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BINKYBUNNY FORUMS

Forum BONDING Guinevere & Lancelot

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    • vanessa
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        Guinevere is a 7lb California. Large, (you would think she weighs 10lbs!), and she was bonded to Merlin, a 7lb Red New Zealand. Unfortunately we lost him to EC with complications. After a month of mourning, Guin started doing her bunny binky again, so I adopted Lancelot, now a 5lb lop. When I brought him home, he was underweight, and had just recovered from an eye ulcer, dehydration, malnutrition, and dental work. His previous diet included candy, such as M&Ms!

        I was unable to bring Guin with to pick him out, nor did I bring her with to ride back in the carrier.

        I started with her in her room and him in the laundry room, because when Guin and Merlin were outside with close fence contact to my other pair, whom I was hoping would all get to know each other, they only developed hatred. So I was afraid of the same thing happening, and I housed Guin and Lancelot out of sight of eachother.

        Session 1: They ignored eachother. I put them on a runner in the hallway. They didn’t want to get off the runner as the wood floor is slippery. He ate his salad, she wouldn’t touch hers.

        Session 2: Same as session 1.

        Session 3-4: She attacked him. Left a total of 4 pea-sized open bites. He stopped eating his salad in front of her, she still won’t eat hers in front of him.

        I called a local rescue organization for advice. When I bonded Guin with Merlin, it was super easy. I put her in his area, he chased and humped for a few days, and then they were the snuggliest pair ever. My other pair,  Morgana and Avalon, were also really easy to bond. They took 4 weeks to become snuggly, but there was no aggression between any of them. No nipping, nothing of the sort. So I expected an easy bond again. Boy was I wrong.

        I was advised to let them get to know eachother, since I had picked Guins partner without her consent. I cleaned up the room she was in. Completely. Shampooed and vacuumed the carpet, used baking soda on it, cleaned the baseboards, everything she had touched. Rearranged the furniture, added, removed items, made it a completely new room. The idea was that she would not recognize it as “her” space. Then I set up 2 x-pens, 6 inches apart. My buns don’t like less than 8×4 space, so I used a number of pens. After 2 weeks, she had stopped marking the fence line with pellets and pee, and had started lying up against the fence. I had seen them lie on opposite sides, although he would maintain a few inches from the fence.

        This was my sign to introduce them again. (That – and his wounds healing properly…) I removed the x-pens and replaced them with a NIC cube construction. They share the share dividing fence. No attempts to fight through the fence.

        Session 5-7: I started watching the “bonding bunny techniques” on Youtube. I asked my boyfriend to help me with the bunny smoosh. I maintained control/relaxation of the aggressive/territorial female Guin, and my boyfriend had Lancelot. So while we both stroked them, I would grab her if she acted up, and he would grab lancelot if he needed saving. I dont’ think I would have been comfortable with doing this on my own at this stage. For the first 3 sessions, I held a piece of cardboard between them. First I let their noses touch. Next session, I pulled it back so their eyes could meet. Then their heads, then their whole bodies. I went really really slowly. By now, she was putting her head under his chin, although he was still nervous, and closing his eyes hoping for it to be over. He is really sweet and easy going.

        Session 8-9: Bathtub with a towel. We did a bunny smoosh, no food involved. Since session 5, I have not let her move on her own. I keep my hand on her head. I trust Lancelot, so I don’t restrict his movement, but I do stroke him to calm him when he looks restless. I decided to let my hand up from her head. She moved up to him, requested snuggles, and he put his head under her chin. I was sooooo pleased! His first positive response (other than ignoring).

        Session 10: I put together a 2×3 sided NIC cube in my bedroom and sat with them doing a bunny smoosh for 45 minutes. She tried 2 nips at him, and I put her head down in a snuggle position. This is where I’m nervous to let them sort it out. I don’t want it to escalate. I think I want to see them both more relaxed before I “let them sort it out”. I may be wrong here – I’m just trying to do everything possible to prevent another attack. I want their sessions to be only positive, no negative. He still ignores her, hasn’t put his head under her chin again. He hopped away from her and turned his back. I brought him back and we snuggled some more.

        Session 11-12: 20 minutes in the NIC cube, this time I placed them face up to the fence so they couldn’t try to leave the smoosh. She mouthed his face a couple of times. She is looking better at this. Much more intent on sniggling than a few weeks ago. He is still nervous, ignores her, but seems to enjoy the petting.

        Now I’m looking at the next video in the bunny bonding techniques, “face to face”. I’ll try that this week. A bunny smoosh face to face, instead of side by side. I still sit in the NIC cube with them. I’m not at the point where I can let them move freely.


      • vanessa
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          Session 13: Today was fantastic. I had planned on a face to face smoosh instead of a side by side smoosh, but they ended up somewhat inbetween. That’s fine. Lancelot relaxed and pushed his head into Guins neck over and over. Every time I let up petting him, he nudged her neck for more. It was awesome. He even took a break from snuggling to clean his face. I let up on her head and they just continued to snuggle. I am so so so thrilled 🙂 I’ll give them 2 or 3 more controlled snuggles, then I’ll step out of the bonding area and see how they do without me. I also need to let her hop up to him. Typically, he sits still and when I put her in, she tries to hop to him but I keep my hands on her shoulders so I can know her intentions. I think I’m ready to let her hop up to him 🙂


        • vanessa
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            Something else I did… I got them each a stuffed bunny. I found one with lop ears like Lancelot, and one with upright ears like Guin. I swapped their bunnies every day. Guinevere was liking, grooming, and cuddling her bunny, and Lancelot ignored his. When I swapped them out, Guin licked Lancelot’s bunny. So I knew Guin wanted to bond. She just wasn’t sure about Lancelot. I was concerned that he didn’t show the same interest in bonding with his bunny. Although he saw the car as a potential interest. I think the stuffed bunnies helped. Guin was anoyed at me for bringing Lancelot in. She turned her back to me the first few days, and took about a week to let me pet her again. Perhaps the stuffed bunny got her wanting to bond, and the non-threatening stuffed bunny was easy to bond with. Before she and Lancelot were showing cuddliness, I put her stuffed bunny next to her whenever I came into the room. Once her and Lancelot started getting cuddly in the sessions, I stopped putting her bunny next to her. But I still kept swapping them out, so she could get use to his smell in her area. During the first week I swapped Guin and Lancelot into eachother’s living areas, but Guin peed EVERYWHERE in her area. So I stopped that, and gave her towels along the perimiter instead of her veterinary fleece bedding, and she stopped peeing everywhere. So I have left them in their own areas. I’ll figure out how to get them use to sharing a space later. Maybe I’ll totally clean and rearrange their areas again.


          • vanessa
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              Session 14: Much like yesterday, except today, it was Guinevere who stopped to clean her face. Fantastic. I let my hand off her and she hopped around a bit. Didn’t com e closer than a foot from him on her own, but didn’t show any aggression either. I only had half an hour to sit with them today. I stepped out of the NIC area and sat on the outside of their bonding square. He did thump when I put him back in his room though. Not sure if he was still annoyed by the whole bonding thing, or if he was annoyed that I interrupted his play for bonding. He was working a corn stalk over, and I was on a tight schedule, so I interrupted his play. Guin was quite happy to come out. She gets down in the “snuggle me” position when I step onto her half. After I put her back, she asked the cat for a snuggle, got ignored, and then asked me for a snuggle. The bonding exercises with Lancelot have been good for her and me.

              This morning Lancelot was the happiest I’ve seen him. He is normally buzzing and storming me int he mornings, and when I get home from work – and when I say good night, but this morning he was extra happy. Buzzing and running circles around me. Guin caught onto his excitement and started hopping around too. It was really cute. I was happy for her to see him happy. One more thing to convince her that he is not a threat 🙂

              Tomorrow I’ll put a salad in their bonding cube.


            • Ness
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                This a great journal please keep going as I am in a similar position and the updates of what works for you would be so useful


              • vanessa
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                  Thanks Ness. I feel the same about reading other people’s journals.

                  Session 15: Another great session! I got a salad together for them and put it in their bonding cube. Once they were in, they went to the opposite sides and ignored eachother. I always him in first, and take her out first – so if she ever gets the idea that it is her cube – putting him in first would make it seem like she is entering his space. Since she is the highly territorial one of the two. After they sat at opposite ends for about 10 minutes, I put them together in a face-to-face smoosh. He didn’t respond much today, and neither would touch their salads. But they looked cozy enough, I decided I had to let go of her and step out. I felt like she was bonding to me and him – which was great, but I wanted her to bond especially with him. I felt that as long as I was int he cube petting them, they were relaxing and seeing that eachother’s presence was a good thing, but their interactions were primarily with me. Which was necessary up till that point. Now I felt they were ready to interact without me. So I stepped out of the cube and folded laundry.
                  Once I was out, it was as if she looked at me to ensure I was not in the cube, then she started to groom him! I was so happy I could have licked her ear! He still didnt’ respond, but then I may not be aware of secret bunny communication. She wanted to hop around the cube and sniff things, so I put a folded dish cloth over his back. He still hadn’t moved – but I was concerned that if she got behind him, she might be tempted to bite. So I figured the folded dish towel would provide some protection if she decided to bite. Silly maybe, or even counterproductive, I don’t know. But she knew what it was, and nudged her nose under it to groom his shoulder. After she hopped around some more, and came back to him to groom again, and shoved her nose under him, I let them snuggle some more and put them back. I am so relieved. I was worried for a while that I was going to have 2 single bunnies in the house. This looks like it is going to work. He is slow to respond, but I’m optimistic. When I put him back, he was anxious to get back on the ground, but he didn’t thump like yesterday, and he proceded to buzz and run around my feet. They both seemed happy when I put them back.

                  I’ll do the same tomorrow. I’d like to see them eat together. I want them eating before I add a litter box. When I put them back, one of the first things they do is go to their litter box. Not sure what that means in bunny language, but all is going good 🙂


                • vanessa
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                    Session 16: Today I put them in their cub with half a grape each. When I put her in, she hurried up to him for a snuggle. I gave them each half a grape, instead of a salad, since grapes are treats. He nibbled on his but didn’t finish it, and she didn’t touch her. I rubbed grape on their foreheads, and he sniffed but didn’t groom her. She proceded witha lovely grooming session. Similar to yesterday – she hopped around, hopped over him, sat with her rear at his face, and groomed him. No humping by either, and he still didn’t move. So I decided to put her in his enclosure with him, closely followed. He was nervous about this, and she explored his toys and hide-outs. THen she tried to nip his ear, which caused him to thump, and go to his hidey spot. So I snuggled them and put them back. I tried to get them in a smoosh to end on a positive note, but he was at the back of his hidey hole which is hard to reach for me.

                    Tomorrow I’ll go back to the cube. I did put a litter box in the cube today that they had both previousely used. She sat in it, he ignored it. Tomorrow I’ll try a brand new litter box, a maple branch to chew, and a plastic plant pot to toss around. He seems really nervous, so I think I need her to be comfortable enough not to nip him. It was not an attack, just a nip. But it got him stressed. He has plenty of scars and a few notches on his ears. Makes me wonder what hurt him in his previous home.

                    So a little step back today. Maybe his enclosure was a bad idea because she can see hers through the fence. I’ll go back to the neutral space, and I’ll add neutral litter box/toys.


                  • vanessa
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                      I’d like top find something to keep me busy in one room this weekend for a few hours – so they can have a longer visit. I think a car ride would also be in order this weekend. I’m not sure car rides really bother him, and she has had plenty herself. But it’s worth a try.


                    • Ness
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                        I think you are having great progress. It sounds like she is becoming more and more happy with him and now you just need to give him time to open up to her. I think always keep the bonding in neutral spaces until they are fully bonded. I would suggest that you try a long haul bonding session soon. Put them in there together and just let them get on with it. It might be difficult to watch at first if he is unresponsive or if she nips but as long as he is moving away from her when she nips and not fighting then I think they will eventually work their differences out and the more time he spends with her the more likely he is to relax and eat etc – I mean he can’t just sit still for ever can he?
                        It seems an interesting set up as I thought the groomer was the non dominant one and the one being groomed was the dominant which is the opposite for yours. I wouldn’t worry about him not grooming her as I’ve found some rabbit just don’t groom and whilst that’s kind of sad for the one rabbit not being groomed its just the way it is.

                        Keep us posted!


                      • vanessa
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                          Thanks Ness.

                          We’ll, we have been in the bonding pen for 3 hours now. I put a litter box in, and I put them in a bunny smoosh in the litter box, in case she got any wild ideas about guarding it. It’s going good. He asked for grooming twice, (that I saw), and she ignored him. For the most part, they are just sitting. She ate her borage leaves, he didn’t eat.

                          I also feel that I am at the point where I need to let them sort it out. As much as I hate to watch it. I still put a folded dish cloth over his back. I laugh at myself for that, but hey – once I saw her attacking him those first few sessions, I have a new respect for her teeth. I’ve folded 2 baskets of laundry, left the room for a few minutes, they are still sitting. Every now and then he gets up to stretch or move, and she grunts and nips him. At the moment, when she does that, I call her name, not scolding, just distracting her. Although I should probably not do that. She took a short nap, and now she’s continuing to eat her greens.
                          Tomorrow I plan on taking them in the carrier to the feed store to get a few varieties of hay. (Lancelot won’t eat hay). That should be a 15 minute ride each way, and I’ll carry the basket in the store. Then I’ll try another long session.

                          Well, she’s eating her hay, playing with her chew stick, nibbling the edge of the litter box, all good.
                          When she nips him, he doesn’t fight back. The only time he fought back was that first attack of hers – she got into that head-to-tail lock, and rolled with him. It was scary. Other than that, he always moves away from her, and generally sits as still as possible. But today he is sitting with his head up and eyes open. More interested in the setup than before, where he sat with his head down and eyes closed, which is when he is wishing it to end.

                          She seems to be settled down in the litter box, so I’m going to put them in a smoosh again, and then put them back in their room.

                          This is about a blow-by-blow report – coz I’m sitting in the bedroom, watching them – for 3 hours now. So he just approached her, touched noses, then sat back down again. She is still in the litter box, so I’m glad she didn’t get all protective over it.

                          I’m so glad this is goign well. I was afraid for a while that I was going to have 2 single bunnies in the house, but it really looks like it is going to work. 🙂


                        • vanessa
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                            Session 18: We had an hour/half car ride this morning with 2 stops. Now we’re back in the bonding cube in the kitchen where I can watch. They are in a NIC cube with 3 panels on each side, 2 litter boxes with food in each, 1 bowl of water, and a toilet roll holder stuffed with hay. I see the same thing as Ness – when I am present, they act differently. When I leave the room, Guin nips at him. Not sure what that is about. So he is staying in his litter box at the moment. I’ve read different things on litter boxes in bonding areas. I want them to each have a litter box, because he drinks a lot and pees a lot. So I want him to feel to pee – since this will be a few hours. She is feeling free to hop around and explore the bonding cube. He tenses up when she approaches, but sits still in his box. At the moment they are each settling down for a nap.


                          • vanessa
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                              2.5 hours in the pen, she has come up to him to groom him, and he has popped out of his box twice to sniff her nose. They sniff for about 2 seconds, then he is back in his box, and she stays where she’s at. They are both eating and drinking, and I finally saw him take a few nibbles of hay. First time I’ve seen him eat hay in the 2 months I’ve had in 🙂


                            • vanessa
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                                Well it’s been 4 hours in the pen. Mid-afternoon now so they’re sleeping. I should try this earlier in the day, or later in the evening, when they are more awake. I’ll give it half an hour more, then put them back in their living areas. So today was eating, drinking, grooming, nipping, and nose-sniffing. I’m happy with how it went.


                              • vanessa
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                                  Session 19: Today was great. I had them in the cube for 2 hours while I was cooking. At first, she had her face by his hind quarters. I couldn’t see if she was nipping or licking, but he was flinching, so I moved her face aside after a few seconds. They did really well. Lots of grooming, requests for grooming, ignoring, and cuddling. She groomed him on her own, and they both requested and ignored each others requests. She didn’t groom when he requested – only when she wanted to.
                                  This time I gave them one large litter box because yesterday they spent most of their time in opposite corners. Tonight they spent all the 2 hours in the box. They ate their salad, and ate hay.
                                  Yesterday Lancelot had a few nibbles of timothy hay, and today I gave them Orchard 2nd cut. He ate it just like the other rabbits. I was super pleased about that. It will be really good for his belly.
                                  By the end of the evening, the dogs were barking for their share if my time, Guin was getting nervous about it, together with the sounds of pots and pans being cleaned, and loud music playing, so she snuggled up to him. I got the house quiet again, let her enjoy the snuggle, and put them away.

                                  So they are comfortable in a small area, as long as Lancelot sits still. The large litter box works well. Now I need them to be comfortable moving around the area. If he makes a move that she deems sudden – she nips him defensively.
                                  It’s not too bad. I’m super protective of my buns, and her nips aren’t bad enough to get much of a reaction from me. I just tell her “Guin behave”, and she settles down.
                                  Any suggestions on what to do next?


                                • vanessa
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                                    Kind of a fuzzy picture, but here they are snuggling in the litter box. Tonite is going great 🙂 I didn’t need to smoosh them. As soon as I put her down, she flattened out in front of him for a snuggle. He still hasn’t moved much, but she seems to want to be next to him. She has groomed him from head to toe, and he is looking more comfortable today. I think tomorrow I won’t put them in the litter box when I bring them to the cube, I’ll put them outside the box, so they will have to get in it, and i particular, Lancelot will have to move around. 


                                  • vanessa
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                                      Oh that sucks – I tried to attach a pic, but it didn’t post.


                                    • vanessa
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                                        Session 20: Continuing from this afternoon, 3 hours in the cube and what a breakthrough! They were comfortable enough for me to leave the room. I have left them alone for 2 hours. One tiny tuft of fur lost by him, but no wounds. And he is still looking comfortable. He has his head snuggled up to her, low down, but snuggled. He lost that tuft on an excursion out of the litter box. I put his water in the box. That’s me going into mamma mode. But I dont’ want him getting dehydrated. His snuggling is not just him sitting still, his body posture is different. Like they are communicating in body language and snuggliness. I think I am going to leave them in the cube in the bedroom for the night, and put them back in their living areas tomorrow morning. I’ll do the same thing every day this week, and by this weekend, I’m going to clean out their bedroom again to make it less recognizable, and create a small combined living area that I enlarge each day, and slowly add their old furniture (in a different arrangement), until they have the whole bedroom 🙂


                                      • vanessa
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                                          So 5.5 hours later I chickened out and put them back in their bedroom. She was getting nippy, he couldn’t move, and he was stomping his feet. So I smooshed them, and put them back. It was a good evening. I want to do this every night this week. Pt them in the cube when I get home from work, and put them back when I go to bed, sill I see that he can move around.


                                        • vanessa
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                                            So 5.5 hours later I chickened out and put them back in their bedroom. She was getting nippy, he couldn’t move, and he was stomping his feet. So I smooshed them, and put them back. It was a good evening. I want to do this every night this week. Pt them in the cube when I get home from work, and put them back when I go to bed, sill I see that he can move around.


                                          • vanessa
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                                              Session 21: Patience is hard. I wish Guin would relax. They snuggle great, and the grooming and requests are great. But she still doesn’t let him move freely. When he gets out of the litter box, she nips him and he runs back into the box and thumps his feet. I wonder if she feels that the rest of the bonding area is hers. Midweek I’m fairly busy, so I’ll only manage a 3 hour session a day, till Friday. I’ll try to let them stick it out overnight. Or should I say – I’ll try to let myself let them stick it out…


                                            • vanessa
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                                                I took out the litter box…


                                              • Ness
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                                                  It sounds like things have stalled a bit. I managed to fully bond my two over the weekend and the only way that seemed to happen was I just left them alone. Frost would still nip Roger and Roger would thump and run away. But they didn’t fight (previously they would very easily get into that head to tail ball you have talked about). But I figured as long as there was a bit of space for Roger to move away from Frost eventually they would get bored of the routine. And they did. Eventually Roger stopped running away and got curious and would even approach Frost. I only gave them one litter box and for a long time only one would be in it at a time but eventually they would share it.

                                                  Maybe just leave your two to it. As long as Lancelot doesn’t fight back when Guinn nips then eventually he’ll come out of the litterbox for longer periods of time and I think eventually will stand up to her a bit. As you say you are so worried about the outcome of a fight that maybe you are being too protective – and I get that Roger broke his foot during one bonding session so it was hard for me to take a step backwards but i’m very glad I did as it worked for me and now they are great together. They don’t really snuggle as I’ve seen but they cohabit very well and are even completely at ease in a travel box together. Maybe if you just aim for small steps rather than the end goal of long snuggles and grooming sessions you’ll see greater progress? Good luck with it!


                                                • vanessa
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                                                    Yeah – I’m in agreement Ness. I decided this afternoon that they are staying the night together.
                                                    So… Session 22: Started at 1600, they are eating, drinking, grooming, Guin is playing, Lancelot is sitting still. They’ll spend the night in the cube.He doesn’t fight back, and I think he’s realized by now that if he sits still, he’ll be ok. So I suspect that would be his strategy. He did try one series of hops that she would normally have nipped him for, but this time as she rushed forward, she flattened out and shoved her head under his chin instead. So.. tomorrow will tell.


                                                  • vanessa
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                                                      So I put them in the cube yesterday, checked on them a few times, and said good night.
                                                      This morning I could tell that he has been out of the litter box because he had left a few of his tiny little poops around the cube. But no missing fur, no fur on the ground, no wounds, they are both eating and drinking, all looked good. I gave them 2 litter boxes again. They had swapped litter boxes, and she had hopped into his with him. So I left them in the cube and went to work. Unless something goes wrong, I don’t plan on separating them. He didn’t give me his buzzing greeting this morning, but she was happy to see me.
                                                      I’ll work at cleaning up their bedroom and making a small neutral area for them. Once they are both relaxed, I’ll start giving them more space, and furniture. when I put the NIC panel castle back – I’ll leave openings so he doesn’t have a dead end. Until I’m convinced they are ok.
                                                      I have a busy evening again, so I might just run the vacuum cleaner for a few minutes, but if she is still making him nervous, then tomorrow I’ll take them for another car ride.


                                                    • vanessa
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                                                        Wow what an evening!
                                                        When I got home from work, he was still in his box, and they were mad at eachother. Her ears were flat and she wasn’t letting him out the box. If he got close to the edge, she leaned forward to lunge. I put him on the ground next to her but she bit him and chased him back into the box. I was worried it was another stall, but with a step backwards. So I thought that perhaps 3 nic cubes is too much space. And the litter box, whether 1 or 2, is a bad idea. It just gives him a place to hide and avoid interaction, and a place for her to banish him to. And – I suspected she was mad at him for not liking her. I read that a female can get mad if the male doesn’t return her advances. He has ignored all yummy treats I rub on her head for him to lick off.

                                                        So I tied NIC panels to the litter box, which is 28×18 inches, with a food and water dish. That’s all the space they have now. In the smaller space, she calmed down and groomed him, so he calmed down, but still wouldn’t groom her. I squeezed a plum, and then a strawberry on her head. He licked it off! And then he continued to groom her. Throughout the evening I kept squeezing juice on her head to make sure he was still licking her. By this time, he was grooming her all over. She was so happy, she just melted. It was lovely!

                                                        They looked all cuddly and in love, so I left them in the box. It is quite a small space though. I hope that they don’t get too bored. I did tie up a few chew toys for them, and stuffed it with hay. If they are still cuddly in the morning, I’ll move them into a 2-panel cube, 28 inches square. But with NO litter box. I’ll Stuff it with straw, like a giant litter box.

                                                        I must add – none of them has tried to mount, and he has never fought back. It’s as if they are both submissive. His body language is different from my other buns. He enjoys being groomed, but when I pet him, he raises his head and nudges me to continue. When she grooms him, he bows his head, but he doesn’t flatten it like the other rabbits do.

                                                        I’m so thrilled that he finally groomed her. So is she 🙂


                                                      • vanessa
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                                                          Day 24: Last night I put a litter box down in my bedroom just incase one of the buns hopped out of the bonding area. This morning – Lancelot was buzzing and running around me with excitement – coz he had hopped out during the night. Little bugger! I put them in the bathtub with towels and a shallow litter box. He wasn’t interested in grooming her this morning. Poor Guin is covered with squashed strawberry and banana, and Lancelot is not paying attention. I’ll try plum again this afternoon. When I put them in the tub, there was a few minutes of squabbling, and then they settled down.
                                                          This evening I want to take them for a car ride again as I go to the feed store and the grocery store. I’ll carry them in with me. I still haven’t separated them. So I suppose they have been living together with some intervention, for 2 days now. This weekend I’ll work at cleaning up their room and creating a small neutral space for them in there.


                                                        • vanessa
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                                                            I’m trying to attatch a pic of them in the tub…  

                                                            When I got home this evening they were totally snuggly. My new plan of action will be to squeeze plum and strawberry juice on her head every day. If he can continue to groom her, she will be nice to him. And once she is consistently nice to him, I think it will be easier for him to like her. We are on 3 days now of not being separated, and being left alone for up to 8 hours at a time unsupervised. No fur pulling, no wounds. 

                                                            I’ll keep limiting their space, and only open it up gradually. 


                                                          • vanessa
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                                                              I brought them out for some exercise. Guin wasn’t overly concerned about the small space, she is in a snuggle mood. But Lancelot was giving me his pleading eyes, so I took him to my bedroom to run around. He was all a-buzz with joy. I don’t want to separate them for too long, but I also hope that maybe the short exercise time was a break from the stress of bonding. It’s bedtime for me now, so I’ll put them back into the bathtub, squeeze strawberry onto her head, and say goodnight. Tomorrow morning we’ll go for a car ride while I get some errands done.


                                                            • vanessa
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                                                                Day 25: We rode for 2 hours in the car, then I put them back in their original bedroom, in a nic cube with 2 panels each side. Ran the vacuum cleaner, then squeezed plum juice on both of them. They are all snuggled up 🙂 A change in habitat always gets them frantic at first, but they are looking good.


                                                              • vanessa
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                                                                  Amazing progress this afternoon. She looks completely in love. Him grooming the plum juice from her has done wonders. I think that once she got over her rage at his presence, she just wanted him to be cuddly. And she was angry at him for ignoring her. But he was angry at her for biting him. When she wants to be groomed and she is not already sitting next to him, she pounces and dives with her head under his chest. It is such a dramatic movement – he gets nervous and flinches, not sure yet what her intentions are. But once her head is under his chest, he sinks down and they cuddle. I’ve seen 2 relaxed body postures from him, which is a first. His movements are still guarded, and he raises his head for me to pet him when I come in, where he would otherwise have run up to me, danced around my feet, and made that cute buzzing sound. But at this stage, I am positive he will continue to warm up to her and relax. Hopefully by this next weekend, I can give them their bedroom back and call them bonded 🙂

                                                                  At the feed store, the cashier looked askew at the pet carrier and then remembered from last weekend, that I was bonding them. She asked how long it had been, and I said it could take months. She said something like “maybe they are a bad match and you should stop”. While I don’t rule that out as a possibility in the rabbit world, I did think to myself that she is missing out on the joy of getting to know these little creatures.


                                                                • vanessa
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                                                                    Day 26: Took a step backwards today. They did so well yesterday that I doubled their space today. She got nippy, he ran to his upstairs loft, and wouldn’t even come down to pee. He was about tp pee on his fleece, so I popped him into the litter box on the ground level. After he had done his business, right back upstairs. When she got nippy this morning, he wanted nothing to do with her again. Couldn’t convince him to groom her. I was feeling bad for him coz he is stressed with the smaller living area. He got use to having half a bedroom, and being able to dance around my feet without her nipping. But I suppose I should put them back in the same size space as yesterday. It’s 3 NIC panels, so that’s about 4.5 feet on each side. He thumps his feet at night. And when I check on them, I don’t catch her doing anything, so that’s why I suspect the small space (and her presence) is making him stressed. All is well when he is grooming her. If I can kep him grooming her at least twice a day, they get along just fine. It’s almost time for them to wake up. Once they are awake, I’ll run the vacuum, and do the plum juice thing again… and have them back in that smaller space.


                                                                  • vanessa
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                                                                      Evening – they are back in the large litterbox. 28″x18″. I still don’t want to separate them. They are back to snuggling and grooming. Although I can tell that she is as happy as a pig in a sty, he is feeling subdued. So I’m back to giving them 1 more panel’s width at a time. Doubling it today was a bad idea. I’m closing their door and mine this evening – I hate hearing him thump. Makes me want to bring him into my bedroom to run around. If I do that, then I’ll have to spend at least an hour in the morning with plum juice getting them settled as I put them back in their bonding area.


                                                                    • vanessa
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                                                                        Does anyone have any ideas? I’m at a loss.
                                                                        Lancelot and Guin do fine in a small area no larger than 4 square feet. When I try a larger area, he can’t move because she nips him, so he is fearful of her. While in the small area, they groom and snuggle, but at night, he stomps his feet because he wants out to run and play. She is happy in the small area as long as he is there so they can snuggle and groom. When I take him out to play, she looks lonely. (She lost her previous mate to E.C.) Should I let them sleep together in a small area and play separately at night? Should I make them stick it out in the bonding area day and night?


                                                                      • Gina.Jenny
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                                                                          My feeling would be he needs to stretch his bunny legs from time to time, and if he is stomping his feet cos he is annoyed, an annoyed bunny isn’t in the best mind frame for bonding anyway?


                                                                        • vanessa
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                                                                            Yeah – maybe I should let them play in their original halves of the bedroom at night, and bring them together again in the morning to snooze.


                                                                          • vanessa
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                                                                              I’m giving them a 2 week break. I would like to see him happy and buzzing again. I don’t want him to learn to resent her. Now that they are back in their bedroom, she is pooping along the fence line again, so I’ll have to wait for that to end. When I bring them out together again, I’ll pick a new neutral area, use lavender oil on their ears, and change out the bonding area if they start to stall. And I’ll let them both stretch their legs every day. I’ll first let them spend the daylight hours together, then nights, before I move to both.


                                                                            • Ness
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                                                                                That’s a shame that you got to a brick wall and couldn’t get past. Maybe after the 2 week break you could try the smaller space again and then somehow gradually increase it an inch at a time. Could you use a piece of cardboard to reduce the size in the larger space? Maybe if you were to increase the roaming area an inch a day or every 2 days the buns wouldn’t notice and after a while they would be in the larger area and comfortable with each other? I know you struggled with him being in the smaller space and thumping because he wants to exercise but I can’t think of another way around this problem especially if you have to re bond them with the plum juice every time they have an extended period separate from each other. From your journal she is a very dominant girl. While He seems subdued I think eventually he will stand up to her or she will allow him to run around.

                                                                                In the early stages of bonding my dominant male showed no signs of grooming the other one. Also he has never groomed me during snuggle time but Roger regularly does. I just assumed Roger would be the groomer and Frost the groomed. But this weekend whilst at the lake and in their vacation run I startled Frost by moving the garbage can and he ran straight over to Roger and promptly groomed him! I was amazed. So they now groom each other and seem to have a more equal existence.

                                                                                I know its really hard but I still wonder if just leaving them to it will be the best way to get success. They don’t fight and yes she is being a bully but she will eventually get bored of standing guard – one would hope?


                                                                              • vanessa
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                                                                                  I coulld agree with your entire post – which would also mean I’m still coddling them… I like your idea of an inch at a time. If I keep picking new neutral areas, I’m going to run out of space… So a cardboard or for that matter, a blanket draped around an x-pen, would help to keep them from seeing which room they are in, and an x-pen set up in a circle, could be widened an inch at a time. I like that – and then I would have to decide if I need him to be happy to bond, if I should take him out for exercise and have to struggle with plum juice, or leave them to it. He foesn’t fight back, so I’m not worried about injuries, and she seems to be telling him to get out of her way, give her the box, give her this, give her that, etc.
                                                                                  It’s so weird for me to see her like this. Her previous husbun was the dominant one.
                                                                                  Today he was all happy and buzzing again, she stopped pooping along their shared fence, she still lies up next to the fence, now I’m just waiting for him to resume lying up against the fence. Then I’ll give it another try. I feed them up against the fence so they are close when they eat. At the moment he is grabbing his food and running off with it to eat it elsewhere. It’s kinda cute.


                                                                                • Ness
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                                                                                    Sounds like a plan. I know it can be really frustrating but you’re doing really well and you clearly care and love the buns very much so if it takes you a bit longer because you want to absolutely sure of the buns happiness then so be it. Keep at it though, I think you are so close and I promise all the effort will be worth it in the end as they grow to love each other and enjoy having a friend.


                                                                                  • vanessa
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                                                                                      Yeah, I’m going to give it another try this weekend. She acts like she wants to be with him – she just hasn’t figured out how to act like a lady. Her previous husbun was just The Man… He ruled the roost. Ruled the chickens and ducks, and the cat. But Lancelot is not like that. I also wonder if maybe she guards him so he doesnt’ leave her like first pal. Maybe that’s me associating human feelings to a rabbit, but in the litterbox she wants him to sit next to her and groom her, and not sit apart from her. I think he would much rather be with me than her, but as long as she behaves, he’ll be able to be happy with her. They are both looking ralaxed again, so Saturday I’ll set up the new bonding pen 🙂 I will be so thrilled to see them bond. I know they will be that much happier.


                                                                                    • vanessa
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                                                                                        Back at it! Guin and Lancelot are in a 2×2 x-pen. Basically in a litterbox with a panel around each side. I lit up a tea-light candle in one of those warmer pots, with water/lavender oil on top of the flame. Guin was happy to see him. She groomed and made requests. He is sitting still. Not grooming yet. I’ll give him a few hours to relax, then add more plum juice. She seems content. She does enjoy being in the bonding area with him.


                                                                                      • vanessa
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                                                                                          End of the day, Guin is quite happy. I started them this morning in a 4-panel x-pen. This evening I added 2 panels so they have room to get out of the literbox over night. Guin still looks happy. Lancelot acts periodically stressed, although is lying in his relaxed position, and they are eating, drinking, and grooming eachother. He hasn’t ventured out of the litterbox (that I’ve seen), and she hasn’t nipped him.


                                                                                        • vanessa
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                                                                                            Today was decent. I swapped out the blanket they they are sitting on, and gave them a new litter box. This morning I gave them 6&half panels, this evening 7 panels. He expressed interest in leaving the litter box, and as long as he moved slowly and sniffed at her, she allowed him out. If he hopped out quickly, she got defensive. At one point, I stroked her head while he walked around the area. He came up to her and groomed her, and she behaved while I was in the room. So I left, and a short while later he was back in the box. I didn’t see if she chased him back or he he went back himself. So he is still nervous of her in the larger space, but he is making attempts to walk around. I’m keeping towels draped over the x-pen so they can’t see out and get distracted.


                                                                                          • vanessa
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                                                                                              Going well. Last night he stomped his feet, hopped out of the box, and sprawled out. She left him alone. I gave them a salad, put plum juice on her head, they ate, and had a snuggle-fest. This morning he came out of the box to eat his salad with her. She was fine with that 🙂


                                                                                            • vanessa
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                                                                                                This morning was good. Lancelot got otu of his box to eat breakfast. I moved their pen onto the fleece bedding that they’ll eventually share, gave them 8 panels, moved it over to their NIC cube structure, but blocked it off with towels so they can’t see it. And gave them their 7 gallon litter box. All good. Last night and this morning I was doing some woodwork in there, turning the bedroom closet into a bird cage, and the electric tools and hammering had her snuggling up to him. He wasn’t phased by the noise, but she shoved her face under his neck. He moves around when he wants to now, but they both prefer to chill in the litter box. I’m glad to see him get out and sprawl on the fleece. So I think they are ready to have their toys slowly reintroduced. Or maybe as I largen the space, slowly introduce their hidey boxes. This afternoon they were up to 9 panels. Doing good. He is still grooming her. No nips or scuffles that I’ve seen.


                                                                                              • vanessa
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                                                                                                  Take 2 – I think we are over the hump. They are snuggeliscious 🙂 Lancelot does get out of the litterbox which I’m super happy about, but he still needs to move around more. They are up to 10 x-pen panels 🙂


                                                                                                • Ness
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                                                                                                    Yay!!! I’m so happy for you. It does sound like he is way more relaxed and if he is flopping out even if just for short periods of time then he must be getting more comfortable! I think you probably are over the hump and things will just get better and better from now on. Congrats – you definitely deserve it for your perseverance!


                                                                                                  • vanessa
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                                                                                                      I was in the room with my camera and Guin was grooming Lancelot. Then she stuck her face under his neck, and he started grooming her. You can see the size of their litter box here, and the 10mil plastic liner behind the NIC cubes. They are now in a complete 8-panel x-pen hooked up to 5 NIC panels around the litter box. 

                                                                                                      Today she was rather bossy with him. He looked forlorn about being in the litterbox. I changed the box, and she always protests by sitting in it when I want to change it. I have to pick her up and move her, and she hops back into the empty box, trying to chew the puppy pad as I put it in. So once the box was changed, she got nippy with Lancelot. I got them settled down, but he was still offended by her, so I distracted him with shredded carrots. His offended feelings are so dramatic. He turns his back, thumps once, and either faces away from her, or turns his head and glares at her with half-closed eyes. And next thing I know – they are grooming again. I do hope she lets up on him son. But one god thing – he hopped out of the box to greet me when I came home from work. He didn’t come up to the fence, just hopped out and raised his head. He hasn’t done that since I put him and her in the pen together. All progress. 


                                                                                                    • vanessa
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                                                                                                        So today I added a hidey hole to their area. They have probably been staying in the litterbox because I took away the hidey holes during their early bonding. But they are ready for it now. So… I’ve heard plenty of foot stomping – Lancelot wants to run around. He is now grooming her just as much as she grooms him. So that is awesome. I think she may be jealous of his attention. When I come into their enclosure, and he raises his head like he wants to run up to me and start buzzing, she gets in between us and requests grooming.


                                                                                                      • vanessa
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                                                                                                          This evening was difficult to watch. Lancelot seemed sad. He peers over the edge of the box like he wants to get out. He may get out once or twice a week that I see, but I havent’ seen him hop or run around, or move very far from the box. I made their space a little larger and changed all the blankets/towels/fleece. It’s now 36 square feet. Guin runs around and plays, and uses the hidey box, but Lancelot still seems confined to the litter box. I added a second litter box. We’ll see what that does. Tomorrow I’m going to set up a surveillance camera in the room to see what they do when I’m not there. They still groom eachother and snuggle in the litterbox.


                                                                                                        • vanessa
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                                                                                                            This morning I gave them their corrugated tunnel, and their sand box. It’s an extra large enclosed cat litter box with play sand. Guin was running around and standing up to greet me. Lancelot raised his head but remained in the litterbox. So I gave them their salad outside the litterbox, and put Lancelot on the ground next to his salad. That caused Guin to stop eating and flatten herself for grooming. Once I stopped petting Lancelot, he stopped eating and got back in the litterbox. I don’t want him spending so much time in there. I have moved his water bowl far enough away that he has to get out to drink water. Every time I give them a salad, I’ll put him on the ground to eat and pet him so he stays longer.

                                                                                                            They are so snuggly, and she enjoys being with him, and I think I could call them bonded except for his reluctance to leave the litter box, and her insistence on him staying in the litter box.


                                                                                                          • vanessa
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                                                                                                              Gosh Guin was grumpy this evening. Lancelot has been hopping out the box off and on today, and this evening when he hopped out to eat celery, she chased him back in and went back to her chill spot. So I put him next to her and put fruit juice on her head. After stroking them both, he started grooming her. When he paused, she nipped him. So he went back to the box. Then she followed him and they continued to groom. Then I started up with the woodwork, and she hopped out and went back to her chill spot. I feel bad for him. I’ll give them a few more weeks, and “re-neutralize” the space. I’ll see how I feel about their progress in a few weeks. I just feel so bad for him. They act so nicely with eachother in the litterbox. Outside the box, is another story. (Most of the time).


                                                                                                            • vanessa
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                                                                                                                Lancelot needs a break from Guin. Last break was 1 week. This time I”m going to give them a 4 week break. He is scared of her. His only safe place is the litter box. She doesn’t harass him there, and they groom and cuddle, but he can barely step out of the box. I don’t like watching him live in his litterbox. So I separated them today. I put him back in his favorite spot and he didn’t realise that he was alone again, and he was too nervous to hop over to the litterbox, so he pooped where he was. Made me sad. Once he realized that she was on the other side of the fence, he went to his box, pooped again, then went back to spot and sprawled out. 4 weeks from now I have work travel coming up. I could take them with me – it’s a 5-hour drive. A hotel room might be a good boning area. Very neutral. But if that doesn’t work, then I’m going to keep them as singles 🙁 It just seems at the moment that he doesn’t like her, he’s scared of her, she is being very bossy and mean, and although they groom in the litterbox, she is the only one who is happy with the arrangement. She was a total sweetheart with her first husbun. Maybe it helped that he was very dominant, and he liked her.

                                                                                                                I am also going to cordon off an area for the cat. Guins first pal ruled the roost – including the cat. Now that he is gone, the cat rules. She makes Guin get out of her way, which I don’t want. I don’t want anyone being mean to anyone.
                                                                                                                🙁


                                                                                                              • Ness
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                                                                                                                  Very sorry you didn’t get to where you wanted to this time. I feel your frustration.

                                                                                                                  When you have them separated can they still see/smell/hear each other? I know that everyone says they should be able to but I wonder if its worth switching that up for the next 4 weeks. I am suggesting this because I think it may have helped my two. When Roger broke his leg before they were bonded, I had him inside as I was giving him daily medication and didn’t want his cast to get wet if it rained. Frost remained outside. For the first week Frost seemed subdued like he didn’t know where Roger had gone – even though they weren’t friends at all he still seemed to miss him.

                                                                                                                  When Roger was fully recovered and I started bonding them again I still had to go slow and there were still scuffles and the odd fight but it progressed much quicker. Maybe I’m putting human emotions onto the rabbits but I wonder if I was successful because they did have a sort of connection which they both missed and were happy to have it back. Food for thought.


                                                                                                                • vanessa
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                                                                                                                    Good point. I know that when I separate them, she seems to miss him for the first few days, then gets on with her life. It might be good to keep them in separate rooms for the week leading up to my work travel, then do the bonding in the hotel room. In the mean time, I am moving her stuffed rabbit around every time I’m in there. Perhaps she got use to the stuffed rabbit sitting still, so she wants Lancelot to sit still? Not sure. She likes her stuffed bunny. Cuddles it, grooms it. Lancelot ignores his.


                                                                                                                  • vanessa
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                                                                                                                      Tomorrow I’m heading out for a 5-hour drive to my work destination for the next 2 weeks. I’ll be taking Guinevere and Lancelot with, to pick up their bonding again. A hotel room should be nice and neutral. At the same time – I will also take Avalon and Morgana with, because Morgana is still on antibiotics. Her wounds fromt he flystrike are closed, but until the scabs are gone, and the fur is grown back, I want to be able to check on her every day.
                                                                                                                      So… I’ll take with 2 x-pens 2 sets of NIC cubes, 2 10-mil plastic sheets, 4 blankets, puppy pee pads, hay, pellets, food/water dishes, 3 sets of cardboard boxes, 3 tunnels, and Morgana’s medicine. I’ll keep the 2 pairs where they can’t see each other, so Guin and Lancelot can focus on bonding. I know they will be able to smell eachother. I plan on putting Guin and Lancelot together during the day, and separate at night. When I get back, Morgana will be finished with her antibiotics, and I want to put her and Avalon in Guins side of the bedroom, and Guin with Lancelot in his side. With a blanket covering the divider fence so the 2 pairs can’t see eachother yet, but can still smell eachother. I’ll keep them like that for a month before removing the visual barrier.
                                                                                                                      For the car ride – I’ll have Avalon and Lancelot in the large dog crate, and Guin and Lancelot in the smaller bunny crate. The bunny crate is wire, see-through. The dog crate is plastic with holes, they can’t really see out. I’ll offer them water to drink when I stop for myself (typically every 1.5-2 hours).

                                                                                                                      My boyfriend had an interesting idea – Guin and Avalon have similar personalities. Avalon and Morgana have similar personalities. I don’t want to break up Avalon and Morgana, but I do want to try bonding a trio/quartet – after I have hopefully completely bonded Guin and Lancelot.

                                                                                                                      So – Tomorrow evening I’ll arrive at the hotel with 4 bunnies… and start the 3rd attempt at bonding Guin and Lancelot.


                                                                                                                    • vanessa
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                                                                                                                        Here we are at the hotel. I decided to leave Avalon and Morgana at home with my boyfriend. It would have been too difficult to bring 2 pairs with, while trying to bond one pair. So…  here are Guin and Lancelot in the travel cage at the hotel.

                                                                                                                        Guin’s perspective: Mom brought that horrid vacuum cleaner into my room today. I was petrified. Then she put me in the travel cage full of fresh hay. Yummy. I love fresh hay. Then she put Lancelot in with me. I was so happy to be with him again. We went for a looooong 5-hour car ride. Car rides don’t bother me anymore. Lancelot was in the cage with me, and I snuggled him every way I knew how. It was fantastic. We are at the hotel now, and I don’t want to leave the cage. The room is unfamiliar to me, and I would much rather stay in the cage with the fresh hay and Lancelot. I plan on snuggling and grooming him all evening. 

                                                                                                                        Lancelot’s perspective: Mom brought the vacuum cleaner into Guins half of the room. I don’t understand why Guin puts up such a fuss at that stupid vacuum cleaner. Mom did disturb my sleep with it though. Then she put Guin and me in the travel cage. I was unhappy about that. We went for a loooooong car ride. Car rides don’t bother me one bit. I tried to ignore Guin but she wouldn’t stop snuggling me and grooming me. So after a while I gave in and snuggled her back. She had better be nice to me. The last time mom tried to make us live together, Guin was nippy, then nice, then nippy, then nice, etc. How is a guy supposed to feel about that?!? We are at the hotel. She tasted like apple juice, so I licked it all off her. She seemed to like it. I just liked the apple juice. I guess I’ll just sit still in this cage and see what happens. 


                                                                                                                      • vanessa
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                                                                                                                          Last night was good. The snuggled and groomed all evening. I did get woken up to some cage rattling and stomping. Not sure if it was a scuffle. Could have been Lancelot bumping the glass dish against the cage, and stomping because he is unhappy about the new location, and the 27 square foot of floor space. This evening I’ll let him out for a short while. I’ll put Guin in the bathroom while I do that. I don’t want her claiming the bonding area in his absence. She is totally content with the arrangements. The space doens’t bother her, as long as she has Lancelot there to snuggle. And she is not just snuggling for consolement, she is purring and happy.


                                                                                                                        • vanessa
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                                                                                                                            Month 3: Attempt 3: Day 2

                                                                                                                            Guin spends a small amount of time outside the cage, pooping along the fence, and hanging out close to the cage, but she is nervous of the new surrounds.I put their greens outside the cage, and their water bowl outside the cage, but the water is where Lancelot can reach it from the ramp. I haven’t seen him step off the ramp onto the floor. Other than last night’s thumping, he seems very content. They are both enjoying mutual cuddling and grooming. Her grooming definitely helps his oozing tear ducts. Sometimes his eyelids get pink and puffy with irritation from the oozing. I wipe his eyes with cotton balls and warm sterile solution which helps. But her grooming makes it very much better. (I have asked the vet about his weepy eyes, he said probably environmental, but I think it could also be blocked tear ducts. He has had dental work and does not show other signs of pain, and eats well.)

                                                                                                                            When I step into the bonding area, she runs back to his side. Not sure what that’s about. I suspect she is jealous and wants all his attention, and doesn’t want me to give him attention. I may be wrong though.

                                                                                                                            I’m just glad I haven’t seen any nipping, and he looks happy to be with her. We’ll see how this evening’s thumping goes. I suspect it may just be that he is unhappy with the smaller living area. I noticed a few nights at home, he was thumping in my bedroom under the bed. The next day he had loose cecotroughs. So perhaps his belly didn’t feel good and he thumped over it. I stopped giving him all fruits, including carrots. No thumping since, and beautiful cecotroughs.


                                                                                                                          • vanessa
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                                                                                                                              Month 3: Attempt 3: Day3

                                                                                                                              This morning I let them both out of the bonding area for about an hour, to stretch their legs. Guin only stepped out after seeing Lancelot step out (she won’t leave the bedroom at my house). They both settled for a nap in opposite corners. So I put them back after an hour, and now that I trust them int he hotel room, I’ll let them spend the night in the hotel room. I want Lancelot to have abreak and stretch his legs. And hopefully Guin enjoys it so much that she attributes it to him! I hope… She has been really good though. No nipping. He still expects it, so he stays in the cage while she is in the bonding area. We’ll see how this evening goes. But so far so good. Nothing negative to report.
                                                                                                                              Guin just found a childs toy car under the bed – she is pushing it around the room. Really cute. I need to get a picture of it…


                                                                                                                            • vanessa
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                                                                                                                                Just a cute picture – Lancelot wouldn’t come out of the cage in the hotel room this evening, but Guin  is gobbling down a bell pepper 🙂


                                                                                                                              • BB & Tiny
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                                                                                                                                  So you take two cages with you when you travel ?


                                                                                                                                • vanessa
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                                                                                                                                    Perplexing. Guin is really nice to him in their bonding area, and they groom eachother and cuddle. Last night when I opened their gate and let them in the rest of the hotel room, she hopped out first, and by 5am, he was still in his cage. So I picked him up and put him down on the ground. They settled on opposite ends again, and when he tried to come over to her side, she grunted and hopped behind him to shuffle him on his way. No nipping, but she didn’t want him there. So he stayed in his corner and I put a litter box with food and water nearby so he didn’t have to choose between making the scary dash, or pooping where he was. This morning I put them back in the bonding area and they are sweet ad cuddly as ever.

                                                                                                                                    (Last night I picked u everything possible to bunny-prof the room, including unplugging and raising all the chords. I know that Lancelot is well behaved with free roam, but I wasn’t sure about Guin yet. She pulled down the phone cable – and she cut it in half! So I’ll head over to the hardware store and get a new cable. If they don’t have, I’ll splice the current cable and get to Walmart this weekend.I need to get her some chew toys…)


                                                                                                                                  • vanessa
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                                                                                                                                      Month 3: Attempt 3: Day 5
                                                                                                                                      Reading Paradigm’s posts, I need to figure out how to get Lancelot out of the litter box. Guin is a bully, and he is afraid of her. In the box, they are snuggly. But he won’t leave. I’m in a hotel room with them, working 14 hour days, so no real toys or time. Just hoping they will work it out in a neutral space. She is SUPER snuggly with him. But he is still afraid of her.


                                                                                                                                    • vanessa
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                                                                                                                                        Hi Bunlove, I take the one travel cage, and 2 x-pens. They ride together in the cage, and I set up one x-pen against the wall for a bonding area, and I attatch 2 x-pens to give them room to hop if I can’t let them loose in the hotel room. Guin misbehaved the first night loose. Lancelot is well behaved This evening they are both out. I do take with 2 smaller carry crates for vet visits, but they travel together in a cage. It’s a lot of stuff to pack. I also bring with a blanket or 2, bedding material, hay, for, veggies, toys, dishes, saline solution and antibiotic ointment for Lancelot if his eyes act up.


                                                                                                                                      • vanessa
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                                                                                                                                          Progress today with Lancelot… I took him out of the box last night and penned up an area for Guin so they could play separately and not see eachother. He had a blast. This mornign I rearranged the hidey hole box that she dominates, so that she would spend more time in it, and he would get a break. That prompted him to stick his head over the edge of the box. So I took him out again and a few more times, and he ended up playing around her box for a minute, and then hopping out on his own for very short periods. Which is great. She did nip him once this evening when he tried to share the space behind the bed that they like to run through. But he keeps on trying to approach her, which is also progress. So when she looks like she is about to pounce and scare him off, I smoosh her head down and he gets to run past unharrassed. I want her to equate his freedom to her getting petted. He even made his own way back to the liter box and food dish this evening. That’s a first – when they are both out of the litterbox. So If I can trick her into leaving him alone, his confidence should keep building, and he’ll spend more time out of the box, and like her more. That’s my plan for them at least… I look forward to when they can run one behind the other in play, while maneuvering through the obstacle courses laid by humans… just like Avalon and Morgana.


                                                                                                                                        • vanessa
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                                                                                                                                            Bunlove, I also bring with 2 litterboxes. I use the 9-gallon mixing tubs sold in the masonry section at lowes, in case I want to separate them.


                                                                                                                                          • vanessa
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                                                                                                                                              Doing Great! Lancelot has done a good amount of play and running around and exploring this evening. Sometimes I think he is playing with Guin, by running up to her when he knows she is going to chase him back. I might be wrong. It looks like he is seeing that although she is a bully, she isn’t attacking him. Her nips and are light, and mostly just a bump with her nose. I put them in a bunny smoosh, and they gave eachotehr a few licks and then separated. I am so happy so see him moving around again 🙂 I have a long day tomorrow so I’ll leave them out overnight to figure out some more of their rabbit business. (I did a double take on electrical chords after she chewed in half the telephone cable…)


                                                                                                                                            • vanessa
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                                                                                                                                                Month 3: Attempt 3: Day 8

                                                                                                                                                I had an overnight away from the hotel room last night. I left them with extra food and water, and in their 27 square foot bonding area. WHen I got back, they didn’t want me to stop petting them. It was so cute. Lancelot was following me like a puppy, and Guin was flattened to the floor for petting. Guin is still grumpy and pushy with him, grunting when he stops grooming and moves off, grunting when he approaches “her” cardboard box. While I was on my road trip I stopped at the best stocked petsmart I’ve ever seem and got them some chew toys, wicker balls, and a large wicker hidey thing. Lancelot isn’t as afraid of her, although he does respect her grunts. So I’m at the point where I can leave them both loose in the hotel room, and although she grunts and pushes him around slightly, he still gets about. He is not as active as he is on his own yet. They are still cuddly in the litter box.


                                                                                                                                              • vanessa
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                                                                                                                                                  Month 3: Attempt 3: Day 10

                                                                                                                                                  Still doing good. Guin groomed Lancelot outside of the litterbox for the first time (that I saw) yestarday. Today he did a bunny flop, first time I’ve seen that from him. I’ve seen him lie on his side, but today I saw him do the twitchy bunny flop – in order to lie on his side. So even though she is bossy, he is still content, happy, and learning “her rules”. This weekend I’ll be back home. Morgana and Avalon are currently in Guins half of the room. I’ll put up a blanket over the divider so they can’t see through to the other half, and I’ll keep it like that for at least a month, or as long as it takes, for Guin and Lancelot to get use to living together in his half of the room. Then I’ll slowly shift the blanket, so they have a foot of visual, then 2 feet, then three feet, etc, until they have complete visual of the other half of the room. Then I’ll leave them to get to know the other pair – for a few months, before I consider a trio or quartet. I’m happy with Guin ad Lancelot’s progress. It’s not nearly as smooth as Guin and Merlin – or Avalon and Morgana, but all progress is good progress.


                                                                                                                                                • vanessa
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                                                                                                                                                    Month 3: Attempt 3: Day 12

                                                                                                                                                    Well I’m baffled. Guin likes Lancelot. She loves snuggling and grooming. When I separate them for an hour or 2 so he can run around un-harassed, she covers him with kisses when I put them back together. He hops out the litter box and can move around in a 20 square foot area before she tells him to go back to the litter box. He tries to approach her when she is relaxing on the opposite side of the room, but she chases him back. She has groomed him on several occasions outside the litterbox. So that is definitely progress. He recognizes that she isn’t nipping/biting anymore, but only nudging with her nose. He still flinches though, but feels confident enough to get out the litterbox. I can leave them out together in the bedroom, and they will eat, drink, and flop, but if he tries to maximize his floor space, she will make him go back to the litterbox. They don’t hang out together outside the litterbox. No flopping and cuddling together, that is only inside the litterbox. I suppose I should look at the progress – it is good. But wow… it’s as if they can’t decide if they want to bond or not.
                                                                                                                                                    Neither of them has ever tried to hump the other. I suspect Guin might bond best with a more confident bunny, and Lancelot with a more relaxed bunny, or he might prefer to be a single bunny. He follows me round like a puppy dog.
                                                                                                                                                    I need to break this litterbox habit. I think when I get home this weekend, I’ll make a 4×4 bonding area for the day time, and put down puppy pee pads, then hay. No litter box. Instead, one giant acceptable pee area. That way he has no “safe spot” to retreat to, and there is no “bannishment” that Guin can assign him to. When I get home from work, I’ll let them out for a few hours in his half of the room, (maybe), and once I’ve put the dogs behind the sunroom doors, I’ll let Lancelot out (usual routine) to run around in the hallway, and my bedroom. But I’ll have to do some really good bunny proofing to let Guin out. I’ll let him out first for 30 minutes, then her.
                                                                                                                                                    Morgana and Avalon will be on the other side of the critter room (in Guin’s old half of the room) – with a blanket covering the divider fence, so Avalon can’t see Guin and Lancelot. He chases and nips when he gets too exited, like when he sees something new – or a new bunny. He use to share a divider fence with Guin and Merlin in the front yard, but his bunny brain forgets very quickly.


                                                                                                                                                  • vanessa
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                                                                                                                                                      Month 3: Attempt 3: Day 15
                                                                                                                                                      I’m calling them bonded! He isn’t as snuggly with her as she and her first husbun were, and he is still very subordinate. He has never tried to mount her, and she hasn’t tried to mount him either. She has stopped nipping and nudging. If she runs up to him now, it is to say hi. He still shows moments of hesitation. Today he was thumping up on his third level and then “assumed the position”. I quickly scooped him up and put him in the litterbox. He needed to pee. So I put a second litterbox up on the third level for him. They have been spending time together outside the litterbox, lying down a foot away from each other, and then grooming each other. I bunny-proofed my bedroom for Guin (she is a chewer), but she hasn’t stepped out of her room yet. Lancelot runs around my bedroom at night and is happy as he always was. Runs up to me for snuggles like he use to.
                                                                                                                                                      Thank you for your audience and advice 🙂


                                                                                                                                                    • vanessa
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                                                                                                                                                        Update on Guin and Lancelot – now I know the difference between tentatively bonded – and bonded. 

                                                                                                                                                        I had called them bopnded in October. THey were living comfortably together, but soon Guin started getting nippy, and I had to give Lancelot another litter box, coz she kicked him out of their large shared box. He spent more time out of their bedroom and in my room. I have been feeding them separately so she doesn’t hog all the food, coz she was chasing him away from the salad plate and not allowing him in the main litterbox where I give them access to their pellet bowls. I was on teh verge of splitting them up, and keeping him as a single buny, and bonding Guin with Morgana and Avalon. I had done a few sessions with the three. But by now, Guin and Lancelot have moved past that uncomfortable tentative bond, and are now quite nicely bonded in my opinion. Lancelot still does not play in his original condo – Guin dominates that. He still enjoys playing in my bedroom and in the guest room, but he buzzes at me every day, which he had only done once or twice, inbetween meeting Guin, and living in the same space as her. Him buzzing at me, tells me he is relaxed enough to be happy. During the tentative bonded phase, he wasn’t quite runnign up to me in her presence, but was still guarded. Now he acts just as happy as he was before meeting her. I’m so happy about that. He still spends time in the other 2 bedrooms in the house, but when he is in her room, he snuggles up to her. His weepy eyes are looking great – thanks to her grooming him. Better than my warm compress. In the mornings when I give them breakfast, he is usually in one of the other bedrooms. He runs after me when I turn on the lights. When I open the door to their room ( there is a bunny flap that he uses to get through the door), Guin is waiting for me (she won’t leave the bedroom), and she runs out into the hallway (this week was the first time she has done that ever), to greet him. It is so cute. SHe is crazy happy to see him. Showers him with kisses. Won’t even eat untill she has showered him with more kisses. So although they spend some time every way in separate rooms, they are extremely happy, which makes me extremely happy 🙂

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                                                                                                                                                    Forum BONDING Guinevere & Lancelot