Bindi and Sterling- 2 cute white buns

[LittlePuffyTail]

Okay, I’m going to keep a journal here. If anyone has any tips or advice please comment!!!

To save time, they will be referred to as “B” and “S” (as in this bonding business is a whole lot of bs…..)

So, I cheated a bit and did the official intro before it was the 2 weeks post neuter. I was just really eager and Sterling didn’t seem to be acting hormonal. I just did a basket intro. They just sort of spent those few minutes smooshed together. Looks like S is grooming B but he’s not. 

Then the following 2 nights I did a quick date on the porch (neutral). Lots and lots of humping from B. And he didn’t stop humping even while he was out alone for run time during the next few days. Lots of buzzing, circling Momma and trying to hump me. I’m assuming B was sensing S’s raging hormones (even though S wasn’t acting hormonal at all). Sort of thought B was going insane. So I decided to wait the full 2 weeks and a few days and try again. 

Originally, S was in an x-pen in the basement. I decided to move him into the rabbit room in a temporary arrangement. I felt bad for him being down there all alone and figured it would be good for them to get used to each other through the bars. When I let Bindi out, left access to Sterling and a few times, they ate hay together. They seem perfectly fine with each other in the rabbit room. Bindi was pretty upset about it the first hour or so but he calmed down. 

Over the weekend, I started the bonding again. Saturday, I did another porch session. There was a lot of humping from B again. S was getting kind of annoyed but overall he was pretty passive and tolerant. Lasted about 10 minutes. 

Sunday, I did a session in at the top of the stairway (neutral). Some humping from B but less than the night before. Some nipping from both buns. 

Tonight (Monday) just finished about a 15 min session. Spent first 5 minutes or so smooshed in a basket. Then to the top of the stairs. There was no humping. A couple of nips from S (who got a spray bottle squirt to the head) but it was mostly B saying “If you don’t groom me, I will bite you”.  He kept presenting his head for grooms, was ignored and then got made and got nippy.  Tomorrow I might try some banana or apple sauce on B’s head.   

One of my concerns right now is how stressed B seems after our sessions. He just lays down all sprawled out and breathes hard. Doesn’t last long but it still bothers me.  Hoping the bonding process won’t take too long as I don’t want him stressed. 

[cinnybun2015]

Ok, I don’t have any advice, just have to say that I am sending ((((((((((((vibes)))))))))))) that they bond quickly! I’m sorry that B seems so stressed. Maybe cut the sessions shorter or attempt to calm him quicker (i.e. assuaging him with banana?) I’ve never bonded buns, so I’m sorry that I don’t have many tips.

[Q8bunny]

As you know, LPT, Chewie refused all other buns he’s met, so I have no advice to give (except maybe try the “don’t rock the boat” technique used by GJ?) but I am sending lots of good ((((((bonding vibes)))))) for your two handsome buns in white.

[Bam]

This must inevitably be kind of tough on B initially, since it’s his house and he’s older. It seems he really wants to tell S that.
As I’ve said before, I never managed to bond my buns, so I can’t offer any useful advice. I just hope they’ll sort out their differences, and do it soon. Gina.Jenny wrote quite a lot about her bonding-adventures earlier in the spring. I hope she’ll come to the thread so you can discuss things.

They look really good together. But I know it’s no use telling them that. Bunnies are not so superficial as to judge by appearances =)

[Vienna Blue in France]

Good luck LPT – I’ll follow with interest – I’m just SO confused over the sizes in your family, LOL

I thought B would be much smaller that S, but in the basket he looks bigger !!!

I suppose, is it better that B is humping S ? And not the other way around ? – Surely that would be even more stressful for B?

Keep going- slowly but surely.

[LittlePuffyTail]

Thanks, guys

Vienna- Yes, that last pic Bindi does look bigger almost. But he’s actually on top of part of Sterling. And Bindi’s size is a lot of fluff too. Makes him look bigger than he is. At vet visit, Sterling was 8.3 lbs (but I’m sure he’s gained since then. He eats like a horse!) and Bindi is a bit under 5lbs.

[Gina.Jenny]

When I bonded Podge and Gina, the main contention seemed to be who would groom who, and who would be top bun, which sounds similar to the situation you have? I went for marathon bonding, tiring, but effective in their case, it took four days and nights to successfully bond them. I don’t know whether that would be less stressful for Bindi? I ended up with the pair of them in a cardboard box, so I could carry them around with me, for the first two days, and they slept apart at night, by the end of the third day, they were sharing a small run, and I slept beside them, and had to intervene maybe half a dozen times during the night, every time because Gina was pestering Podge to groom her, and he was chasing her away. The second night, Gina had given in and groomed Podge, and I didn’t need to intervene, and they’ve been very happily bonded for just over 12 weeks now.

I then tried to bond the two pairs as a foursome, but Jenny wouldn’t share Pippi, or stop nipping Podge or Gina, so they are still twp pairs. As bam says, there are long threads detailing both bonding processes. Good luck with it, whichever method you choose, and calming, de-stressing vibes for Bindi xxx

[Vienna Blue in France]

Sterling is NO way 8.3 lbs… (really?) – then Everly must be a mini person, perfectly formed yet reduced by 75% like a photo !!! He looks huge by her !!!
Or else you’re a very clever perspective photographer…..

OR else… (the obvious solution!) send Everly over here (clearly, with holes in the box!) so I can photgrpah her next to Zou to compare…..

[LittlePuffyTail]

Vienna -Yes, he only weighs 8 something but for his size, he should weigh more. He’s def heavier now than when I first got him. Everly is not tiny. She’s actually quite tall for her age. She’s built tall and thin. 

Gina- I will have to go read your bonding threads. I really need to take some time to read more about what worked for people.    

Tonights session was only a few minutes. B asked for grooms, was denied and got super angry and attacked S. He went right to Sterlings underside and I like panicked thinking he may have done some damage. Thankfully, just some fur pulled but I’m in no mood to deal with such aggression. Had a stressful day (dental work and a grouchy toddler). I’m not the best person to be bonding bunnies as I really don’t handle stress well. I have very serious anxiety. Also dealing with my horse being very lame with the possibility of not improving so it’s all a bit much.

I really want to bond them though as the arrangement in the rabbit room is just temporary. For Sterling to get the space he needs, they really need to be bonded. I’m just surprised to see B being so aggressive.

Les sigh…..oh, well. Tomorrow is a new day.

[MoxieMeadows]

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((VIBES))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I don’t handle stress well either LPT, that is why Moxie is destined to be an only bun. Hopefully Bindi and Sterling will have a quick bonding process and will be life-long friends. Keep us updated! =)

[LongEaredLions]

Sending vibes to not only Sterling and Bindi, but to you as well (and your horsey!). (((((Calming vibes)))))
I do not handle bonding well at all either. I have anxiety too and it freaks me out to the point of tears, etc. So you are definetly not alone in that, LOL. I always try to remember that they will eventually bond and it is for their own good…

[Bam]

Sending many vibes for your horse! And for you, and the boys.

From my limited experience with trying to bond Bam and Yohio, I remember that Bam was the most aggressive. And that is so unlike him, Yohio is the feisty bunny with a bunnitude. Bam was really bad, but then Yohio was a young male (albeit neutered) intruding into his territory. I never saw even the slightest attempt at demanding pets though, so it seems your buns are at least trying to communicate. Mine just did a lot of really infuriated backwards humping, and I couldn’t let them keep that up of course.

[Vienna Blue in France]

LPT – imagine your own words are one of someone else and it is you who is giving helping words of advice…
You know you would say one step at a time, don’t expect miracles and it will be worth it in the end…. keep on in there…. one tiny step at a time. xx

[LittlePuffyTail]

Thanks, everyone  

Tonight was 15 to 20 minutes in the tub. They had their heads together pretty much the whole time with me petting their heads, trying to relax them. All was well until I took my hands off them. Then Bindi started stomping and humping, and Sterling got nippy. Now Bindi is a mess because I tried putting applesauce on his head for Sterling to groom him but no go. I just don’t think S is the grooming type. Too bad because I was thinking how great it would be for B to have a buddy to help keep him clean. Oh, well. Maybe if they “fall in love”.

What’s the deal with stomping during the bonding sessions? B has been doing that a lot lately.

[Vienna Blue in France]

Zou does that when the cat is near – I stroke both their heads and all is fine and then I let go. Zou comes out of what seems a mini trance (you can almost see her shake her head & close her eyes for things to come back into focus!!) and then go after the cat….!! ^^

Can’t help you with the stomping – I only know mine have done it when not happy – having a tantrum – or danger…

[LittlePuffyTail]

Tonight was almost an exact copy of last night, except no stomping. The look so sweet and relaxed while I’m petting, when I take my hands off B humps and he bites Sterling’s back while humping, so obviously S gets upset. Then for the next couple of minutes, S is just trying to get B back by biting him.

Right now B is out for run time and I stuck S in B’s condo.

For those of you who have bonded successfully, did you do the cage/litter box swapping?

[Sleepy]

Have a newly bonded pair. I didn’t do cage swap but I did a lot of material swapping both pre and during bonding. I started with the plushie method of giving the pair each a plushie friend, rubbed each plush over the bun, and then swapping the plushies so the buns could get used to the other buns’ scent in their area (it also seemed to encourage the two to groom the plush, too). Then gradually swapped different things like food/water bowls and toys and litterboxes back and forth every two days.

I found it useful, as it got them used to sharing and living with each other’s scent until they were at a stage they could be with each other for extended periods of time.

[LongEaredLions]

I think I swapped cages once-don’t know if it helped at all, though the cages were pretty close together so they could see and smell each other anyways. (((((more easy bonding vibes)))))

[Gina.Jenny]

I swapped the two pairs of bunnies between halves of the dining room when trying to bond them as a four, but no matter what I did, Jenny refused to accept the others, or share Pippi. When bonding Podge and Gina, I knew we were there when Gina didn’t chase Podge away when he sat on her favourite blankey. I was confident if she was happy to share blankey, she would happily share everything else, which is what happened.

[Vienna Blue in France]

I spose, in a way, it is better that B is humping S rather than the other way round or you’d feel guilty about putting B through that…
This way is problably the better of the two possibilities – now they just have to get used to each other.
It’ll happen LPT – one step at a time

[Q8bunny]

Sending (((friendly white bunnies))) vibes.

[LittlePuffyTail]

Bonding is on hold right now. Bindi is not well. I made a post in Diet & Care.

[LittlePuffyTail]

So I decided to slowly start bonding again now that B is feeling better. Last night I put them in the basket and we sat on the backyard swing. I wasn’t swinging them but they could feel the movement so were kinda like “WTH” and didn’t really do much for like 20 minutes. 

Tonight, same thing. Basket on the swing then took them out and just sat them on the swing. They were find on the swing for like 15 minutes. Then I was bringing them back in and some survey guy stopped me to talk so I put them on the porch. They hopped out of the basket so I just let them sit on the porch for a few minutes. They just ran around for a few minutes until B started the humping/back biting which ticked S off. Put them back in the basket and brought them in. I know they will be good friends if B would just knock it off. 

  

[cinnybun2015]

It sure sounds like they’ll be great friends, LPT. I’m sorry about Bindi… the stress-bonding technique seems good, yes? Sending you luck for quick bonding!

[Q8bunny]

Robbun Hood is known for his bravado and posturing… does it surprise you that he’s hassling Sterling?

[Vienna Blue in France]

AHHHHH it’ll come… xx

[LittlePuffyTail]

So haven’t been updating. We had a couple more porch sessions, had to skip last night because I just didn’t have time. Mostly uneventful. They started out well tonight just exploring and ignoring. Then the groom demands by B started. Then both started nipping each other.

Any recommendations welcome. Should I try lengthening my sessions? Trying more than 1 per day? Tonight we only did 15 minutes or so. I didn’t want things to get more aggressive.

[Sleepy]

It might be worth increasing sessions a bit. I found that with our buns, even if things were a little rough at the start, if they got past the first 10-25 minutes and had time to acclimate to each other it helped smooth over most of the rest of the session.

It also depends on how bad you think the nipping is. With ours, a little nipping was okay since no fur was being pulled and they mostly felt like they were communicating through it. If their being too aggressive with it, maybe try two short sessions a day instead of a longer one.

[LittlePuffyTail]

Thanks. I will try a longer session tonight

The nipping wasn’t too bad. I’m just kind of a wuss bonder. I don’t want my little old man to get hurt or stressed out.

[Bam]

From what I’ve read, a little bit of nipping has to be accepted, even some fur-pulling. Just recently read a text where it said to separate if the buns come together like a hissing, kicking ball. (That’s exactly how Bam and Yohio looked when they weren’t humping each other backwards.) But minor scuffles need to be accepted.

Don’t know if you’ve tried scattering some food around, it’s supposed to be good if they eat when they’re together.

[LittlePuffyTail]

Thanks, bam. I’ve heard mixed things about food. Some say it can cause them to be territorial. And I know my buns both LOVE food. They have, on occasion, eaten hay together side by side with cage bars between them.

I know some nipping is normal and I do feel like I’m overprotective. I’m just worried for my little B.

[MimzMum]

Well I’ve missed out on a lot again! I’ve popped in here a few times to see that you brought home Sterling, and congratulations! But I am sorry to see that the bonding is becoming lengthy.
I wish I had some suggestions for you to make this easier, but I’ve never been able to fully bond my three and to date they are still all separate bunnies, which I didn’t want for them. But I’ll add some “happy buddy” vibes for your boys and hope that eventually (and sooner rather than later) they get it together! (((Hugs))) xx

[Sleepy]

If you’re worried about what you should and shouldn’t allow, the bunnychick has a nice guideline here under point 2: thebunnychick.com/2013/11/19/7-ways-hurting-rabbits-chances-bonding/

It’s not a perfect list (and since B’s older, don’t know what’s better or not) but I found it a useful guideline when figuring out when to pull the sprayer on the buns.

[Azerane]

I’m glad you’ve managed to resume bonding. It sounds like things are going pretty well, as the others have said, some nipping is to be expected and it’s only early days yet for their proper bonding. I feel like they’re going to get on great.

[Vienna Blue in France]

LPT – I’m sorry, but I don’t have anything useful to say…. (as per usual I know, but atleast I try to bluff… :whistlling: )
But as Azerane, I’m pozziewozzie things are going to be just fine!

Keep calm and send calm and positive vibes to your little white soldiers when you’re around them. They’ll sense if you are stressing….

[LittlePuffyTail]

Thanks, guys!

Hi, Mimz!!!!! And thanks for the vibes!

I think it’s actually me that is the setback in the bonding to be honest. I need to let them work things out and stop being such a worry wart. It’s hard though, when they are your babies. I have to get a new spray bottle. I had one but then I needed it for something else. Not sure it really helped much but I did like some of the suggestion from the Bunny Chick.

[Dee]

Hi LPT, I’ve been reading your thread and wanted to chime in with some more encouragement ☺. It sounds like they are doing pretty well, even with the humping issue. The fact that they haven’t tried to actually fight is great. I freak out at the slightest hint of aggression in my buns, so I understand the stress involved. I’m currently bonding bunnies too- find myself putting it off for fear of something bad happening, although they have been good so far. Not through gates though- oddly enough, if a fence is between them, they act like enemies. Weird little things.
Hang in there- it’ll happen!

[LittlePuffyTail]

Thanks a lot, Dee

Last night’s porch session went really well. 20 minutes or so and uneventful. I tried this morning as I wanted to do 2 sessions today. They made out well for the first little while and then scuffle! Not sure who actually started it but Bindi clamped on to Sterling’s shoulder and wouldn’t let go. I literally had to prey his mouth of Sterling. I didn’t want to end on that note so I just let them have a few minutes after that and then ended it. Sterling is okay. Bindi’s bite just broke the skin a little. Hoping there is not going to be hard feelings. Tonight, I will start them out on the patio swing as that stresses them a bit, before moving to the porch.

Why do they have to be such stinkers???

[Vienna Blue in France]

Oh bum – well, it’s a well known progression ladder : 2 steps forward and one back – sometimes two back – you just have to hold out for the days when it’s two forward and none back….

[LittlePuffyTail]

So…..Mr. B is really being an aggressive little “explicitive”. Last night, I put him in the laundry basket and then went to get Sterling. I put them in the basket to carry them outside. The second I settled Sterling in the basket, Bindi bit him again. Clamped on right on his bum. I had to wrench him off. Poor S……He looked so confused. Honestly just feel like giving up at this point….I really want them bonded, they would be happier I think with much more free roam time but I don’t want any bunny to get hurt. I’m going to take a few days off, try again on the weekend and then we will see. I know I should be more aggressive in my bonding but I’m finding it impossible to risk their safety and Bindi’s mental well-being.

[Vienna Blue in France]

If it’s anything like putting 2 dogs in a car – one family dog and a visiting dog – you should always put the visiting dog in the car first – because the home dog could get ‘territorial’ over ‘his’ car when the visitor tries getting in…. could that be the same with buns and a laundry basket….? Pop Sterling in first.

LPT Do you not have a bunny whisperer anywhere near – a boarder who bonds rabbits maybe…?
It might be worth the extra pennies… you’re as qualified as any bunny-bonder, but when it comes to one’s own children…

[LittlePuffyTail]

You’ve got a point about the basket. Common sense, really. I should have done that and will in the future.

There is no bonding help that I know of anywhere nearby. The closes rabbit rescue is about a 3 hour drive and I don’t think they offer boarding/bonding. And I could never have my buns that far away from me.

I’m trying not to get upset about it. Worse case scenario, they will be separate with a bunny neighbor. Bindi and Olivia cohabited peacefully for years like that.

[Hopper]

Joined in a little late but read it all I *sadly* have no bonding advice as Hopper is my first bun. Sending (((((stress-relieving vibes)))) ((((calming vibes)))) ((((healing vibes for horse))))

[Vienna Blue in France]

We like “worst case scenarios that are livable” !
So, now you know you’ve got that in your back pocket, just in case, as Jersey would say (or Az…) “No worries mate !”

[LittlePuffyTail]

Wow, already on this thread’s 3rd page and made zero progress at all. Pretty depressing.

So take 3 tonight. We took a break due to Bindi biting Sterling twice in one day. I put them in the stairway which is 100% neutral. They were pretty freaked out by it and just spent the whole 15 minutes with their heads smooshed together. At least no biting.

[Sleepy]

That’s a small sign of progress at least! Hopefully them in new pure neutral ground well endear different reactions.

[jerseygirl]

Every time I see Bindi in that costume in your avatar, I think he should wear it during bonding sessions for added protection. But it sounds as if Sterling needs protection at the moment. 

Maybe some chain mail?

The lops don’t seem to be able to bite as easily as the pointy nose rabbits. Is he only getting fur?

There is truth to what VB said about the order they go in the basket. It reminded me about when I bonded Jersey and Rumball, many moons ago. I want to find my old thread now. I think she reacted similar to Bindi when she saw my carrying Rumball to the neutral ground aka bath tub. 

[LittlePuffyTail]

Haha, Jersey, cute!

Bindi usually gets just fur but this past time he actually bite through the skin and left big teeth marks. Wasn’t bleeding but Sterling now has 2 big scabs. One of his shoulder and one on his bum.

[Q8bunny]

I thought I saw a mark in the pictures you posted the other day…

Bindi’s been watching too much Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Or perhaps Hotel Transylvania

[LittlePuffyTail]

Officially done with bonding. This bite was meant for Sterling….

Maybe if I had more experience bonding and was willing to really stress my buns, it would be successful but we are not having any success. Before this wound, they were getting along well for like 20 minutes……

I’m bummed they won’t be bonded buddies but at least they have the company of each other in the rabbit room. 

[Q8bunny]

I’m sorry, LPT. (That looks painful… ouch!)

Maybe with time, after being flat mates for a while with zero pressure to get along, Bindi will come to see Sterling as we do.
I understand your motives for stopping right now – been there with Chewie.

[Azerane]

Yeouch! That looks super painful. I’m sorry that they’re not getting along But you’re right that at least they do have company.

[Vienna Blue in France]

Yes. Ouch. But same as humans. Sometimes being just good friends is being better than being bedroom buddies .
It’ll be fine now you’ve decided to stop. It will take the pressure off of yourself to succeed.

[Bam]

I’m so sorry, LPT. I actually have a very similar scar on my left hand. Bam intended it for Yohio. The skin cracked between the incision-marks just like it looks on your hand. It’s not have hurt a bunny as much of course since they have fur.
I’m certain Bam and Yohio enjoy having each other even if they must be separated by a gate. They often lie next to each other, all stretched out. I’ve been thinking about trying to bond them again, if there had been bonding professionals here I’d hire one.

[LittlePuffyTail]

I def think they enjoy the company of each other through the bars. When Bindi is out he will often go over to Sterling’s bars and just hang out there or munch on some floor hay. And Sterling quite often will lounge out along Bindi’s door. I think Sterling likes Bindi. Maybe Bindi is just too set in his ways now. He’s a grumpy ol grampa. I’m okay with separate bunnies. It just would have been nice. I would have been able to take down all the cages and they could have had the whole rabbit room to themselves. Oh, well. At least I was able to offer a loving home to a second bunny.

[Gina.Jenny]

Our four get on fine as long as there is a divide between the two pairs, and often lie close beside each other either side of the bars too.
Sometimes bonding just doesn’t work out, but they still seem to welcome each other’s company from a safe distance.

[Vienna Blue in France]

LPT – couldn’t it be ‘as simple’ as just fencing off the middle of the room so you could step over it (can Bindi still jump? and would Sterling want to escape into vampire-teeth’s area ?) It would make bunny room ‘neater’ and less ‘cagey’.

[jerseygirl]

I really do believe some rabbits benefit from having companionship just by being neighbours. A bit more work for you LPT, having separate habitats, but it means you’re not stressed about fights or worrying about how bonding is affecting them.

I really feel it’s not only neutral territory that can help with bonding, but neutral people also. Meaning, if you have a bond with one or both of the rabbits, this can come into play in how they behave toward one another. Some of my friends are very experienced with rabbits and have bonded some of theirs easily enough, but others they had stay at my place and they bonded very quickly without my having to do much at all. The difference was my place was completely new to them and I was a neutral person.  Something to think about if you do want to attempt bonding the boys again and have someone you trust to have them. But I completely understand if you didn’t want to go that route, especially with Bindi being an older bun. And it meaning you’d be without them for a period of time. 

I don’t think I could handle being without mine!!

[LittlePuffyTail]

Thanks, Jersey. I definitely feel better with Bindi not being alone in the rabbit room now. When Olivia passed away, at least he he had the sounds of our little Rat Sniffles for company but then she left too. I just felt bad for him. Even though his door was open often and he was allowed free roam, he spent most of his time in his condo anyways so I always felt bad.

I wish I had that option but I don’t have any bunny friends nearby. Not many people I would trust with my buns. Do you feel like coming to New Brunswick for a month?

[jerseygirl]

Haha! A pipe dream… Though, I would LOVE to meet You, Everly, Ricky and all the fur children, and this is from someone who doesn’t like to fly. 

But it would mean leaving mine and .  Plus, you’d have to put  me up in a hotel so everything is neutral. Or maybe lodge me at the barn with Winne. 

btw, I don’t see myself as a Bunny Bonder. Like I said before, it was really about neutral place, neutral person. And some easy going bunnies I guess. Our own are often the trickest to bond.  Some of the other bonds Ive seen I really didn’t have to do anything. Just monitor. 

[LittlePuffyTail]

Yeah, hard to bond your own bunnies. Like an overprotective parent. You don’t want them to be bullied or hurt in any way.

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