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Forum BONDING Reforming Bond

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    • cjwishon
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        We have two 9 month female holland lops we got 2.5 months ago who were together all their lives (they are not sisters however). However, they started to misbehave shortly after we got them and we haven’t been able to have them in the same area for the past 1.5 months. At this point, we followed most bonding strategies and in small spaces, they are fine. But, whenever there is larger space, one of them (the same one) will eventually go behind the other and nip and pull hair out. The odd thing, they are side by side for their houses and often groom each other (one way at the moment, nippee grooming nipper, but I have seen the reverse on rare occasion) through a barrier and seem to like each other, it just always end up in the nip which totally ruins the time together as the nipped one will just run and hide causing the nipper to eventually seek her out an inevitably nip her again. The nip never seems super aggressive, but it does lead in a small hair clump. They do the same thing in neutral space and we even tried putting them in housing space just to mix it up (I know territory issues could be present, but we had to mix it up somehow), but the same thing happens (no different than neutral space at all). 

        The odd thing, the nipper is usually slow to binky and play, but as soon as we get them together she instantly starts to binky. The theory, she is just is either really happy or wants to play and doesn’t know how to express it effectively? Anyone have advice or experiences with similar situations? Thank you for reading all of that!!


      • LBJ10
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          You had two threads, I copied this from the 2nd one since I thought maybe it was relevant.

          The confusing part, they are in spaces next to each other and will groom/lay next to each other sometimes (in all honestly, the nippee usually grooms the nipper, but I have seen the reverse on a rare occasion). Also, the nipper is usually slow to run around, but as soon as you put them together, she quickly runs and binkies before she settles and the nipping begins. Our theory, she is happy/excited, but doesn’t know how to express it. Anyone have experiences with this type of behavior? Thank you for any advice!


        • cjwishon
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            Thank you! After I posted the first I didn’t see the notice at the bottom that they must be approved (I thought I missed the submit – totally my fault). Hence I resubmitted, sorry about that!


          • vanessa
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              I had a similar case with Guin and Lancelot. Guin is bossy. She was nipping Lancelot and stalling the bonding. In hindsight – she was commanding him to groom her, do this, do that, more here, sit there, move over, etc. Now that they are al snuggly and bonded, she still gives him the occasional nip – when he comes up to me for attention. She wants his attention all to her self. Doens’t want to share him with me. She was well behaved in small spaces, and nipped in larger spaces, and also nipped whenever he stepped out of the litterbox. He had to learn to stand up to her, get up his guts and stand his ground. I tried to help him to groom her by putting fruit juice on her head for him to lick off. When he licked the juice off, she thought he was grooming her, and she backed off with the nipping. Guin was completely smitten with Lancelot even though she nipped him. She was so much in lvoe with him she couldn’t bare to have him not paying her attention. Her crazy smitten bunny brain just hadn’t figured out yet how to be nice to him. I was feeling concerned that I couldn’t get them passed the nipping. I gave them a 4 week break because Lancelot was getting stressed from the nipping. Then I took them on travel with me, and stayed in a hotel with them, for 2 weeks. Completely neutral territory. A five hour drive there, and a 4 hour drive back. There was some nipping in the hotel room. I kept picking Lancelot up and putting him outside the litter box. He had to learn to to fear her teeth. Somehow – they sorted it out. When I got back home with them, they were able to live together and be all snuggly and confident.
              Perhaps you need to find a way to shake things up and break their nippy routine.


            • cjwishon
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                Thank you for the amazingly quick response. Your case actually sounds pretty close. Since they are so young, we really do think it is just like human teens who are so horrible at expressing themselves. I like your hotel idea, just not going to go that far haha. We are moving soon though so maybe we can try some new tactics during that time. My only question, how did you manage the time? Did you ever interfere to stop the nipping (loud noises, spray of water, etc.)? Did you just put them together and let them figure it out? If so, my fear is just that the nipped will not eat/drink since after the first nip, she shuts down/hides.


              • vanessa
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                  Lancelot definitely “hid”. He stayed in his safe spot – the litter box. He wouldn’t come out to eat or drink, so I put his food and water in the box. Then I put his water outside the box so he could still reach it without stepping out. I inched it farther and farther away, and picked him up and put him out, to encourage him. For the nipping – when I was around, I would smoosh them when she started to nip. If you are not familiar with the smoosh term – I petted them at the same time to calm them down. She started to see closeness to him as associated with petting. He saw it the same (periodically). That’s how I hand;ed her nipping. I put my hand on her head as soon as I saw her ready to nip, gently pushed her head down (GENTLY but quickly), and petted them both at the same time. That way I was able to stop her in her tracks, and they both got petted, and saw their interaction as not so bad. Over and over and over. 3 months later with a week break, then a 4 week break, they are bonded. A friends house could be a very neutral area. Noises and water did not work at all. I suppose they were figuring it out while I was not there. But to help them along – try smooshing them when you see the nipper spring into action. You want to help the nippee realise that it is not so bad to be with the nipper, and you want the nipper to see that there is no need to nip. But that will only happen once the nippee gives in to the nipper’s demands – and will only do so once it feels safe to do so. Catch-22.


                • cjwishon
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                    And there in-lies the problem. They hate petting/us at the moment. We had them spayed a week after we got them so we had to do some handling so we could give them their meds which they really weren’t pleased with. We also had to do some handling for bonding to get them into neutral space/we tried using carriers, but they would just stay in the carrier and never come out. Through all of that, they aren’t big fans of us (we can’t really blame them). We are making progress on that front, but it will be quite slow (they now realize we are the providers of food and will permit some pets under very strict food situations).

                    Ironically, last night was somewhat successful (for anyone else who has similar situations). They had a session which was typical in the AM (nipping and running away), but at night, we let them interact and it was full of binkies, sprints, and good interactions. The current strategy is we just open up their spaces to play where they have both been living. Against everything I have read, we have had zero territory issues really and it works best for us since we don’t have to worry about transporting to neutral space. Only bad part (which I am good with actually) is the nippee kept looking for some grooming but wasn’t getting it. Since they aren’t fans of us, getting banana or other treat on her head to trick her into grooming is not a viable option. After a little while, she started to pester the typical nipper and we got some circling which we were able to break with a loud clap. After that, they just went back to normal and had no more problems. Hopefully we can keep making progress on both fronts (each other and us). Thank you for your help!!


                  • vanessa
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                      Well, one of the guidelines, is – If you find something that works, stick to it. Generally, bonding 2 rabbits requires a significant amount of handling from the human. I am in a similar quandary over Morgana and Avalon. I want to start bonding a quartet in December. Guinevere and Lancelot are easy to handle. Avalon likes being petted, but Morgana barely allows me to pet her, and only while eating. Other than that, she runes away from me. And I’ve had her for 2 years. I almost feel she and I will never make more progress. I wouldn’t feel comfortable letting my 2 pairs of rabbits loose with the other pair – without me being able to physically interact with them, until they are bonded. But that sort of interaction/handling would be stressful for Morgana. At the same time – Guin wasn’t a fan of being handled before the bonding with Lancelot. She soon learned that I wasn’t going to eat her, and she and I actually bonded greatly while handling her to bond her with Lancelot. Aside from transporting them to a neutral area, your options that I can think of for shaking things up, are changing their “furniture”, making their space larger, or smaller, or running a vacuum cleaner for a few minutes to stress bond. But then you are hoping they will snuggle together. It works best in a small space. When I vacuum the room, Guin runs as far from the vacuum cleaner as she can get, regardless of where Lancelot is at. But it is also true that they need to sort it out for themselves, as long as there isn’t true aggression.

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                  Forum BONDING Reforming Bond