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Forum BONDING Older spayed female to 8 week male

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    • Josephine
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        Yes mistakes have already been made and I am well aware but please avoid too much judgement, we know our mistakes, we need to know where to go from here.

        We have a spayed 8 month old female called Bettie we tried to introduce a 9 week male to the home, Bettie is not responding well. She has become generally grumpy with the entire household but in regards to bonding within seconds she starts chasing, fur pulling and the male is scared, submissive and squealing. 

        We had female pair in sept, Bettie was the runt, sadly within the week the other one died and we decided to raise Bettie alone for awhile. She went from nervous and underweight to a wonderful happy healthy bunny who has free run of the entire house during the day and a room at night (if we are out). At 6 months she began to show dominance issues circling me and our dog and mounting my and his feet, nipping his ankles, (and penis!). After spaying she became the literally perfect bunny. She gets on great with our wire fox terrier dog and sits grooming him for hours, lets him use her as a pillow, (they are never left alone) and loves cuddles off us, flops around and loves belly rubs!! But due to my poor health there were the odd days when we was alone in her room because I was too ill to be out with her so after discussions on and off decided a friend was the right decision..at some point. 

        However, this was where we made our mistake, my husband has been depressed at losing his job and whilst in-laws were visiting he sprung on me in front of them: ‘we should buy a bunny today!’ I know it was the wrong thing but we took home a beautiful 9 week boy without letting them ‘date’ first.(mistake one)

        Our Bettie has always been cage free. With newbee bun in a large cage in Betties room, through bars they got on ok, nosing each other occasionally, although bettie a little ‘eager’ maybe. With Bettie being cage free and us not driving there isn’t any truly neutral zones other than the bathtub. They were fine for 2 seconds then Bettie launched at newbe, he tried to scramble away, she engaged in fur pulling, we sprayed water Bettie refused to stop. We panicked and stopped it. (mistake two I think, too soon?)

        We tried again in another as neutral as possible location (the hall) same things happened. The younger male bun is completely submissive but flees at any given chance. Bettie given the chance, with engage in chasing (which from research I was told is a big no no) when pinned in a corner a few times the newbie has squealed, scrabbled and panicked but not attacked back. I know perhaps we intervened to quickly with the fur pulling, but all the research says to stop chasing which seems to be the main thing Bettie does. We are at a loss what to do next. after separating them this second time the new bunny has become nervous in general, and of us as well as Bettie. I’ve spent time watching Bettie and Newbe and whenever he sees her or us now he is more nervous. All our bonding work with him is out the window.

         
        I am looking for any advise. Also, weirdly, Bettie has become more dominant with our dog again since new bun arrived, grunting at him and circling him too… all very strange. I worry that because NO positive note was found in the first two introductions (depsite no actual full on fighting) and the traditional 15mins each day could cause a downwards spiral for their relationship, ours and the bun in general. Atm Bettie sleeps in her room and they are both having ‘people’ socialisation time. They are spending time in cages next to each other, being fed at the same time etc. But I worry we could spend days building the trust up this way and the first time they ‘meet again’ properly it all go wrong again and his confidence is back to square one.
         

        We considered stress bonding but Bettie is scared of very little, (she didnt seem at all phased by the bath) and dont have a car. I know stress bonding should be a last resort but then newbe is stressed anyway so whatever get its done seems best for me so any (non car) suggestions would be taken. Also Bettie couldnt care less about water, although it breaks up the issue, it doesnt shock her or bother her but does bother newbee. Turns out our runt became pretty fearless!

        Another suggestion I read is an intensive ‘all-dayer’, where they are forced to hang out until they find a peace. This makes some sense to me, so they can get the fear out the way in one dose and newbee can move past it properly socialise with all of us, but of course its more stressful in the short term.

         

         

        Please advise, I know its pretty much agreed upon to break up chasing but if all interactions start with chasing because he instantly runs away what should we do? How much biting/fur pulling should I allow before spraying/breaking it up? And by break it up do we simply separate them to ‘separate ends’ of the space and let go straight away or let with new bunny calm down first….All the advise online talks about when a rabbit ‘fights back’ or once this first stage is dealt by, I’m not sure what to do when our male bunny is submissive and our female isnt ‘fighting’ but is repeatedly chasing and fur pulling (no mounting.)
        Literally any advise would be great, do you think I am interveneing too quickly, should I try something different to water, etc.
        Please help! x


      • tobyluv
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          You probably would be able to bond the new bunny with your bunny, since he is still young and doesn’t have the hormones controlling him or the aggression that might come with them, but as he matures and reaches sexual maturity, which could be as soon as 3 months, you will have to separate them, have him neutered, wait 2 to 4 weeks, then try re-bonding them. The first step in bonding is for both or all rabbits to be spayed and neutered. You can either keep trying the bonding now, or keep them separate until he has had his surgery and the wait period. Even though Bette has been spayed and there is no risk of pregnancy, at some point the new bunny will change and start humping, probably continually humping her. That’s when fighting will occur. Rabbits can severely injure each other when fighting. You can keep them in the same room, but it would probably be best to wait the couple/ few months until he is old enough to be neutered, then bond them.

          It sounds like you have already read up on bonding, but here are 2 good articles that you may not have seen and that may be helpful:

          https://binkybunny.com/BUNNYINFO/tabid/53/CategoryID/9/PID/940/Default.aspx

          http://rabbit.org/faq-bonding-multiple-rabbits/

          I have found that a good way to bond rabbits is to put them in an x-pen, and get in with them.  My husband and I have usually gotten in there together with them.  Even if the pen is set up in a room that one or both have been in before, being in the pen is something different to them, so that kind of creates a neutral space. 


        • Josephine
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            Thanks. That was my thoughts after careful thoughts and considerations last night. It also gives our new bunny chance to settle in etc so they are on more equal footing for the one on one introduction.
            I also wondered whether the latent hormones may have reoccurred in our female. She was spayed only a month ago, and although her hormones settled almost straight away after the spay since our new bunny came home she is acting dominant and hormonal with all of the house. (She even nipped me last night which she has never done before). Made me wonder if thats why she reacted so poorly to our new bunny?

            They seem ok in cages next to each other so we are going to attempt to bond them next to each other. They are going to share a room, rotating between in and out of the cage. Using bonding techniques like feeding time together, companion teddies/stunt double (which are scented like their future friend) etc. Both being handled (one by me one by my husband) next to each other on the sofa (so they associate each other with snuggles and affection) so when we do introduce face to face they will hopefully have done as much cage bonding as possible.
            Going to monitor them closely through the cages (and Betties behavior with us and the dog) in the coming months, and hopefully we shall seee Bettie returning to her normal friendly self with us and the dog which will be a good sign she is starting to accept our new bunny more.

            I may try the x-pen idea, although by leaving it til our new bun is neutered it gives us the option of a garden introduction which is neutral for both of them. I have read both of those articles thanks but shall keep them saved for a later date. Any extra hints and tips for when we do introduce them in a few months would be great.

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        Forum BONDING Older spayed female to 8 week male