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Forum BEHAVIOR Journal – getting my bunnies to trust me

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    • vanessa
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        I brought Avalon and Morgana indoors, and they aren’t nearly as snuggly with me as my other pair (Guin and Lancelot). I’ve seen a number of posts about “my bunny doesn’t trust me”. So I thought I’d write about the same thing. Those with snuggly bunnies probably won’t be interested in reading. But for those who’s bunnies are skeptical of them, here’s my journal.

        Guin does her own thing, runs up to me for snuggles, and melts when I pet her. Lancelot is like a puppy. He follows me around for snuggles. But Avalon and Morgana have only been in the house for 3 weeks, and I was on travel for the past 2 weeks. They lived outside up till now. Morgana is about 2 years old, Avalon is about 1. Avalon is her son. I picked him up frequently when he was under 3 months. After that I didn’t handle him much. Him and Morgana were separated for 4 or 6 months, then bonded after being fixed. 

        While they were outside, Avalon let me pet him for a few seconds a day. Morgana was always skittish, and only in the last few months did she let me pet her for a few seconds a day – after watching Avalon for a while.  She escaped from my front yard 3 times. She came from a rabbitry. Also known as an escapee there. VERY skittish when I got her. She was always on edge – chewing holes through chicken wire, 

        After getting flystrike – I brought them in. I had already brought Guin and Merlin in, but he was very ill and crossed the bridge. I adopted Lancelot, and have just bonded Guin and Lancelot. The 2 pairs of bunnies are now sharing a bedroom with a divider fence, covered by towels so they can’t see each other. They can smell each other, and Guin is reacting accordingly – pooping EVERYWHERE. 

        Avalon flattens out when I pet him, and he lets me pet him for a few seconds. But he doesn’t sit and let me pet him until I’m done petting. Morgana is still skittish. I can pet her maybe 3 strokes on the head only. I can’t approach her, she only lets me pet her while she is eating veggies. Ant not everyday. 

        So here’s my plan – let the get use to seeing me in the room for a week, then I’ll start petting them while they eat. 


      • vanessa
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          I said I’d wait a week – but I get impatient. Morgana lets me pet her with 2 fingers on her head, and I can get 2 strokes down her back. Avalon gets down in the pet me position, but still only for a few seconds. I was running the vacuum in there today… I knew Guin, Morgana, and Avalon would freak out. Lancelot is so darn calm. He tries to nibble on the vacuum while I’m running it. Morgana and Avalon freaked out and ran to their corner and snuggled. Guin freaked out, ran to her 3rd level, and dug ferociously at the mat up there, and then peed. Great.
          Talking about Guin – she is very terretorial. Since I put her in with Lancelot, they are bonded now, but because she is in his original half, and Morgana and Avalon are in her original half of the bedroom, Guin is pooping everywhere. It’s as though she gathered up all her poop for the day – and spread it everywhere. She is also peeing on her fleece carpet. I put an extra litter box on her 3rd level. This weekend I’ll have to gather up al the carpet in her half and wash it, and replace the pee pads under the fleece carpet, and the cardboard that lines the NIC cube “castle” floors.
          I think it was easy to get Guin to be snuggly with me throught he bonding experience with Lancelot. I was putting her in uncomfortable positions, and stroking her. But Morgana and Avalon are already bonded. I might have to think of some uncomfortable situation to put them in, and pet them. Just a thought. I”ll just continue stroking them while I feed them.
          They are real chewers. Destructive little bunnies. Guin settled down nicely as a house rabbit, after living outside. Morgana and Avalon are still chewing little monsters.


        • vanessa
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            So Guin poops EVERYWHERE, with her new living arrangements. I decided to hit a few birds with one stone, and start taking down the dividing curtain, since that would make her poop everywhere as well. Morgana, Avalon, and Lancelot, are not perturbed by the sight of each other through the NIC cube fence. Guin thought she was going to kill the other 2 bunnies through the fence, but the holes are too small for her to do damage. I smoosh her when I see her tail standing up and her ears back. I expect it to take maybe a month before she calms down on the solo poop war.
            No progress with Morgana and Avalon. But I did have to rearrange their corner furniture, because they are trying to dig their way out of the house. I gave them extra obstacles, blocked their access to the corners with appealing hidey holes, tunnels, scratch pads etc. Morgana is really determined not to bond with me.


          • vanessa
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              Today was a step back with Morgana and a step forward with Avalon. I had to rearrange her living area AGAIN, because Avalon moved the obstacles I had laid in their path, and they had chewed through the towel, pee pad, and plastic lining. The carpet was next… Something about those corners… So I disassembled the bunny condo, and added a sheet of wood, and then a wire grate, and then reassembled the bunny condo. The wire grate is the 4×4 lid that can be bought separately from x-pens. Works great as a dig-proof floor liner. What a time consuming evening though. And then I removed and replaced the cardboard lining and carpet/blanket on the 3rd level overlooking Morgana and Avalon’s area, because Guin’s peeing everywhere in protest of Morgana and Avalon – seems to have ceased. So I put her fleece carpet in the wash, and put a clean blanket down on the 3rd level. Had to cut the cardboard lining to size. During all of this – Morgana was across the room – thumping away. She wouldn’t let me near her. Not even when I put their salad down. Avalon wasn’t concerned. He let me pet him until I chose to stop. I’m not doing whole body pets with him just yet. Still only head rubs, But I did strike the side of his face and neck today. And he didn’t pull away. That’s a first.

              Guin is getting better about not slinging so many of her poops everywhere, but now Morgana and Avalon are pooping along the fence line. To be expected. No more agression from Guin at the fence.

              My cat Misty was extremely pleased with Morgana and Avalon’s new living arrangements. She is convinced that everytime I rearrange their furniture, it is to provide her with a new and more interesting sleepy-spot.


            • vanessa
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                More progress with Avalon, none with Morgana. Avalon now lets me use a full open hand to pet him, all the way down his body. No more light head strokes. I can use some pressure and almost give him a bunny massage. He gets all flat and snuggly. Very awesome. Doesn’t run up to me yet, but has definitely discovered that being petted is awesome. Morgana is inquisitive. When my hand gets to the end of his body, she tries to sniff it. But she runs away from me.

                I noticed Avalon and Guin sitting alongside eachother on opposite sides of the divider fence. Morgana still avoids the bunnies on the other side of the fence. Beginning December – I’m going to attempt a trio. Morgana and Avalon – with Guin. Even though Guin and Lancelot are bonded, it’s only just barely. Guin thinks he is adorable, and he has his affectionate moments with her, but they are rare. I think he doesn’t really want it. He just gives in. I honestly believe he might be happier on his own. He is very timid and easily annoyed. I hope to see more notice from Morgana to the other paid of bunnies in the room. Maybe by bonding a trio, Morgana will also bond with me. Bunnies get lots of smooshes and cuddles from me during bonding. I swear – Morgana was like a wild animal when I first brought her home. Very skittish and frightened. Any positive interaction from her – has really been from her observing Avalon’s positive response to me.


              • vanessa
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                  Same as last post. Avalon is becoming very snuggly, no progress with Morgana. I must admit this week I did’t approach her much (although the recommendation is not to approach), I have found that petting them shows that I won’t eat them. But Morgana just strait up runs away from me since I rearranged her living area. I’ve had her for 2 years now. So she definitely knows me. Sometimes I wonder if some rabbits just don’t have it in them to trust a human. Each animal is an individual. My 2 border collies have opposite outlooks on life. One is optimistic, the other is pessimistic. I think bunnies have the same variation in personality. Morgana is skittish. Always has been.


                • vanessa
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                    Morgana is letting me per her head while she eats her salad. So I’ll keep doing that this week.
                    I had mentioned that Lancelot might be happier on his own, but him and Guin are starting to look snuggly now. Even after declaring them bonded, it has taken him a while to warm up to her. Lately, every time I step in there, they are snuggling. Guin and Avalon still sit next to eachother with the fence in between, and Morgana still ignores Guin and Avalon.


                  • vanessa
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                      This morning Avalon and Morgana both came up to the fence to greet me. Morgana let me pet her half way down to her back. She hopped off when I petted the side of her face. I still wonder if I’ll ever get farther than this with her.


                    • vanessa
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                        Slow slow progress with Morgana. She actively approaches me at feeding time, and of course Avalon is starting to stand up on his hind feet at feeding time. When I pet Guin on the other side of the fence, Avalon sees her interaction with me and comes up to the fence for petting. Morgana is still skittish though. Feeding time is the only time I can come near her. Other than that – she still runs away from me. This week I clipped Guin and Lancelot’s nails. They forgave me very quickly. I’m not looking forward to clipping Avalon and Morgana’s nails. I’m sure it will involve many steps back for Morgana. But I want to get that done this next week.


                      • vanessa
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                          Well I haven’t been doing anything different lately. Just feeding and trying to pet Morgana. A few days ago she let me approach her to pet her, with no food involved. That was a first. Haven’t clipped her or Avalon’s nails yet. Not looking forward to it. December is approaching – I had wanted to start bonding a quartet. But I’m not sure if I should wait for Morgana to trust me more, since it will involve much handling which will be stressful for her, or if I should use the opportunity of handling and stress – to bond her with me at the same time. Guin was much more snuggly with me after bonding her with Lancelot. I think the handling and smooshing and petting was good for her and me.


                        • vanessa
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                            Morgan really likes the cat treat ball. When I feed them, it’s 1/6 cup each twice a day. I’v egon back and forth between different amounts, I find this works best. They aren’t getting too much pellets, and aren’t acting totally famished. (Or maybe I’m just getting use to their begging). They are really cute at feeding time. Guin runs to her food bowl in anticipation. Lancelot nudges my ankles for the cat treat ball. Avalon charges his food bowl, and Morgana waits for the cat treat ball. She approaches me quite eagerly for that treat ball. She still lets me pet her briefly – sometimes. When I’m in there rearranging things, she gets annoyed and thumps, and it takes a few days for her to allow me to pet her again. I think this is just the way she is. I don’t believe I’ll be able to convince her otherwise. Unless something clicks in her bunny brain, I think this is just how she is. I still love her. I’ve been writing for weeks that I need to trim their nails. And I haven’t. I’ve been dreading it. Guin and Lancelot are easy. Avalon and Morgana will not be easy. I know they will get use to it and it will get easier, I’m just not lookign forward to it. Initially, they will see me as a bad person for wrapping them up. Morgana is quite a fighter. When I would wrap her up for her oral antibiotics, she fought and struggled every step. Pulled her head down like a turtle retreating in it’s shell, bit, squirmed, she is a real wild one. It’s not pleasant. I have to hold her tight enough that she can’t wriggle out of my arms, but not too tight to hurt her. But this is it. I feel bad for putting it off so long. I need to check their nails this week.


                          • vanessa
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                              I clipped Avalons nails today. He was quite shocked to be picked up. It was like a super quick snatch and grab operation. Before he knew it, he was wrapped up in a towel. Not all nice and neat in a bunny burrito, but wrapped up all the same. I petted him, clipped his nails, and it was over almost as soon as it started. He was super good. I could feel his poor little heart racing. I didn’t hold him on his back. Upright was working well. Once I put him down, he went back to his chill spot and allowed me to continue petting him. Possibly out of submission, but at least he didn’t run away 🙂 Morgana is up next 😉 His nails were actually nice and short. He’s been inside for just over 2 months, so I expected longer nails than that. Maybe it has something to do with his sand dig box? About that dig box… I’ve posted pics on a few other threads… It’s an extra large enclosed cat litter box with play sand, and an 8-inch corrugated entrance tunnel to dissuade the cat from entering She would turn it into a litterbox… He has chewed a nice little jole in the corner. It has a plastic fold on each corner – protruding inwards. Nice little piece of plastic for his toothies… I haven’t seen Morgana int he box, so I’m not sure what her nails will look like. It ws also a good opportunity to check his hocks. All good 🙂


                            • vanessa
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                                Morgana let me scratch her neck today. She is routinely running up to me and hanging around my ankles at feeding time 🙂 This afternoon I’m attempting a date with Guin/Avalon, and Guin/Morgana. Getting a trio going. We’ll see how Morgana takes to the routing picking up/handling/petting/smooshing.


                              • vanessa
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                                  So… I did a date with Morgana and Guin, and Avalon and Guin (in the bonding forum), and then trimmed Morganas nails. I’ll be catchign her and takign her to the bathroom every day… We’ll see how that speeds things up. It helped get Guin all cuddly with me 😉
                                  When I pet Morgana and Avalon over the whole length of their bodies, I’m amazed all over again at how soft and silky their fur is. Morgana is California Rex, Avalon is New Zealand Rex.


                                • vanessa
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                                    So… They still hang around my ankles at feeding time, but when I pet them, they hide – coz they do’t want me to pick them up again. I still catch them int he carry crate. It’s actually easy. I prompt them over into the litterbox which is in a corner, then put the carrier in the litter box, and then magically they go into the carrier and I close the door. I carry Avalon back to the room in my arms, but I still carry Morgana back in the carrier. She still kicks and fights. Trimming her nails was quite something. She pulls into the burrito like a tortoise in its shell. She does her best not to allow me access to her feet. But mama prevails…


                                  • vanessa
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                                      Back to square 1. Last night’s bonding session with Guin didn’t go well. Today, Avalon and Morgana won’t let me near them. Now I”m back to sitting in their space, holding out greens for them. They wtill hand around my feet at feeding time, but no more petting.


                                    • vanessa
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                                        It’s been a few months… It sometimes gets tiring, trying to bond with a rabbit who isn’t responding much. So I left Morgana alone. I’ve been doing my usual feeding.cleaning and she still gets exited when I come in to feed them, but I haven’t tried to pet her in a few months. Then last week I reached down to pet her and she flattened out as if se was enjoying it. That was about a first. And then I didn’t try to pet her again that week. Over the rest of the week, she has been approaching me and sniffing, when I’m in there cleanign out her litter box. That is also a first. So I’ll keep on giving her some space, and see how that works.
                                        Background info: I got Morgana when she was 3 months old, in November 2013. I frequently get the dates mixed up… but I think it was November 2013. That makes her 2.5 years old. And this is how much progress I’ve made. Granted – I only brought her inside in September 2015. But still… She is the wildest of my bunnies. I brought Guin inside in June 2015. She is super duper snuggly. So it can take a while I guess.


                                      • vanessa
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                                          Today was good. I have still been ignoring Morgana in her room except for feeding and litter changes, and she has been approaching me and sniffing. I have recently started bonding her and Avalon with Guin, and I’ve been pickign up Avalon every day to take him to the bonding area, but leaving Morgana in their room. Over the last 2 days – I have been takign Morgana to the bonding area too. I dot’ pick her up myself, I still coax her into the crate, and carry her that way. I am at the point where I can pick up Avalon myself, without much fuss. A few days of coaxing him into the crate, and he realized that he didn’t get eaten. So not I can pick him up myself. I think that carrying Morgana in the crate for a few days has done the same thing – she realizes she didn’t get eaten. With bonding the trio, they all get plenty of petting from me. Now in her room, Morgana doesn’t oppose any sort of petting at all 🙂
                                          I had read a post a while ago about stress bonding a rabbit with it’s owner, and I thought it made sense since that is how we bond our bunnies with eachother. Well – a little bonding with the other 2 bunnies whcih involves the stress of being caught and handled, and Morgana is doing better with me.


                                        • vanessa
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                                            So a year later… Morgana is still where she was at – not opposing petting. I haven’t been able to pet Avalon, or pick him up with out cornering him into a cat carrier. And honestly I just let it go for a while. So for the last year, they know that I come into the room multiple times a day, feed them, change the water, vacuum, sweep, rearrange furniture and toys, clean the litter box, and top up the hay. Avalon has kept a good distance from me, and Morgana has still allowed me to pet her, but she never approaches me. This week was nail trimming time again. I scooped them up one at a time in a cat carrier, picked them up out of the carrier, put them on a towel on my bed, bundled them up, and clipped their nails and weighed them. I have also recently changed their feeding to strictly twice a day for pellets. I had previousely free-fed them, since they are avid hay eaters. This morning – Avalon was sitting on my toes asking for his pellets, and he allowed me to pet him. First time in a year. I think the rationed pellets have something to do with it.


                                          • vanessa
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                                              You know those things you read that do make sense but you don’t really pay a whole lot of attention? Well – for bonding with your bunny, it really is better to try to pet them when they are most active. I keep reading – pet them in the mornings. Absolutely. I get much further with Avalon in the mornings, than any other time of day. Normally I can pet his head, but no further than his ears. This morning he was comfortable with being petted down to his shoulders. Still using the clicker everytime I feed them. I think that since they aren’t very treat-oriented, I’ll do 3 weeks of clicker when I give them pellets, and then I’ll start having them come up to me for their pellets, instead of go to their food bowl. That way I can incorporate proximity with me. I saw a cute youtube video of a bunny climbing over it’s human’s lap to get the treat. I’m not aiming for tricks here – I want them to be comfortable around me, and let me pet them some more, instead of scurrying away when I come in. But Mornings definitely seem to be the best time to work with them.

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                                          Forum BEHAVIOR Journal – getting my bunnies to trust me