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BINKYBUNNY FORUMS

Forum BONDING Unsure if bunnies have bonded

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    • Love4Bunny
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        I have been bonding my desexed male-female combo and this is my first bonding experience. My buns have been together for about 43 days now and I am having slight problems minimising chasing in familiar territory, motivated by food and the cottontail cottage. They get along well in neutral territory/ semi-neutral territory, but Zoey (F, 7months, 2lbs, sub) refuses to groom Thor (M, 22months, 6lbs, dom) as frequently as she did in neutral territory.
        They went from being side by side in cages (surrounded by cardboard due to agitation), to bathtub bonding, to 2 weeks in neutral territory, to 4 or 5 days in familiar territory.
        I have now placed them back into the neutral territory (or semi-neutral at this later stage) because Thor chases to nip Zoey when he hears me dishing out food of any kind (as a single bun, he would tackle me for food when I let him out in the mornings). They groom each other no matter where they are (Thor moreso in familiar territory, which is just weird to me because Zoey refuses to return consistent grooming in familiar territory – almost like a role reversal). There has never been any true fighting between the pair, but the chasing in familiar territory was creating too much tension for me to feel comfortable about leaving them alone and trusting Thor’s “mood swings”. They will still hang out next to each other on the same mat in both environments but I switched them back to semi-neutral territory because I could see that tension was building. I find small tufts of Zoey’s fur every other day. Zoey was picking up confidence when I put them in familiar territory but Thor just shut her down and she got what appeared to be an attitude. Thor never used to chase Zoey about food before I put him in familiar territory with her, but it appears he has brought that trait with him back into semi-neutral territory. Also, they can share the same food bowl without fighting, but Thor will hog it, so they eat in separate bowls next to each other and really, they co-exist decently, and sometimes just charmingly, except for this one annoying and perplexing complication.
        Does this mean that they’re not fully bonded? Or does this mean that they are bonded and just need time to click? I was advised that 2 weeks should make Thor a better sharer but I’ve no idea whether Zoey is trying to vie for dominance, or whether Thor is just a big, cranky bully. Other than this, Zoey seems very attached to Thor, and Thor is just a big furball of bunny kisses to me, and occasionally to Zoey.


      • Kokaneeandkahlua
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          Are they on a restricted pellet diet? (though healthy competition for food can result from that, so separate bowls is a good idea)

          If there is no true fighting, no humping that turns into fighting, grooming etc I’d call them bonded. Mine have been together for-more than seven years I think? They still nip sometimes, and will do a little chase (though they are elderly now the chase is, like, four steps and very undramatic) -stay cautious, keep watching, make sure there are escape areas and keep things wide (so no one gets caught in a corner and a fight erupts) as they get used to each other but I’d say with no fighting and some grooming they are officially bonded.


        • daphnephoebe
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            My two females have been bonded for almost a month (three month process to get them to sharing the house full time).
            And Daphne still gets over excited about food and will chase/mount Phoebe.

            We simply scatter feed them (they don’t ever use a food bowl) and this prevents one from hogging all the food. A lot of the forums I use say it is normal for there to be over excitement when it comes to dinner/breakfast time and so long as it doesn’t break out into any fights to not worry.


          • vanessa
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              This make me feel better. My 2 also have issues over food. She is nippy, so he has his own feed area and litter box.


            • Love4Bunny
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                Sorry it took so long to reply Kokaneeandkahlua. Yes, they get fed half of their daily allotment in the morning and the rest at night. No, no humping or fighting, just lots of grooming in semi-neutral territory. I’ve noticed Zoey occasionally keeps her distance when the food/ greens come out.
                That is very cute, with the uneventful chasing, I wish mine took only four steps. Thank you for the advice on being bonded. I actually made their pen smaller in familiar territory to minimise chasing, and placed one tunnel near so Zoey could put a barrier between herself and Thor, and escape easier (she is faster than him). Thor was unaccustomed to her playful binkies and used to chase her away at first, but now I’ve noticed him ignoring her and tolerating her personality. She squats into a loaf when he approaches, and this seems to disarm him because he ends up nudging her for grooming, and they lie down next to each other, and that’s about it in semi-neutral territory. I will definitely keep an eye out on them when I try them again in familiar territory this coming week.


              • Love4Bunny
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                  Hi daphnephoebe, thanks for the info. I had thought that a longer time in semi-neutral territory might help my buns integrate, but I feel that territorial instincts are another kettle of fish entirely, with bunnies. In response to the excitement around feeding, I am wondering when excitement turns into fighting. Like I’ve suggested, Thor does chase Zoey in familiar territory, maybe three times around the cage before I yell and Zoey outwits Thor, but it is fast chasing and no “lock and load” mode, (aka, Rhonda Rousey style). I’m trying to figure out what body language would lead to fighting, but Zoey never attacks Thor when he chases her away. She flees and asserts passive agressive-style by demanding grooming later. It appears to be a fine line with chasing and fighting, but Thor seems more of a bossy boots than anything else – you know, a bit like a cranky neighbour. Any tips on which signs to be really worried about during a chase?


                • Paradigm
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                    Charlie occasionally chases Albus, still.
                    Does Zoey always hunch down when Thor approaches? This would strike me as not a good sign, except that binkying seems to suggest she’s happy enough.

                    I guess a few things to consider are:

                    – If you don’t intervene, does it escalate to a fight? Preventing them from scuffling at all could slow bonding down.

                    – If you scatter feed (spread food out instead of in a bowl), does it stop them behaving in a territorial manner?

                    If they’re not outright fighting and neither seems terrified of the other, I think they need to spend longer periods together. If you’re really frightened of them fighting, try setting up a camera and watching it from another room so you can see what they do without you there.

                    Moving bunnies into different places can mean they renegotiate who ‘owns’ it, especially in the early days of bonding. I would say moving them back and forth, rather than letting them settle it is probably dragging bonding out longer than it needs to be (unless they’re outright fighting, the odd tuft of fur is acceptable).

                    Imagine that there’s a really serious conversation you need to have, but whenever you try to discuss it with your partner a mutual friend comes swooping in and distracts you because it makes them awkward if one of you gets tearful. You know you need to have the conversation, but because you never get to finish it you have to keep starting over and over. It’s a bit like this with your buns.

                    So I guess that gives you the options of making the semi-neutral territory their permanent home or waiting it out in the territorial area.


                  • Love4Bunny
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                      Hi Paradigm,

                      No, Zoey doesn’t hunch down all the time, but I think she pre-empts Thor a little more than I expected, which I am not thrilled about. I see what you mean about relocating – thank you for the insight, it is very helpful. I have just relocated them back to familiar territory (and read your post after I relocated!) and I mimicked the set-up from semi-neutral territory. Thor is binkying like I’ve never seen him binky before. Little hops and twists and head shakes, and he is grooming Zoey now. Hopefully she returns the love soon. I had no idea that rabbits could renegotiate territory, and if I had known earlier, I would’ve kept them in familiar territory. Yes, I feel like they are two “people” trying to get on the same conversational page, so since they seem to be okay for now, I will wait it out in the territorial area. I know some do not like the water bottle technique, but it was recommended to me, so I’ve kept it handy if Thor gets too crabby.

                      No, there has never been a fight, but all the stuff I learnt about in the early stages of bonding suggested early interventon, so this could have slowed progress. I check both rabbits regularly, and they seem unhurt, and I let them interact more freely after doing more research on bonding. Sometimes I think (like you referred to with the conversation) when one rabbit is happy, the other is like, “What in the world?…” . I’ve observed both rabbits do role reversals when one expresses happiness.
                      I will try scatter feeding tomorrow and see what they do.


                    • Love4Bunny
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                        Paradigm, I should add that the sound of pellets or bowls clinking is enough to drive Thor crazy. He was like that before I began bonding, and used to hunt me down for pellets and circle my ankles, complete with grunting noises, and annoying tugging on clothes. I never perceived it as aggressive, and he never bit my fingers, and always knew what was finger and what was food, and would grab individual pellets from my fingers skillfully (still does). In this way, the problem of chasing with food begins with Thor knowing my routine of feeding and hearing stuff. Last time round, when he heard food being dispensed, he chased Zoey. I distract him some, and this kinda limits chasing.


                      • Love4Bunny
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                          I have an update for anyone still reading at this point. They have been back in familiar territory for 1 week now, and things seem well, bar the occasional chase.

                          If I could do anything differently, I would’ve kept Zoey and Thor in Semi-neutral or neutral territory for longer. About 2 weeks longer (which makes a month in total). Then I would’ve put them into Thor’s room (familiar territory). They seem to be better friends after an extended period in semi-neutral territory.

                          I now scatter feed in an upturned stove cover, and this works well for both rabbits. Zoey has learnt to give Thor preference at mealtimes by running away from the pen door when he approaches. This has reduced chasing significantly.

                          Thor now shares his cottage but we’re also working on him sharing the maze! If I encounter problems, I remove all the territorial items and slowly reintegrate each item one at a time, maybe over several days. I use a spray bottle, or metal stove covers to create noise to distract from the occasional chase. I don’t think chasing will completely stop, but I have learned to distinguish between playful and annoyed chasing. For my rabbits, playful chasing involves stopping and relaxing near the other rabbit, whereas annoyed chasing means you have to make them stop by creating a distraction.

                          While Thor initially got a lot of grooming, he grooms Zoey a lot more nowadays, and demands less grooming. I have read that sometimes bonded rabbits are more on an equal footing, and while I don’t think it is entirely the case for my pair, Zoey seems to receive way more grooming than she did in the initial stages of bonding. She is grooming Thor less, and he seems to be alright with that and goes about his business.

                          One thing which I did not expect was for their personalities to come through so much. Zoey is smaller and has more energy. Thor is much more relaxed and still likes to lie down next to me. Nothing about his loving personality has changed. She is like a pocket rocket, zooming about the room like a woman on a mission. Half the battle for me was waiting for them to become somewhat accustomed to each other. Once they do, they are not too phased by the others quick movements, which is so different to the beginning, as Thor would get annoyed if Zoey ran too fast. Now Thor is mostly fine with her zippiness. He is a lop cross, she is a lion head cross.

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                      Forum BONDING Unsure if bunnies have bonded