Forum

OUR FORUM IS UP BUT WE ARE STILL IN THE MIDDLE OF UPDATING AND FIXING THINGS.  SOME THINGS WILL LOOK WEIRD AND/OR NOT BE CORRECT. YOUR PATIENCE IS APPRECIATED.  We are not fully ready to answer questions in a timely manner as we are not officially open, but we will do our best. 

You may have received a 2-factor authentication (2FA) email from us on 4/21/2020. That was from us, but was premature as the login was not working at that time. 

BUNNY 911 – If your rabbit hasn’t eaten or pooped in 12-24 hours, call a vet immediately! Don’t have a vet? Check out VET RESOURCES

The subject of intentional breeding or meat rabbits is prohibited. The answers provided on this board are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. It is your responsibility to assess the information being given and seek professional advice/second opinion from your veterinarian and/or qualified behaviorist.

What are we about?  Please read about our Forum Culture and check out the Rules

BUNNY 911 – If your rabbit hasn’t eaten or pooped in 12-24 hours, call a vet immediately!  Don’t have a vet? Check out VET RESOURCES 

The subject of intentional breeding or meat rabbits is prohibited. The answers provided on this board are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet.  It is your responsibility to assess the information being given and seek professional advice/second opinion from your veterinarian and/or qualified behaviorist.

BINKYBUNNY FORUMS

Forum BONDING The Bonding Adventures of Brenna and Indie (advice welcome!)

Viewing 14 reply threads
  • Author
    Messages

    • Ktiernan
      Participant
      25 posts Send Private Message

        Once upon a time…I had a serious compulsion issue when it came to bunnies…

        But really, bonding is incredibly stressful, so I thought I’d have some fun with telling it to some extent. Hope you enjoy! And please share your own stories, advice, encouragement, anything else! So, ahem, once upon a time …

        There was a beautiful princess with fur as white as snow …

        I adopted my baby girl Brenna from the American Rescue League in November 2013. She had been released into the wild and found as a stray, poor dear. It’s notable that she is a ruby-eyed white so how she survived without camouflage is something I often wonder. It took her 3 months to flop in front of me, about 6 months to do what she would consider “snuggling” (she’s no lap bunny), and about a year to fully warm up to me, even laying in bed with me for pets for nearly an hour on weekend mornings. She is my darling. She has been free range since about day 3 of living with me when I just gave up because I didn’t have the heart for the cage. 

        While in her 2-story castle, she sometimes felt loneliness creep up …

        I work full-time and live alone. So if I have a long day at work, sometimes 10 hours, she’s alone for quite a long time. On top of that I occasionally will have after-work things as well. Now that she had gotten comfortable with me, I sometimes wondered if she was lonely when I was gone. She seemed extra desperate for snuggles. But I kept telling myself that she probably didn’t want one anyway — and ya know, money.

        Meanwhile, in a mystical land near by …

        My community was hosting a large adoption event with something like 50 local shelters attending. I went with a friend thinking to just get some free stress-reducing puppy hugs. As we were walking down an aisle of booths filled with puppies, a few cats, and just tons of people (not to mention live music and this was all outside), my eyes locked on this poor, tiny little lion-headed lop in a tall x-pen covered in a blanket. In the midst of chaos. (Delightful chaos for humans, not so much for bunnies). He was the cutest little thing and my heart just ached for him. I asked to see him and he relaxed right into me. He knew what he was doing for sure the little heartbreaker. I put him back in his pen and went over to talk to the adoption lady a little more. And that little rascal came over to where I was standing next to the x-pen and put his little paws up next to me. Bunny 1 million, Human 0.

        Across hills, valleys, mountains and meadows …

        The more I discovered about Indie (then named Victory) the more I knew I had to get him away from his situation. He had cuts from fighting with his former brother that they didn’t even know about! So in under an hour I was on my way home with a brain new bunny! (hence the compulsion mentioned above).

        The Prince and Princess meet …

        In hindsight, I don’t think I handle our first few days as a family too great. So, let me caveat that first. It had been too hard for me to bring Brenna out to meet Indie (she would have full on had a stroke in that environment) and he was so gentle in comparison to her AND I just trusted my gut that he would be a good fit. I brought Indie home (my friend still with me for help) and took him and Brenna up to meet in the bathtub. Brenna hates hard floors so she’s never even stepped foot in it. I thought it went amazingly well! Indie even flopped, more than once. Nothing much at all happened, they were both mostly concerned with getting OUT of the tub, which it turned out they both could.

        Day one, exploring the kingdom …

        I didn’t have much of anything blocked off. I wanted to let Indie explore, which he did and all was mostly well. Brenna didn’t love his but she didn’t freak out either. I kept him in the bathroom that night, but didn’t want to keep doing that. So the next day I set up a separation between them using wire cube shelves, giving him the kitchen, downstairs bath and part of the living area. She had the rest of the house. I put her in with him for a good 3 hours or more, even laying down to try and sleep next to them. They had had, litter and water to share and they did amazingly well. They explored, some humping, nothing very aggressive. They ate, drank and cleaned themselves. He even groomed her! I was ecstatic. Thrilled. The romance was budding! Cue the choir! The only trouble was that Brenna wanted OUT and seemed mostly focused on that.

        Darkness falls upon the land …

        I came home the next day to have a complete an utter heart attack. I literally think I blacked out a little bit. I walked in and saw the barricade had been broken down (Brenna’s fault I am positive) and there were big tufts of fur absolutely everywhere! I can’t recollect where I found each of them, but I did, and they seemed fine. Thank god! We had to head straight to the vet after that, as we were going to be just on time after my stroke. I put them in a carrier together as recommended for bonding. We went to the vet. They snuggled in the carrier. Both were terrified at the vet. And while there I had my second stroke, after I found bad scab marks by Brenna’s ears that I hadn’t noticed before. She ended up having one on both sides. My vet couldn’t say for certain that Indie didn’t do it, but she said it’s a rare spot to get hit in a fight and on top of that she has a history of spring allergies/itchies. So I’m telling myself at least, she did it to herself and my vet seems to back that. He was grooming her and I think that made it worse. Indie also had a long bite/scratch from his experiences in a past life, so both bunnies are getting ointment twice a day. And Brenna is getting some allergy medicine as well. Can you say stress-central?

         

         

        Just when things couldn’t get any worse …

        I set up a much more secure barrier between the two, giving her the downstairs closet (where her litter is) and all of upstairs and him all of downstairs. I also set up a Bunny cam using manything.com to put my mind at ease during the day. 4 hours are free and I purchased 7 days for 3.99. 100% worth it. That night I decided to try a trick I’d seen and took them on a long car ride to drop off something at a friends a few towns over. They were besties in the carrier. Indie fell asleep! Brenna was still pretty stressed, but she buried herself into him a lot. I thought that they were doing so amazingly well, so I set down the carrier and let them out at the same time to get ready for dinner and such. [Cue dark music.] I was completely unprepared for Brenna to attack, it came out of seemingly nowhere! She suddenly just flipped out. I had nothing with me to separate them so threw myself into the fray, emerging with one pretty bad cut and a few smaller ones. And my third stroke of the bonding saga. They were immediately separated, of course. But I did put them back together in the neutral bathroom for about 30 minutes to try and end on a good note. I don’t know if we managed that or not…

        Wandering, alone and afraid …

        I may or may not have had a minor complete breakdown at this point. I was sleep deprived from staying up late with them and waking up early, I was desperate to not have to contain my free-range rabbit, and I was panicking that I had made the absolute worst mistake bringing Indie home and that I’d ruined my baby girl’s life. So…that was a low. I mean picture sitting on the bathroom floor staring at them both hopelessly in agony low point. I reached out to the people of the Bunny Approved Facebook group and got some good support that helped pull me out of it.

        A new day, the sun shines, and the kingdom rallies …

        So here we are, the kingdom saw some hard times to say the least. But I scoured the many advice articles out there and decided to put up an additional segment of the partition, creating a small enclosure about 5 x 2.25 feet next to the barricade and thus Brenna’s litter. I put Indie in there (much to his frustration after being able to run free all day) and kept Brenna on the other side of the barricade for the night. This morning I swapped their litters and water bowls but otherwise left them the same. The bunny cam I set up showed that they di quite well, even chilling by each other here and there (though not right by — a good 2-3 feet at all times). Brenna even flopped in the morning while I was getting ready! Which is unheard of she’s usually too worried about my flitting around. I came home from work and moved Brenna into the small enclosure much to both of our disdain, and let him on the other side of the barricade. 

        Separated, but willing to talk …

        They had dinner next to each other but still separated and I swapped their bowls from breakfast. We are going to skip and face-to-face dates for at least tonight and I’m watching closely to see how they interact. Brenna sat in the litter box pouting for a good hour to begin with. But she eventually ate. She even played with cardboard for about 2 seconds before she remembered she was suppose to be making me feel guilty. I have old carpet remnants, towels and blankets down. Both bunnies are taking their ointment application decently well and I’ve even gotten Brenna to take her Benadryl consistently. She’s been pulling at the cage some yet (she really hates being ocntainted), and they had a few strange nose to nose interactions between the gates but nothing serious that I could tell. Overnight, I will likely let her out into the living room. This is what I did with Indie last night.

        I’ll keep updating (for stress relief if nothing else) but would love advice, opinions, encouragement, stories, “make your own adventure” for what happens next, good energy and whatever else! 


      • Little Lion Head
        Participant
        1706 posts Send Private Message

          Welcome to you, Brenna, and Indie!!

          I think things are honestly going really well for you based on just my own experience!

          I have to say I think both of your buns are just gorgeous but that little Indie! Gah! So cute! He was just WAITING for the right human to lay eyes on her so he could sucker them into his life!

          I love your story an the pictures that went with it!! Good luck with your pair!


        • Ktiernan
          Participant
          25 posts Send Private Message

            Thanks for the encouragement Little Lion Head! And yes I think he knew exactly what he was doing haha. 

            WellI swapped everything this morning before work again. Then today and early evening there was a lot of poking noses through bars at each other. So I decided to go ahead and try another quick 20 minute date. It was … weird. He grooms the absolute crap out of her for like ever and she just is like “nope not digging this.” 

            They started to explore the area itself a little which I took as a good sign. Indie did try to display a little dominance but it seems to me that it’s more of a “groom me back damn you!” type of dominance. Very easily stops with a loudish noise sometimes even a stern word (that is when I decide he’s done enough dominance behavior — I let them go for a bit). Then towards the end he started thumping a bunch which he’s done in earlier dates. It seems to be when he starts getting really frustrated with her coldness toward him. This time though, she started thumping back. It was like one right after the other. Freaking weird. 

            So I started to get nervous about that and the thumps made me jump every time so I decided to give them both some pets and treats and end the date. Now they are each stealing each others salad through the bars of the barricade. I don’t know if that’s a good sign or what?! These bunnies sometimes they just baffle me. 


          • Little Lion Head
            Participant
            1706 posts Send Private Message

              What does Brenna do while Indie is grooming her?


            • Ktiernan
              Participant
              25 posts Send Private Message

                Some of the time she just kinda stares ahead. Sometimes she closes her eyes. Sometimes she rounds herself like into him for better licking access. It’s very difficult to tell what she thinks. :S


              • Little Lion Head
                Participant
                1706 posts Send Private Message

                  I would say if she is not trying to get away that is a good sign! Shamrock loves to groom Pumpkin but I don’t think she will ever return the favor!


                • Ktiernan
                  Participant
                  25 posts Send Private Message

                    Whelp let’s hope so!

                    The great equalizer enters the kingdom …

                    Despite how hard it is for me to put either in a confined space, I decided it would be best if we evened the playing field 100%, space included. So my back is broken now from all the moving, but they now have the exact same space, the exact same litter, the exact same water bowl and the exact same toy (half of the same egg carton). I also put a sheet of old vinyl flooring down and carpet remnants on top of it. 

                    So far, Brenna is exceptionally calm compared to when I usually try to keep her contained. Not in a pouting way or a “oh my god she’s sick way” either. So intriguing…


                  • Ktiernan
                    Participant
                    25 posts Send Private Message

                      We are on day 6!

                      So far I’m still pretty…not patient haha. But I am dedicated so that helps balance it out. I slept on the couch last night to make sure the bunnies did okay on their new equal space. They did quite well! Just a few moments when I had to get up and chill them out…well not them mostly Brenna.

                      I tried putting them in the same side of the new set up but that didn’t go so well. Too much room for circling and such. So I separated them for a bit then we went in the bathroom together which went much better. Indie flopped a lot and Brenna even explored a bit rather than just pouting in the corner. They are both getting equal run time right now to blow off some steam then back to the zone of equality.

                      My parents are coming to help me seal my deck today and bringing their maltipoo. Brenna is very familiar with her and does fine. And Indie did great with the dogs when I adopted him. I’m hoping it might even help them in their bonding even though Bailey (mom’s dog) isn’t at all scary. Hell she’s even been submissive to Brenna before haha.


                    • Ktiernan
                      Participant
                      25 posts Send Private Message

                        I brought Indie home a week ago today! We are working on lots of bonding today. After a long night separated and morning breakfast on either side of the barricade, we tried an hour in the bathroom together. I put up a babygate so I could see them but not be involved. They were doing great so I added a litter to share with hay and they continued to do nicely! Indie mounted Brenna just a few of times. And stopped when I scolded him. I only had to gently push him off once.

                        After another hour or so of that, I decided to move them back to their pen area and remove the divider. They both have a litter and water bowl. Fingers crossed!!!


                      • Ktiernan
                        Participant
                        25 posts Send Private Message

                          I’m so very exhausted. I’ve never had any kids but I imagine this is somewhat how a new mother feels. I don’t sleep a ton (compared to how much I typically do) and when I do I don’t get a good sleep in because I’m worrying. Blah.

                          Yesterday the buns spent nearly 12 hours together!!! I was going to have them sleep together too, but turns out I need sleep. They get to sleep for 5 hours during the day, but mom has to head to work. :S

                           

                          Anyhooo. The half-marathon — if you will — went great! By hour 11 I even caught Brenna grooming Indie! I about had a complete freakout I was so happy to see that. Of course like 2 seconds later they had a dominance spat. BUT it wasn’t aggressive like their earlier scuffles. It was very “let me remind you who is dominant” and ended as soon as I raised my voice a little and walked over there (which would have never happened in their earlier tiffs). 

                          They even enjoyed a nice big salad together!

                          People in the bunny approved group on facebook recommend I keep working with them this week and try one more big marathon this weekend. I know it’s good advice but damn do I just want to be done. Partly because of exhaustion, but also because it’s very difficult to let them have run time with this set up

                          . I’ve been giving them about 20 minutes a day which I know is not enough. They are fine when they are out, the trouble is that Brenna, who has been shockingly okay with being in her confined space, immediately wants out once he is. And I’m worried she’ll hurt herself pulling at the bars and stuff. Because of that I’ve kept their runs short, to 10-minute intervals mostly. Any thoughts on this would be much appreciated!! She’s okay if I come over to her while he’s out — but I don’t know if that’s okay either. I don’t want her to be possessive over me when he’s around — or not any more so than she already is.


                          Anyhoo we are doing great overall! Brenna even flopped several times yesterday! That’s after I finally got her to leave her litter box. She was so tired but wanted to be in it so she passed out IN IT haha. Regardless, lot’s of little victories to be sure. 


                        • RabbitPam
                          Moderator
                          11002 posts Send Private Message

                            To resize photos easily and quickly, here’s my solution:

                            Someone here told me about VarieDrop, and it’s great. I preset it for just under the max allowed for uploads, and one preset for siggies, then drag and drop any pix into it and it’s copied in a second. Free – try it!

                            http://www.snapfiles.com/get/variedrop.html

                            For the pix already loaded here, go into Edit on each reply, inside the box, click on the pix so the white tiny boxes show at the corners. Grab one corner and drag in diagonally toward the middle of the pix, which will shrink the image, then let go when it’s small enough. Then submit it again.


                          • RabbitPam
                            Moderator
                            11002 posts Send Private Message

                              I’m doing these for you. I just pulled in the corners with a diagonal arrow. Also, put a space between uploads, then hit the return button so they stack, and are not side by side. Even sizes that fit are too long for a post when next to each other.

                              They’re lovely pix, and I know they’re much smaller than you had them, but once a photo is so big it goes outside the Reply white box, it is too big for a post. Usually a pix is too many MB’s to upload, but sometimes they are not dense, just large in scale. So don’t upload directly from a phone or computer without checking the size first. Once in the box, pull corners to within the white area, and stack them.


                            • Ktiernan
                              Participant
                              25 posts Send Private Message

                                Posted By RabbitPam on 5/04/2015 8:36 AM

                                I’m doing these for you. I just pulled in the corners with a diagonal arrow. Also, put a space between uploads, then hit the return button so they stack, and are not side by side. Even sizes that fit are too long for a post when next to each other.

                                They’re lovely pix, and I know they’re much smaller than you had them, but once a photo is so big it goes outside the Reply white box, it is too big for a post. Usually a pix is too many MB’s to upload, but sometimes they are not dense, just large in scale. So don’t upload directly from a phone or computer without checking the size first. Once in the box, pull corners to within the white area, and stack them.

                                Thank you! I was having quite a bit of trouble getting them resized. I even tried hard coding them.  


                              • Ktiernan
                                Participant
                                25 posts Send Private Message

                                  Phew I am one exhausted bunny mama — but worth it!

                                  The bunnies were doing great! They were together in their enclosure without the divider whenever I was home and were super chill with one another. When I did let them out for runs, half the time they went back into see the other one or get groomed through the bars. 

                                  Thursday and Friday

                                  So I took Friday off from work to really buckle down on this bonding. Thursday night I slept on the couch and let them sleep together in the enclosure. Friday, I started with 2 hours together in the neutral bathroom. They did good, so I moved back the couch so it was up against the wall (more space, unfamiliar space for Brenna AND easier for me to see them at any angle) then I opened up the enclosure and let them have free run of downstairs all day. They did wonderfully! I was so happy considering Brenna’s former extreme territorial-ness. 

                                  They now had one shared litter box, food and water bowls as well.

                                  That night I let them stay out and slept on the couch for 6 hours. they were doing great so I went upstairs to sleep in my bed, waking up about 3 hours in to check they were still okay and otherwise sleeping another 6-7 hours. 

                                  Saturday

                                  All still well other than an extremely sleep deprived me (I’m used to like 9 hours a night). A friend came over, partly to test how they were and partly to keep me company during my shut-in-with-the-bunnies weekend. We simply watched movies. She too has a bunny, so she was wonderful with them. 

                                  Interesting things started happening this day, Brenna was more relaxed than I’ve ever seen her ESPECIALLY with another person there. She even flopped, several times, while my friend was on the floor. That’s just unheard of from her. It seemed she was gaining confidence!! That night they slept together downstairs, and I slept upstairs, getting up at 2 and 6 to check on them.

                                  Sunday

                                  The last day of our weekend extravaganza! This was it. This was the cincher day. I was too tired to be nervous though haha. On this day, I took down the rest of their barricade (letting them now go upstairs), and moved their litter back into the closet where it typically is. I had deep cleaned the closet and moved it all around so that Brenna wouldn’t recognize it BEFORE setting up their enclosure in front of it while closed back earlier in the bonding. 

                                  Again, a great day! They even chilled together under the chair that used to be “Brenna’s Spot” — she lunged at him on day 3 of bonding when he tried to go under it and I was a silly overconfidence bunny mom. 

                                  WE had some strange tension at night and I couldn’t quite figure out why but all of the sudden Indie was quite spooked and didn’t like any sudden movements (which means any movement from Brenna ever). I got down with them and cooed him and gave them both treats and snuggles, staying up an extra 2 hours to make sure all was well. He loosened up by the end of that, even willing to learn how to get up on the bed using a stool (though he keeps trying to hop up right on it like Brenna, his tiny legs though don’t make that easy like it is for her).

                                  Today

                                  So here we are! I have to go back to work today of course, but I am setting up the bunny cam to try and watch what I can (It doesn’t exactly move or show everything). I’m leaving them out because my gut feeling is that’s okay. I know a lot of bunny people would say it might be too early still, but I have to read them for myself.

                                  We did have a small humping issue this morning, Indie seemed quite horny for some reason (back, not face humping). Brenna would just run away for the most part but he was a little chasy so after the third time or so I kept him in my room with me for about 5 minutes while I got dressed to let him calm down. Once I was ready to go out, Ii checked that he wasn’t still *ahem* amorous and let them back out together. He was still humpy though, so I came downstairs and fed them and it stopped right away. Too excited about breakfast perhaps? I did some forum searching and sounds like this is quite common and since there was no fur pulling or scuffling and they were back to kisses right away, so I’m going to go ahead with my plan to leave them out today.

                                  Today I’ll be home slightly early because we are going back to the vet to check Brenna’s ears. They look 1000x better, thankfully! 

                                  So at this point, though it feels hard to ever say confidently, I’m saying I’ve bonded my bunnies! in 2 weeks and extreme amounts of hours.

                                  The Top Things I Learned:

                                  1. If you are stressed, take a break. If they are stressed, take a break. The first part of this is especially important. Being calm (for both me and them) proved to be exceptionally important for our bonding. Stress bonding attempts only seemed to make their bonding worse. And when I was at my wits end, I made the right decision to take a break for the night rather than forcing it.

                                  2. Vinegar and baking soda. Clean clean clean clean. I deep cleaned everything with water and vinegar and baking soda. I also added a few drops of lemon and/or marjoram essential oil to my vacuum filter to try and cover up any lingering scent Brenna had left to really neutralize the territory the best I could. 

                                  3. Equal space was the turning point. I thought because Brenna was free range I could make our bonding work but still let her have a good run space. This wasn’t so. They needed to be on equal levels to effectively establish who was Top Bunny. It is Brenna, but they were able to come to that on their own, equal terms.

                                  4. Poops don’t lie. Funny, I agree, but true. I watched closely for how much they were “marking” their space. It got less and less each day and I haven’t had any trouble while they’ve been out and about. Some poops in front of their litter area is all. If they had continued to mark all over the place I would have taken a step back, to me that means they aren’t quite ready to share.

                                  5. Only involve yourself when necessary. It was hard for me to stay out of their bonding, but it proved quite important. That didn’t mean I wouldn’t sit on the floor while they ran around and stuff, but I wouldn’t try to intervene or give them snuggles more than a handful of times a day. Learning to read their behavior was extra important for this. I primarily got down and gave treats and pets when I felt they were getting somewhat unsure of their situation to calm them down and reinforce that this was all good.

                                  So, I guess we have yet to see where this goes, but I’m feeling pretty good about it all! Fingers crossed for a successful first day!! 


                                • Little Lion Head
                                  Participant
                                  1706 posts Send Private Message

                                    I think it sounds like it was the perfect time to leave them alone while you were at work! Your experience sounds a lot like mine was! I was so nervous that first day at work that I left 3 hours early!!!

                                    If it makes you feel better Pumpkin always humps Rocky when food is on the way or she thinks it should be on the way.

                                    Also, we are well over a month bonded and they are still pooping everywhere….

                                    Indie and Brenna are so cute together!

                                Viewing 14 reply threads
                                • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

                                Forum BONDING The Bonding Adventures of Brenna and Indie (advice welcome!)