Grooming, when wet hands aren’t enough…

[manic_muncher]

So Bumpy has recovered from a long night of gas… I’m thinking it’s because of all his fur.  This is his 3rd time of having the problem, and this time it lasted for about 14 hrs.  I was terrified.  I saw his “string of pearls” poop, which has seemingly happened for each time these attacks have come on.

I’m guessing it’s because I don’t properly groom him.  He HATES it so much, but I can’t continue letting him have his way, or I think it will kill him.  But what do I do??  How much is too much grooming at one time?  He can’t STAND being held in one place.  He HATES being made to do anything he doesn’t want to.  I’m afraid of stressing him out just by holding him down and combing.  How long is too long??

Using treats to try and make him stay does not work.  As soon as he knows what is happening, he is trying to get away.  I have NOT tried putting him up on a counter with a towel because I’m terrified he will somehow jump off and hurt himself.  I don’t know what to do anymore.  I just know I need to do something, because if I don’t start helping him with this extra hair, it’s gonna end up killing him, and I definitely don’t want that.

I have the proper comb, I just need help on judging his stress limitations maybe?  Thanks guys. 

[jerseygirl]

Mmm, tricky one.
It’s thought hair accumulating in the gi tract is more due to a gut slow down, but not the cause of gut slow down…
So I’d maybe investigate some other reasons too as to why he’s having these episodes.

What’s his hay intake like?
Does he eat a lot of cardboard or paper by any chance?
Has he had any other health concerns?

Grooming is still a good idea. I wanted to suggest the countertop as it really does keep them in one place. Totally understand your concerns though!
I’ll often use the washer top as I can completely block exit routes with my body.
I’ve also put them in a deep laundry trough or sat in a bath tub with them. Fur. Everywhere.

Problem with them being on floor level is they’ll constantly try bolt, then if your getting them back in place over and over the stress can increase.

Some have found Rescue Remedy to be helpful for buns at times. It wouldn’t hurt to try… Maybe give some on a treat before you attempt a grooming session.

[Deleted User]

Oh gosh manic, I was gonna say do what I do and live in a fluffy house, hahaha – TILL I read that it may be causing health concerns…. my poor Bumpy!
The thought of grooming Henry sends me into more of a panic than him, good grief! I do like Kate’s idea of the deep laundry tub – if I ever find myself in that position, I reckon I’d try that first. Honestly I can’t think of anything better – but that won’t surprise you, haha!

[manic_muncher]

He actually really likes his hay. BUT! Ok this is gonna sound off… but… according to his -weight- he is fed twice the amount of usual pellets. When I cut back to 1/8 cup of pellets a day, not only does he start throwing tantrums (throwin his food bowl around viciously and racing back and forth) but he actually begins to get thin. So he is fed 1/8 cup twice a day. Which DOES bring his hay intake down. Maybe I can alternate, 1/8 cup once a day on one day, 1/8 cup twice a day on alternating. I don’t know. Not too much on cardboard eating, though he does do it once in awhile.

I do like the sound of the deep laundry tub, I actually have one of those that he can’t escape out of easily, especially if I am messing with him at the same time, I’ll try that. Thanks jerseygirl!

Andi, I DO live in a fluffy house! I vacuum and sweep away in between vacuums any extra fur, but he grooms sooo much, and is so fluffy. Honestly, any ideas of an actual fluffy bun have gone totally out of the window. I don’t know how people do it!

Thanks guys, really appreciate it!

[Reeem]

My bun doesnt hate grooming but i put her on a table in the balcony and close her eyes and hold her head , she seems to enjoy it more;D

[JackRabbit]

Have you tried combing him during salad time? Maybe start slow with the comb in sight but just petting while he eats, then pet/comb a little, the comb a little and lengthen the amount of time? Moshi doesn’t like it when we do this but he tolerates it because he really wants that salad.

Pellets and hay…. Moshi is definitely still Bumpy’s “brother”! Same thing with weight and pellets, but Moshi’s poopy butt flares up with too few pellets (I know, odd bunny). Mosh gets 1/8 cup pellets 2x per day. He still eats tons of hay though. His gas seems to come from eating too fast. I’m wondering if Bumpy’s hay eating is affected by your change in hay since BunnyBales went out of business?

[jerseygirl]

… since BunnyBales went out of business?…

Ah! So that why I can’t get their site to load fully? That’s a shame.

He actually really likes his hay. BUT! Ok this is gonna sound off… but… according to his -weight- he is fed twice the amount of usual pellets. When I cut back to 1/8 cup of pellets a day, not only does he start throwing tantrums (throwin his food bowl around viciously and racing back and forth) but he actually begins to get thin. So he is fed 1/8 cup twice a day. Which DOES bring his hay intake down. Maybe I can alternate, 1/8 cup once a day on one day, 1/8 cup twice a day on alternating. I don’t know. Not too much on cardboard eating, though he does do it once in awhile.

Could you supplement with treat hats like oat and wheat? That might keep his weight stable.

Somewhere I read about Anerican Pet Diner probi pellets helping some buns. They look similar make up to regular pellets. Maybe you could give a mix of his regular type (1/8) plus some of these. He may not feel he’s missing out then. Too funny that he throws a fit. Aren’t they precious?!

@ JR, those pellets might interest you also. Have you ever tried them for your rabbits?

[edited by jerseygirl]

[JackRabbit]

Jersey – I looked up the ingredients. I don’t know much about the listed things, but beet pulp is the 4th ingredient and from what I read online, it can cause gas in rabbits. Also looks like alot of protein and less fiber than Oxbow adult. I’m also a little leary about pellets made for rabbits/guinea pigs/chinchillas because I thought their nutritional needs were different. I really appreciate the link (always interested in anything that could benefit my babies!), but think I’ll stick with Oxbow for now.

[manic_muncher]

I have tried grooming him while eating. He won’t have it. Constantly hopping around, hop hop hop hop, just dodging me. He doesn’t want to be touched while eating, because he KNOWS I’m trying to do something horrible to him. ugh.

He still eats hay with gusto, he LOVES hay, he loves to eat period. Honestly, I think I could grab a handful of shredded paper and he’d run for it just like it was hay, he’s very greedy. BUT! I can’t be interfering with him getting his munch on! I know if I try holding him still he will just stop eating. He’s very stubborn and I thought I could let him just be him and do his own thing, but obviously I can’t. And now that he’s so spoiled with having his way, I just don’t know what to do other than hold him down (hand pressing him to the floor/table/whatever) and forcing him to be still!

As long as he feels safe, like with the cage in between us, he’ll come running up to me when I call and accept head pets and be all sweet. If there is no barrier, he keeps his distance, other than when he gives me the occasional head bump to the foot or ankle letting me know at that point it is ok for me to stroke his head. I know I need a better relationship with him, but I just don’t seem to be able to get there with how my household is at the moment.

I think its going to end up with him just hating me walking anywhere towards him at all, I’ve nothing to offer him but a comb, gas drops, or what appears to be now, annoying feeding sessions with a comb.

[manic_muncher]

JR- I forgot one thing you mentioned… Mosh eating too fast. Maybe that really is the culprit with Bumpy’s gas issues, as jersey pointed out that the hair isn’t thought to be the cause, but a symptom… maybe it IS strictly because Bumpy is such a pig.

I think I will go back to feeding him his pellets in the cat treat ball that I used to use with him. Slows his munching down a lot…. and still try to find a way to comb him. lol

[LBJ10]

Is he getting enough water? I agree with Jersey that fur doesn’t cause stasis, stasis causes fur to accumulate.

I also wanted to say that I’m happy to see you. I was just thinking about you and wondering if everything was okay since you haven’t been on.

[Sr. Melangell]

I don’t know about gas in rabbits but when I fed Olly too much broccoli he was OK but let me know by turning round and trumping in my face a few times, bunnies groom themselves like cats do, but if Olly needs a brush I’ll need a vice, lol but I have found some wipes for bunnies, usually for cleaning dirty bottoms and other little emergencies, if I wipe him with it quickly he knows he needs grooming and will start to clean himself, bunnies in the wild clean themselves and don’t get ill, Olly is very boisterous, if I let him run about and he throws himself down after he has wrecked the place he will let me brush him whilst he lays down and then he will groom himself, but he won’t let me brush his tummy, he will do that himself.

[manic_muncher]

Thanks LBJ, I’ve been lurking here and there. I haven’t had much time to really get too involved so haven’t posted. I would hate to post and then not respond back! There WAS two days prior to this most recent incident where his water ran dangerously low, so perhaps that contributed.

I just gave him his nightly pellets in his treat ball, but apparently it wasn’t dispensing fast enough because he threw it across his pen and into the water dish. So… waiting for that to fully dry now to try again… this is making me think maybe JR is onto something with the gluttony making him gulp too much air while inhaling his pellets. Will open it up a tad bit more to allow more pellets to come out and hopefully it will appease him.

[JackRabbit]

Does he do salad the same way? Tearing salad into small bites slowed Marlee down, but inhales salad too. We’ve even resorted to not only hand-feeding Moshi his salad, but hubby is also making Moshi bite off pieces of the bites of salad to get him to slow down. Its insane, but Moshi is like a little vaccuum cleaner with food!

[manic_muncher]

I’m.. not sure how to gauge that. LOL They do everything fast? I think he eats his salad faster if its smaller. The big leaves he has to move all around and that seems to slow him down a bit? I dunno, he loves his kale, but I will say he doesn’t like being handfed BECAUSE it slows him down… so there’s that. Yes… Moshi and Bumpy are definitely two peas from the same pod.

[jerseygirl]

Shame about the treat ball. Those are great normally. He’s a stroppy boy! Lol

He sounds a lot like Rumball in the way he’ll accept pats.
Makes it hard when you do need to handle them.

I find if I put an empty litter tray down I can usually get him to hop into that and take him to where I need. He copes with that much better then being held.

Jersey – I looked up the ingredients. I don’t know much about the listed things, but beet pulp is the 4th ingredient and from what I read online, it can cause gas in rabbits.
~JackRabbit

Yikes. Serves me right for speed reading. That’d be high in sugar too right? Isn’t it sugar beet? Unfortunately the powder they offer is exactly the same.
Better off getting a straight probiotic powder with nothing else.

[manic_muncher]

Treat ball cleaned out and re-issued. He was annoyed at the slowness, but managed to get all the pellets out without throwing it in his water bowl.

That’s a really good idea jerseygirl, I’ve never really tried to get him to go somewhere on his own to my advantage like that. Other than calling him up onto a chair to handfeed pellets and try to pet him or comb him. Maybe I can incorporate that strategy and “train” him. Thanks for the idea!

[JackRabbit]

Jersey — I *think* beet pulp is after the sugar is removed, but what’s left is high in protein, calcium, and something else. There were like 3 things that were high in calcium. It was that and the pellets fiber % max being close to Oxbow’s min. The more I deal with bunnies and the older I get (!), the more I learn that it really IS all about fiber!!!! LOL!

[manic_muncher]

-sigh- Clyde is having trouble today. His first episode of gas. Unsure how long he has been feeling bad. He ate hay and pellets this morning. Drops and belly rubs administered, and me forcing him to hop around. -crosses fingers-

[jerseygirl]

{{{Clyde}}}

So you’ve had to change their hay recently?

Maybe it’s one of their the greens triggering this? (Though, Bumpy andClydes episode could be completely unrelated).

Any new treats been introduced?

Is there anything occurring around home that might make them a bit stressed? Neighbours renovating or roadworks?

[manic_muncher]

Thanks jerseygirl. No, nothing new. As for their hay, they’ve been eating this hay for a few months now. This was his first episode, after a pellet feeding (he did eat pellets) hmmmm This IS a new bag of pellets….. same brand but new bag. I wonder if something may not have been stored right and it could be fermenting…. hmmm -runs off to smell the tub-

[manic_muncher]

ok as far as my human nose can detect, they smell ok. Clyde just now finally started nibbling on some kale, and then went to the hay, so I think we’re thru the woods.

I have a question… could being fat be a factor?? He is pretty fat right now, I’ve told hubby we have to stop feeding the pair as much, but it’s really hard to tell with him and Bonnie since they are meat rabbit breeds and are very.. well.. meaty looking. But yea.. both Bonnie and Clyde have pretty round bellies.

[JackRabbit]

I’m guessing that weight would only play into getting gas if the bunny was less active because of it. Weight can increase the chance of arthritis down the road, but Clyde’s still really young. Round bellies aren’t necessarily a sign of fat, maybe their bellies just look like that because of breed or fur type? I swear I’m beginning to think fur causes gas!

[jerseygirl]

I’ve wondered on and off for a while now whether it’s greens that are culprits for a lot of these upsets. I know some buns can’t have “x” or “y” veg yet others will do fine on them. Some are sensitive and some have iron stomachs!

When I started reading about alkalising foods for people, I realised a lot are on the rabbit greens list. The rabbit gut is a lot more acidic then ours.

I wonder how the pH of commercial greens compares to natural forage? I’ve read accounts of a lot of rabbits doing much better on a “natural” diet. Though, a lot of that is probably due to nixing pellets and their getting the proper fibre that forage provides.

[Eepster]

Posted By jerseygirl on 7/24/2015 11:57 AM

Jersey – I looked up the ingredients. I don’t know much about the listed things, but beet pulp is the 4th ingredient and from what I read online, it can cause gas in rabbits. 

~JackRabbit

Yikes. Serves me right for speed reading. That’d be high in sugar too right? Isn’t it sugar beet? Unfortunately the powder they offer is exactly the same.

Better off getting a straight probiotic powder with nothing else.

The package says that it’s only meant as a supplement, so it isn’t meant to replace a significant quantity of hay and pellets.  One would probably need to mix probiotic powder with a similarly high calorie treat, such as mashed banana, anyway.  

Theoretically, if a probiotic is going to work and really change the gut flora, you should only need to give it once or twice and then the beneficial bacteria should start reproducing on their own.  It isn’t something you need to give all the time, just a wee bit when gut flora gets killed off by something.

[Author]

Messages