Help bonding four

[Chiazoo]

Hi all, reading you has so far helped me a lot so many times with my bunnies. But now I am a bit lost and hope you can help me again.

I’ll try to keep it short and simple :
I had two bonded boys (both neutered brothers). Then I added a girl, spayed. They accepted the girl pretty easily and have now lived all three together for over one year (they are all about 3 years old)
I’ve now got a baby girl (2 months old and NOT spayed). I introduced her to them and one of my boys properly goes for her trying to bite her. I have now separated them dividing their enclosure to separate the baby. Even like this that one boy tries to bite her face through the bars. On top of this the same boy is now turning aggressive on the girl bonded with him and his brother, chasing and pulling fur off her. She’s a ppretty shy bunny so doesn’t attack back but runs away or lays flat on the floor scared.

So now I’ve separated them in three areas: the two boys together in one, the initially bonded girl in one balone and the baby girl alone too.

I will have the baby spayed (not sure how old she needs to be though). I doubt this will help though as she’s not sexually mature now and no hormones, yet the boy tries to hurt her.

As for now I feel like crying and think maybe I made a mistake getting another bunny….
Has this destroyed my initial trio forever?

Could you please help me? I’d be ever so grateful….
Thanks in advance

[Chiazoo]

Anyone willing to help?

[jerseygirl]

Hi Chiazoo

I don’t think all is lost. You will probably just need to reintroduce the new girl down the track. Is she set up close by or separate part of the house? I would probably do the latter and see if your boy calms down.

Then you can do some work repairing the trio’s bond. You may need to take them to a neutral area to do this if things in their space don’t go well.

Have you had the sex of the new bunny checked? The reaction from your boy is something I’d expect if you brought an un-neutered male into the mix. How did he react to your first girl bunny initially?

[jerseygirl]

Just an added question. Did you introduce the new bunny in a neutral area?

[Mikey]

I think more information is needed yet. How did you first introduce them? Were they all in a room together, our of their cages? Was the area a neutral space?

Its best to start your buns in their own cages at first. Keep the cages next to one another until theyre relaxing against the side together. Let them sniff through bars, but keep the cages far enough they cant nip, only nose touch. When they get used to one another and are leaning on the cages to rest next to one another, then move to face to face bonding. Put them in a box (you might want to start one on one bonding so the little one isnt ganged up on) in a neutral room in your house. If theres any signs of aggression (biting, nipping, mounting, ect) either wiggle the box to spook them or make a loud noise. Noise ideas are turning on the vacuum or smacking two pans together. Youll want to start it slow. Let the baby meet with one bun for a few minutes in the box, then put them both in their own cages. After a while, take the baby and a different bun into the box for a few minutes, then back into their own cages. Ect. Every successful day (little to no aggression displayed by any bun), extend the time they are together. After one on one, you can add two buns with the new bun. Again, start with short sessions

After theyre all ok in the box together, move on to a bigger space. Continue with short sessions until theyre comfortable to move on. Then move to the room or pen they play in. This might be harder since the three have claimed that space as their territory, and their territory only. Youll want to start this bonding with the most care. Bring treats, offer a ton of pets to all of the bunnies, ect. They may or may not ever be ok sharing a cage with the new bun since theyve claimed it as theirs for so long

[Chiazoo]

Hi, thanks for your reply. And thanks for the questions.
Basically i was told she’s a girl and when i check her she looks like a female to me, genital wise.
I introduced them in a neutral area, the fact is the baby goes towards the adults as i guess she’s curious but that one bout notes and grouls.
At the moment i have put the trio back together and they are fine again (removing the baby from sight seemed to have helped restauring peace).
When my boys met the girl that is currently bonedd with them, again it was that one boy that was aggressive. But after a few sessions they all went along. The funny thing is: the boy that seems to attack ‘strangers’ he’s not my alpha. The alpha seems to be sniffing and doing the occasional chase/hump but no real aggressive.
The girl that is currently bonded was a rescue (so are my boys), she was abused by previous owners thus she’s incredibly shy and submissive. Even though she’s now bonded, looks to me like the boys do everything together while she’s always a bit by her self.
Does this help?

[Chiazoo]

Mikey, thanks for your suggestions. Basically the trio has a large room all to themselves (they have a two floors hutch in there but the doors of it are never locked so they hop in and out. For this reason I would struggle to have separated cages near each others as this would be in the room which is territory to the trio already. The baby is now in a different room, on a large playpen. I will still try the introducing of each to her in a box ad you suggested which I can do in a neutral area. Which rabbits do you think I should start with, the alpha, the second boy (most aggressive towards baby) or the girl (slower shy and mainly not bothered about baby)?

[Mikey]

Sounds good! Your attacking male seems to feel like hes protecting the others and his territory from the new baby. He likely sees the baby as an intruder, i think. Anywho, i would start the bonding process with the easiest, so your female. Itll help the baby know that not every bun wants to go after her. If they bond pretty quickly together, your older female might protect the new female when things start to get heated when you try two on one bonding. I would leave the aggressive male for last

Oh! You can also try the toy decoy tactic after one or two of your buns are ok with the baby. Just leave a stuffed animal in the babys cage for a few weeks, then put it in the trios cage. It can help the aggressive one get used to having the baby around. A good sign with the toy is if your second male stops caring about it after attacking it or mounting it. A really good sign is if he starts to cuddle with it. I do have to say, ive never had this tactic work for me; none of my three really cared about the toy to begin with. But i did use a small fleece bunny bed instead, and that is working very well so far (were semi working on bonding while we wait for our middle bun to be neutered)

[Chiazoo]

Thanks Mike! !! I will start with the girl then. I’m in no rush though as I guess I have to wait until the baby is spayed before she can be fully bonded

[Mikey]

Very true! I wish you the best of luck with your quad and would love to read some updates as you go along

[Chiazoo]

Hi all, here is an update: I have taken everyone to a room of the house they don’t know. Put a playpen up with the trio in there then used a big cardboard box for one to one sessions with the baby. Starting with the girl, alpha boy second and aggressive boy last. Each session was about 5 minutes.
The girl didn’t seem bothered by the baby, was completely ignoring him, she thumped a few times but i think it was due to get being scared of the new environment and wanting to go back home. The alpha boy did a few quick bite attacks but i rattled the box and he stopped. He too was scared of the new environment and at some point he went and gave a few licks to the baby. The aggressive boy was very distressed, he kept making warning noises thumping and attacking, I had to rattle the box several times. Eventually he just froze in a corner, with the baby funnily hiding behind him (almost under him) I guess she was trying to be out of his sight on a weird way.
I am not sure about this technique though. Your advice would be more than welcome: all the trio seemed terrified of the new environment and mainly worried on finding a way out of the box. Is this healthy for them if I continue doing it? It doesn’t seem like they are really into interacting with the baby when they are so scared.

[Mikey]

Its a way to stress bond. As long as you do a lot of aftercare (petting, treats, free roam in their normal room(s), ect) they will be fine. Bunnies bond together when stressed, because they see one another as a kind of “protector” even though theyre both nervous. If you notice any of them still being upset after you return them to their normal space, take a day or two break so they know they are still safe and cared for

[Chiazoo]

Just though I will write an update. Sorry if this is boring to read, I just thought it could help others if I list progresses and how I made them. 

Basically yesterday I did a session with the baby and the aggressive boy. I put them two in the bath tub and let them be. There was some biting from the adult boy and the baby would run away but nothing major as the bath tub was too slippery to chase around. Then I put a little (very little) splash of water on the floor of the tub and as they were moving around they walked in it and got their feet wet. I thought this really helped as after some more walking around the adult boy eventually started to calm down and lick himself, which triggered the baby relaxing and licking herself too. They spent some time doing this in a more relaxed environment. The session lasted about 20 minutes, 5 of which they were probably relaxed and licking. They did not lick each other but I thought the bath tub was a wonderful idea to get them to relax around each other, without chance to chase or run away from each other. 

I will keep working on them two getting ok with each other like that. 

I am confident with time it can happen. Meanwhile the baby leaves in the top part of the trio’s hutch. I have blocked the access to the bottom half of the hutch so she is isolated from the trio. In the evening, when I get back from work, she comes in the house and is free to roam the living room. The trio has the bottom part of the hutch and the whole room where the hutch is (doors of the hutch always open) – I want them all to get used to smelling each other in there as one day I hope they can all share the same territory. 

[Author]

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