Bonding Help – Almost bonded?

[thepuro]

Hi.  Have two 6-month old spayed bunny sisters that my fiance and I have been trying to bond for a month, Ziggy and Iggy

Ziggy: Always willing to groom Iggy, always wanting to mount Iggy

Iggy: Reluctant to groom Ziggy at first (but now grooms about the same amount), very little mounting

Started in a bathtub, graduated to a bathroom, then a few weeks ago moved to a mutual play area a bit too soon and they fought.  Lesson learned, bunnies now had a grudge.  Spent a week in the bathtub daily until they weren’t nervous around each other again, then two weeks in the bathroom daily until finally both were grooming each other, neither were mounting each other, and they had a tendency to flop next to each other.  Occasionally circling would start for a moment, or one would mount for a second but would resolve on its own with one declaring submission and grooming the other.

This weekend, we spent the entire day in a larger neutral area in my entry-way, which was set up as their final living space would be.  from 11AM to 11PM on Saturday, there wasn’t a single instance of aggression, mounting, or even discomfort.  We unintentionally stressed them every time we walked past with a big scary coat on, and they’d hide in a corner together.  During this time I cleaned and vinegar’d anything that would end up in their new area.  At 11pm we then basically transplanted them and everything into their “final home.”  I stayed up all night with them just in case…  No aggression or negative behavior whatsoever, and I’ve never seen them as at-ease as they were.  Ziggy, who rarely does a big flop, kept doing them on top of Iggy, and Iggy laid completely on her side with her head down for the first time ever.  The next night at 4AM (28 hours after moving them to their new home, and 40 hours since they’d been together) we wake up to the sound of fighting.  They were in a full-on brawl so I opened their door and they chased each other out, where we broke it up.  For the next 30 minutes we tried to get them to act nicely towards each other but as soon as they came near each other they’d both start lunging, then hop about 3 feet away from each other and flop.  As soon as they were within fighting distance, they’d fight, but then completely calm down and lie down.

I’m sure I’m not mixing up fighting and dominance/aggression stuff.. This is full on brawling with fur flying everywhere and when you try and break it up they attack whatever you put between them or touch them with, but as soon as it’s broken up they relax.

Today, I placed them both in the bathroom.  They groomed, snuggled, and flopped on each other within 5 minutes.  I moved them to the mutual play area.  They started fighting within 5 minutes.  I moved them back into the bathroom.  Immediately: Groom, snuggle, flop.

After spending 30 hours in a two-day period with them, having what appeared to be a great, equal bond, only to have it fall apart, I’m not sure how to proceed.  They’re only 6 months old so maybe I should wait a few months before trying again? Any ideas?  

[Mikey]

Youll have to restart the bonding process due to the fighting. Keep them in the bathroom for a while. Honestly, i think a few week break would be helpful as well so they can heal whatever unseen wounds they may have, as well as have time to cool off from fighting. Leaving them over night in their new area together caused an outburst. You likely moved to fast (its hard not to when you think all is well) keeping them there for too long together. Youll want to expand bonding over the course of a month (or longer) to be on the safe side unless they start acting fine in their final area, and even then, i would not leave them alone over night together until you know for a fact they wont fight again. Fights can easily cause rabbits not to want to get along any more, and they are hard to move past unless everybunny involved is willing to move past it, which can be hard for a nervous or scared bun

[thepuro]

That’s what I was afraid of.

What seems odd to me is:

a) their first overnight was fine, it took until their second overnight to fight.  They were together for 40 hours and showed no signs of aggression at all before the fight

b) when i put them together in the bathroom today, they act as if nothing happened and take turns grooming each other

c) while they were acting aggressive after i broke up the fight, they would switch between flopping and lunging

[Mikey]

They need to find out who the top bunny is. There will be small amounts of aggression which is acceptable (mounting for only a few [10ish max] seconds to show dominance, mild butt nipping, possible face nudge [asking to be groomed]) so they can gently battle it out to see who is the top and who is the bottom. If they havent been doing any of those at all, i would assume they were a bit too stressed to do so. So when they were comfortable, they started with a full on battle instead of minor little hissy fits. Every time you move then to a new area, they might want to try to fight it out again to see if their places changed or not. You just have to make sure its the acceptable kind and not the fur flying kind

Continue to break up fights and temporarily separate any fur pulling scuffles. Dont allow any circling. Allow mounting but only for a few seconds or until the bottom bun seems mad/sad/stressed out. Nips are ok as long as they arnt hard and neither bunny progresses it. If they have their own cages, slap the cages right next to eachother in the final living area (itll get them used to the sights, smells, and seeing one another there). You can try the decoy tactic which is giving them each their own little bed or stuffed animal for a few weeks (in their cages), then swapping each toy with the other bunnies toy to force them to get used to living in a close space with the other bunny

Dont be too nervous about their fight. My oldest and my youngest had a fur pulling fight within the first week of being together (progressed a little too fast). Its been a little less than a month of bonding the two and now theyre cuddle buddies and are fine free roaming together. The youngest was nervous about bonding at first due to the fight, but nothing a little apple juice couldnt fix. We just dabbed a bit on the oldest and youngests heads so they would want to groom one another. It worked and bonding them was very, very easy after that. We also have their cages side by side, and did the decoy tactic which helped out. They started bonding sessions in a tall bucket so i could lug them around while i did my house cleaning and could wiggle it if there were any escalating scuffles

[Mikey]

They need to find out who the top bunny is. There will be small amounts of aggression which is acceptable (mounting for only a few [10ish max] seconds to show dominance, mild butt nipping, possible face nudge [asking to be groomed]) so they can gently battle it out to see who is the top and who is the bottom. If they havent been doing any of those at all, i would assume they were a bit too stressed to do so. So when they were comfortable, they started with a full on battle instead of minor little hissy fits. Every time you move then to a new area, they might want to try to fight it out again to see if their places changed or not. You just have to make sure its the acceptable kind and not the fur flying kind

Continue to break up fights and temporarily separate any fur pulling scuffles. Dont allow any circling. Allow mounting but only for a few seconds or until the bottom bun seems mad/sad/stressed out. Nips are ok as long as they arnt hard and neither bunny progresses it. If they have their own cages, slap the cages right next to eachother in the final living area (itll get them used to the sights, smells, and seeing one another there). You can try the decoy tactic which is giving them each their own little bed or stuffed animal for a few weeks (in their cages), then swapping each toy with the other bunnies toy to force them to get used to living in a close space with the other bunny

Dont be too nervous about their fight. My oldest and my youngest had a fur pulling fight within the first week of being together (progressed a little too fast). Its been a little less than a month of bonding the two and now theyre cuddle buddies and are fine free roaming together. The youngest was nervous about bonding at first due to the fight, but nothing a little apple juice couldnt fix. We just dabbed a bit on the oldest and youngests heads so they would want to groom one another. It worked and bonding them was very, very easy after that. We also have their cages side by side, and did the decoy tactic which helped out. They started bonding sessions in a tall bucket so i could lug them around while i did my house cleaning and could wiggle it if there were any escalating scuffles

[Mikey]

Whoops, double post. Sorry! D:

[thepuro]

Thx for the info. They had been doing the mounting, minor circling, nipping etc. stuff for the first few weeks in the tub and bathroom, but it eventually completely stopped. Their cages have been next to each other the whole time. Once together in the new space, they became “cuddle buddies” right away and when one flops the other runs over and flop next to her. Both have been taking turns grooming each other for about a week and a half

Maybe because they never had any minor battles in the new space each assumed they were the dominant one? They continued both grooming each other in the new space as well, and would flop next to each other with their faces smushed together. They did not seem stressed in the slightest, and were flopping, eating, drinking, running around, lying on each other, trying to climb the walls (they’re escape artists), etc.

The issue is it took 40 hours together to turn to fighting. I was able to observe them on and off for 35 hours (once they were doing fine i had no issue walking away) but it’s really difficult to block that much time and to stay awake for that long..

[Mikey]

Even strongly bonded pairs might try to “fight the power” once in a while. I would keep them in a space you know they are calm for a few days/weeks still before trying the final area. Maybe one just wanted to cuddle and the other wanted to play, so the misunderstanding lead to a fight (happened with my two before, it left them both pouty and confused with one another; no big fight though, just nips)

Also, to be fair, you shouldnt be bonding for that long in one session. It should start with a few minutes multiple times a day in the neutral zone, then an hour+ in the neuteral zone. Then, after theyre all happy for several hours over the course of several days in the nuetral zone, move them to final zone. Start with a few minutes multiple times in the final zone then slowly progress to an hour+ a day in the final zone. Once they can be together for the entire day time and not fight, is when you can consider letting them spend the night together, although i would still wait for a few good full day sessions to be on the safe side

[Author]

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