny is no longer novel. It might even be boring,because the cage never goes anywhere and the bunny consistently doesn’t give an excitable reaction to the dog. This game for 3-5 minutes a couple times a day over the course of a couple weeks will help your dog learn how to build up his self control to ignore the bunny by learning over time that the bunny is no big deal.

Your dog doesn’t have to be smart to learn something, you just have to out-wait him. If you can be more patient than your dog, you will eventually accomplish your goal. (Speaking from the person whose beagle took almost a MONTH just to figure out ‘shake’ good god… I’ve met rocks smarter than my dog…)

Once your dog learns how to ignore bunny while IN the cage, there is a new challenge to tackle: Learning how to ignore bunny when you get him OUT of the cage. This is also achievable with patience, consistency and praise :3

It might take weeks or a month or two but if you’re willing to invest the time, that short period of time will make the next 10 years of your life less stressful and more enjoyable

[Vienna Blue in France]

To be faire – there’s a reason why beagles aren’t used in circus tricks or as Guide Dogs for the Blind….

[SeaTurtleSwims]

LOLOL XD

[BinkyBunny]

A few years back we did have a member whose bunny died from being stressed out from their dog barking at it too much. So this is something that needs to be under control soon – and have a fail safe way to prevent the dog from getting in while you are gone. I am also not a fan of returning an animal you made a commitment to, but if the situation is one where the dog can’t be trained/controlled, then your bunny may lack the needed freedom run space and safety for a good life – where another could give the bunny a life that is less stressful. So this is up to you and what you feel you are able to achieve with your dog A trainer or training yourself might be helpful and so keep us updated. It does sound like you do care and want it to work out, I wish you all the best with making a decision that will be best for your bunny.

[dogmom]

Update in first post.

[Vienna Blue in France]

Thanks for the update – You seem to be aware of the dangers and have found a compromise of making a happy home. If bun was outside and could have moved away from the dog’s attention, I’m sure he would have.
My home is not 100% bunny free (she only has the run of the kitchen, but that’s where I am 99% of the time excl sleeping!) so don’t feel bad, it sounds as if you have a chilled bun which is great. And the dog will tire of him if you are consistent with your training. Don’t give up and think that’s the end of the training for the dog, its continuous and one days it may click within him.
Another training tip – Keeping dog on a lead and go towards rabbit, as soon as dog starts getting excited, pulling or barking, say nothing and just turn around and walk back from where you came from. Do again, again, again until he realises he won’t get any near to his destination untl he is calm.

Check this vid out 5:19″- the trainer came out the front door 30 times before the dog realises she should be calm…. no speaking, just body language.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8cPkTh7Y3k

You can almost see the dogs face “here we go again!” when the guy turns around and around and around when the dog pulls….. “come ON man, decide which way you’re going already!!!”

[Author]

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