Advice please?

[marinabunny]

This has been a long ride with Fluffy… stasis issues, surgery, possible seizures? (that will be another topic).

Where we are sitting at right now: Fluffy’s been in and out of the vets for constant stasis. She’s had all the tests- bloodwork, x-rays etc. with results perfectly normal! Now recently she has begun to get VERY picky about her hay, she wont touch it at all and I know her teeth need to be done. The last time she had her teeth done was while she was under for surgery – in April. Last month I took her to the vet again for stasis and told them to check her teeth and they said “yeah she’s got a bit of points and redness on the tongue” but didn’t make it sound too serious and said we should deal with that when she is more stable.  Well, the problem is, I don’t know if she ever is going to be fully stable and don’t think she’ll ever be 100% (b/c of her other health issues). However I think she may be a bit more stable now, not eating hay and poops are slow to pass, but sometimes she’s energetic. I want to book her for a dental now because I fear that if I wait too long the problem will just get worse and she’ll go into full blown stasis  Should I just go ahead and book one? If shes not eating hay now, and the problem is in her teeth, she probably never will.

 

 

[marinabunny]

Another problem is deciding on the vets. I have 3 options:

1) My usual vet which is charging $1000
  
2) A vet an hour away that really specializes in rabbits. However, I didn’t like how we were treated last time. I called again and they (understandably) want to see her for an exam first. Since we live far away I asked if we could do the exam and dental workup on the same day but if we want to do that they wont have an appt till next month! I could come in next week for a normal checkup & based on the severity of the teeth, they *may* be able to do it earlier than that. But it;s going to be a hassle to get there since I am going to have to take the train. Cost is $826

3) Or I could call around other vets, many of them are not as knowledgeable as the two above though. There is one really close to me (I know she grinds the bunny’s teeth not clips them), and they see many exotic pets- birds, ferrets, etc and are part of the exotic mammal association. I am thinking of giving them a try, book a normal exam and see how I feel about them?

[LBJ10]

Hmm, I suppose you and your vet will need to weigh things. Do the benefits outweigh the potential risk?, etc. I know you have had problems with different vets and I know that’s frustrating. I suppose you could make an appointment with the one that is an hour away. You don’t have to keep the appointment, you know. In the meantime, you could try this 3rd vet. Like you said, you could take her there for a checkup and see for yourself how they are. If you’re comfortable, then you can proceed with them and cancel the other appointment.

[jerseygirl]

Those quotes are high! What are they doing for $1000 or $826?
Is that just the anaesthetic and dental trimming?

[LBJ10]

I assumed that included the exam and everything else???

[jerseygirl]

The first vet is already aware of dental issues though. Would they need do checkup beforehand?

Marinabunny, some people have helped out their dental buns by softening their pellet feed. Just to get them by until the next trim. Also, a little metacam can give relief.
I believe there are pure hay pellets available too. So that might be a way she could get fibre without the extra calories that usual pellets have.
I used to feed Jersey hay pellets because she never ate hay. It helped keep her poos looking healthy.

[marinabunny]

The prices don’t include checkups. Here is what is included for the first vet:

Procedure or Dispensed Item Qty Charge To
Hospitalization & Ward Care Per Day 76.00
Iso Mask Induction with Tranquilizer Med 103.00
Isoflurane/10Min Inc Monitor’g 4 167.60
Teeth – Molar Equilibration */10Min 2 130.00
Small Mammal Skull Dental Rads – 5 View 184.00
Surgical Pack – Dental 71.00
Fluids Intraop.Intravenous 85.20
Pain Management Injection – Metacam 27.50
Medications-Take Home 75.00
Tax… 119.51
———- Total estimate charges… $1038.81

Second vet:

Procedure or Dispensed Item Qty Charge
Hospitalization-Partial Day 64.50
Anesthetic induction (small mammal) 66.00
Anaesthetic – Iso 3 62.25
I.V. fluid therapy (during anaesthetic) 78.00
Oral endoscopy 95.00
Exotic Dental Radiographs 219.50
Teeth – cheek teeth grind (anaesthetic) 56.00
Metacam 0.5% Injection 29.82
Metacam 1.5mg/ml (5ml) 14.50
Cisapride 5mg/ml *MALT* 5 21.30
Critical Care For Herbivores 141 g 22.72
* Mono 35ml Cath Tip Syringe 2.02
Tax… 95.11
———- Total estimate charges… $826.72

My vet likely wouldn’t ask for a checkup beforehand since they have seen her so many times, but still $1000 is a lot. Jerseygirl what are these hay pellets called and where can you get them? Im feeding her oxbow right now and its timothy-based, but it doesn’t make her poo, only hay does!

[jerseygirl]

I got horse pellets that were produced locally. They were 98% hay and didn’t require soaking. Be aware, a lot of horse pellets/cubes need to be soaked first.

These might be suitable (though instructions say to soak)
http://standleeforage.com/product-formats/pellets/timothy-grass/timothy-grass-pellets

They have an orchard grass one too.
Maybe email to find out if they ship to Canada and if they’ll sell a sample size pack first??

Re soaking, it might not be a bad thing for Fluffy if she has dental pain. You won’t want her getting to use to this form of fibre though. You’ll still want to encourage normal hay especially after the dental work.

[Sarita]

Okay, I take my rabbit every 3 months for dental trims – I don’t see a need for (in my opinion) dental x-rays and IV Fluids – my vet never ever does these things for a dental trim.

Why cisapride? As for Critical Care – you may already have this.

Also, I have gotten my vet to take off the hospitalization because it’s not really that – he has to be dropped off for her convenience and that’s about it.

The first vet’s ISO mask Induction with Tranquilizer Meds – what is that? A charge to put the mask on and give the medication? That’s crazy, I’ve never heard a vet charge to do that.

What is an oral endoscopy? And why is the charge so high?

I would want to know what specifically these are.

My vet charges for the dental trim, the iso gas, pain injections and she does charge a follow up exam fee (rather than the full exam) and I think that is about it…it’s about $175.00 every time (approx) depending on how for the actual procedure (the iso gas amount and her trim time varies).

[Bam]

My vet doesn’t do dental X-rays either for a spur removal. My clinic has a special pet dental nurse who performs the removal of spurs (and pulls milk-teeths that won’t spontaneously come loose in puppies of small breed dogs and such procedures), which of course makes it much less expensive. 1000 dollars sounds crazy expensive. If there are spurs they must go whatever a dental x-rays would show, and to check for spurs, they just have to look with an otoscope, which perhaps is what they mean by “dental endoscopy”. And if the problem isn’t solved by the removal of those spurs that have been diagnosed, THEN you can go on and do dental X-rays, imo.

Who owns this vet practice? We have a problem in Sweden (where I am) with risk-capital investment companies buying up animal hospitals and then positively MILKING pet-owners for money by doing all kinds of surplus exams and procedures.

[marinabunny]

The x-rays they said were to check if there is infection/abcess which can only be seen with an x-ray, but it’s optional. The IV fluids im guessing might be because she’s a bit older (5) and has other health issues, i’m not sure I just always thought bunnies that go under anesthesia need IV fluids, no?

Both vets charge for isoflurane induction, I’m not sure why they do. Honestly it does sound weird- charging just for 10 seconds to put a mask on.

I took this straight from the 2nd vet’s website about the oral endoscopy: “The best way to examine the oral cavity in rabbits is with a rigid
endoscope. An endoscope is defined as an instrument that can be introduced into the body to give a view of it’s internal parts— in this case the oral cavity or mouth. This instrument is attached to a video screen — illuminates and magnifies the image making minut details visable.” It’s different from an otoscope which they said “stimulates chewing movement making a thorough examination of the entire mouth impossible.” So I guess its so they can see the VERY back teeth.

Oh and the 2nd vet did “remind” me that costs may be even higher if extractions are needed due to infection. If I recall, when I asked them they said she needed all these things and I could only take off the x-rays and medications if I already had them. The cisapride is gut-stimulant, I guess they want to make sure she doesn’t go into stasis.

Bam- these prices seem to be the norm around here. I remember inquiring about spay costs and the absolute lowest was $300!

I think I am going to make an appointment with the 3rd vet and give them a try.

[jerseygirl]

I think I am going to make an appointment with the 3rd vet and give them a try.

I think that’s a good idea. Despite the reviews, make your own judgement and go with your gut.
Even if you choose not to go with them for dental work, it’s good to meet another vet. It’s another option in case Fluffy need vet care in future. A clinic that might offer consult hours that your regular one doesn’t. It’s good to have back ups for when your regular vet is unavailable.

[marinabunny]

I made an appointment with 3rd vet for Monday. I’m not scheduled with the owner of the clinic who I originally hoped to see, but another doctor who also works there and sees exotic pets and does dentistry. We’ll see how it goes.

[marinabunny]

Ok I have a question, I’ve noticed this rapid breathing/heart rate for a while now. She had X-rays from my regular vet which showed nothing and was put on baytril. It hasn’t improved though, what might this be? I will mention it to the new vets tomorrow.

[marinabunny]

I just brought her in from outside. She is vibrating like mad… her whole body is vibrating I don’t hear any unusual breathing noises/sounds though.
Is anyone please able to answer?

[Sarita]

I’m not sure what the problem is but I would advise you to keep your rabbit inside – who knows what happens outside….

[marinabunny]

Don’t worry she is an indoor bunny! I just let her have supervised play 20-30 mins a day because she enjoys it. But am still worried about the very rapid breathing….

[Roberta]

What are the temps like there? Could it be heat stroke ?

[marinabunny]

Just wanted to update- I went for a check-up today and have a dental booked for Wednesday morning. On the paper w/ the quotes there was no IV fluids or pain injection listed… Sarita I know you said your vet doesn’t do IV fluids so maybe it’s not a big deal. Only thing is I’m kind of afraid, she really isnt looking stable yet and my sister thinks its not a good idea to put her under. For now giving critical care & cisapride and if she doesn’t improve by Wednesday I’m going to cancel it. Ugh. what I wanted to get done so bad I’m now having doubts about.

[jerseygirl]

Did they look in her mouth at this checkup? If they do think she has dental spurs, I wonder if you can ring and request to pick up some metacam
at reception? Perhaps that would get her functioning better before the procedure. Wouldn’t be a bad idea to let them know your concerns anyway.

What did they say about the breathing? Has that gotten better?

[marinabunny]

She looked with an otoscope and said to get a better look we’d have to anaesthize her. I already have metacam from my regular vet which I am giving, I am not sure if its helping though.

When she checked with
the stethoscope she didn’t hear any rattling/abnormal noises in Fluffy’s lungs. Shes not sure the reason for the breathing, it could be due to other things like pain. They gave us the option of repeating X-rays although we already did them at our old vet and nothing showed up

[LBJ10]

Do you feel more comfortable with this vet?

[marinabunny]

Wow so I was set up for Wednesday and then called to rebook (she wasn’t doing well and I wanted to wait) and apparently the doctor who does dentals is no longer accepting new patients?! That doesn’t make any sense since Fluffys dental appt was booked for wed with that specific dr and now she’s not accepting patients.

Y’know this seems suspicious, because the 2nd vet that I was talking about earlier did this same thing. First they were willing to take her, and once they got the files about all her other health problems from my regular vet their like “sorry were not taking new patients”. Something’s fishy…

[marinabunny]

I’m not sure what to do now. Go back to my vet and just pay $1000 :/ I finally found a knowledgeable-enough vet at a reasonable price and close distance and now they had to do this ugh.

[LBJ10]

I’m sorry. Are you able to talk to the vet to see what the deal is? Perhaps there was a misunderstanding with the receptionist?

[marinabunny]

I’m not sure. When I called, the receptionist was like “hold on I need to check with the vet what times she has available” and after a suspiciousingly 30 mins later she gets back to me saying she spoke with the vet and they’re not accepting any more patients. If this was really true, they surely would’ve mentioned that to me when I was there on Monday and wouldn’t have put me in with that dr for Wednesday. The whole staff would’ve known if their vet wasn’t accepting new patients, INCLUDING the other vet that works there (who herself put me in for Wednesday w/ the dental vet).

I call bs. They got the files from my old vet on tues, they probably had a long look at them and decided they didnt wanna do any procedures on my bunny b/c of her previous health issues

[Sarita]

It’s certainly possible that they don’t feel comfortable with treating her…and unfortunately it is the vet’s call to determine whether or not they chose to treat….

[marinabunny]

They could have just told me. I’m so frustrated I always have such bad luck with vets. I just want my bunny treated

[Sarita]

Maybe they didn’t feel comfortable saying that and were trying to be diplomatic…anyway hopefully you find someone to treat her.

[Author]

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