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Forum BONDING accidental bonding (Updated)

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    • manic_muncher
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        Hi guys, long time no see!  So I am running around like a chicken with my head cut off, Clyde had been out for his run and was about to be put away.  He was happily munching his bowl of veggies, I hurriedly placed Bumpy’s bowl of veggies inside his pen, closed it up, went to get the hay tote.  Placed hay in Clyde’s box, Bumpy’s box and Bonnie’s box, took the tote back to the kitchen.  Meanwhile, Bonnie is demanding to be let out, pulling and pushing her xpen.  SO I opened it up and went back to the kitchen to do dishes.  Everything is going well.  Then I hear all this scuffling sounds.  Hubby asks, what’s happening?  I’m asking him at the same time, who is doing all that running around?  Then he says to me… “Oh, you forgot to close Clyde’s cage.”

        …. !

        So of course I go back in there to see what’s happening, and it isn’t bad, Bonnie is sitting with her face mashed to the floor, trying to get Clyde to groom her.  He’s humping her face.  He moves to her back, she circles around, wants no part of that!  They run around, not chasing, just kinda following.  She goes in his cage and investigates, eats his hay, and veggie remnants, chins everything hanging.  He goes in her litterbox and eats her hay.  She goes in her pen to get water, goes back out.  He’s followed her in her pen, she’s left him inside.  There’s been no fighting.

        I don’t think there is a “top” yet, since she still is trying to get him to groom her?  But she doesn’t stop him or even move when he humps her face.  Should I stop him?  It seems like he stops rather quickly on his own.  They’ve been (all 3 really) watching each other for 8 months now getting separate floor times, sticking each other noses in between the bars, grooming each other thru the bars too.  We’ve had a total of TWO bonding sessions of 10 minutes each with all 3 rabbits.

        Right now as I speak, both Bonnie and Clyde are in Clyde’s cage (TOO SMALL 6sq ft with a shelf) sitting in his litterbox eating hay together.  Should I just vinegar wash her pen area and re-arrange it and move him in?  Supervising the first 24 hrs of course, but I swear, I hate to put them in separate spaces now if they are on their way to truly being bonded.


      • LongEaredLions
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          Good to see you back Manic!
          Generally, humping of the face is to be discouraged because it can result in bitten twinkly bits, if you know what I mean. Otherwise, it sounds like they are doing really well together so far. I would put them together in a cleaned neutral area (do you have an xpen or something that would be easy to reach into should there be any fighting?) and watch them for a few days. If they can stay together no (or very few minor) problems for several days, I would say you got lucky with them being so compatible. Good luck!


        • manic_muncher
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            You know, my extended house guest  …  may be moving out on Wednesday  that area is completely neutral to them.  Do you think I should just let them have their floortime together?  Since this was an accident, and it has still gone well, I just left them out together.  They are doing their own thing now.  But if I put them in their own spaces tonight, when it comes to floortime tomorrow, do I repeat the accident?  And obviously, this is all community space I am dealing with here.

            Thanks for your input!!


          • LongEaredLions
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              With bonding I believe it is always good to keep things going when they are going well, so if you are comfortable with them together, I think I might leave them that way through the night. If you don’t think they are quite ready for that I would think letting them out again tomorrow would be fine too, you just need to be very careful they don’t redefine whose space is whose and become territorial.


            • manic_muncher
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                Ahh yes, that is what I was afraid of, since this was an accident, I got really lucky, I probably would have freaked out and caused all kinds of commotion between them had I noticed what I had done. And I AM afraid that they might get weird tomorrow if I lock them up separate tonight. Hmm. I’ll have to think about this. I won’t want to leave them unsupervised unless I am sure, and I DO need to hit the store tomorrow. LOL


              • manic_muncher
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                  Well, we ended up deciding to put them away like normal, and end it on a good note.  We don’t know what kind of reaction the return of his sister will have on them, even though it will only be for one night (currently, she’s out of town for almost 2 weeks) but then she’s going to be moving the next day too, so there will be a lot of shuffling and moving around.  Anyway, I’m happy they got along as well as they did and plan to put them together asap!  Two bun setups will be MUCH better to take care of than three!


                • LBJ10
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                    So is there a reason you didn’t try bonding them before?


                  • JackRabbit
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                      I love Bonnie’s big ole butt in that pic! How much do Bonnie and Clyde weigh now? How did Bumpy act when Bonnie and Clyde were out together?


                    • MissGabbster
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                        They decided to take things into their own paws. haha They look like they’re getting along quite well in that picture.


                      • manic_muncher
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                          I think I’m losing my mind. Was running late today, and everyone was standing at their doorways looking at me accusingly. Bumpy’s door was already open. Dropped pellets in his and Clyde’s bowl. Opened Bonnie’s up to get her bowl and let her out, thinking about letting Clyde out again and hoping it all goes well. Didn’t shut Bumpy’s door. So then before I forget, let me close Bumpy’s door… oh… Bonnie’s in there with him. He’s eating, completely ignoring her. She’s just looking around, sitting right beside him!

                          I’ve tried bonding them only a handful of times. The main reason for so few attempts, aside from laziness on our part, is the lack of space. Secondary reasoning is, it scares me to death. I am a very good worrier. And I think my hovering impeded their bonding sessions with my constant interference. But yea, the lack of space is very limiting. Even with creating neutral space with an xpen, not much room to do that here.

                          Tonight Clyde has taken to marking Bonnie’s pen with his poos. He ran right out of his cage and into hers, they circled a few times, I believe it was because Clyde was trying to mount her and she wasn’t happy about him barging into her space. That stopped fast though and they went on about their business.

                          I’m terrified of tempting fate and trying to bond all three, but I have known for some time that they all DO get along to some degree. ALL rabbits stick each other’s noses in each other’s cages for grooms, and sometimes they actually get what they want. But seeing Bonnie in Bumpy’s cage just a bit ago made me think about whether Bumpy will be lonely once Bonnie and Clyde are sharing a pen permanently.


                        • manic_muncher
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                            Oh JR, forgot to answer your questions! Bumpy ran alongside his pen sometimes when they would run by, but otherwise he just sat there. Like usual.

                            I really need to weigh everyone again. It’s been several months since I’ve weighed Bonnie and she was 15# then. Clyde… I just don’t know. I think he’s fat, I estimate him to be 6-7#. He eats constantly. I cut back on his pellets, but he will eat every strand of hay in his litterbox and look for more. He’s a pig. And it’s really hard to tell if he’s fat because whenever you touch him he stiffens up. His entire body hardens and he flattens down and twitches, its very sad to see. I think he was mishandled quite a bit where he came from. He loves pets, but… I dunno, it’s like he wants them, he’ll sit still for them, but is terrified of you touching a great portion of his body.


                          • JackRabbit
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                              15 pound Bonnie! The thought of that just gives me big adorable Bonnie bunny cute overload!

                              Marlee was like Clyde with the touch fear too. I know the breeder carried them by the scruff and both M&Ms still cringe when touched there sometimes. I’ve had them for a year and a half and Marlee’s finally calming down about touches. She’ll come over to me and sit next to me when she’s out of her room (she’s always climbed on my back if I’m laying face down — I think she knows I can’t really touch her that way!). In her room, I can now touch any part of her! During salad time, I can even lift her butt fur up and comb under there for mat prevention. Still no picky uppy though! Clyde will come around, it just might take a long time.


                            • manic_muncher
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                                He’ll let me pick him up. It’s just sad to see his reaction. I don’t do it often of course, because of how he reacts. He literally freezes. And if you take a finger and touch the side of his face, neck, ear, shoulder, he will cringe cringe cringe cringe, until he is nearly rolling onto the side of his face, from trying to smash himself flat into the ground. He adores head rubs though. Closes his eyes and just loves them up!

                                Speaking of butt fur… Bumpy has a fringe across his, right above his tail. I seriously need to do something with it, but he is a terrible grouch!


                              • Deleted User
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                                  MANIC!!!!!! Hello…..

                                  Lol!


                                • Deleted User
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                                    Miss you!

                                    You already know my response…. go for it!
                                    What do Bandit and Outlaw think of all this??? Lol!

                                    Trust me….


                                  • manic_muncher
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                                      Poor Bandit is a hot mess. The sooner the sister-in-law moves out the better. His anxiety level has been through the roof, and we were just thinking he was getting worse overall. She left to go out of town for 2 weeks and he’s calmed down so much. He’s always been slightly high strung, and Bonnie just pushed him even higher, but when the house guest arrived, it was too much for him to take. I’ll be so glad when she’s gone, hopefully everything goes as planned at that will be Wednesday!

                                      Outlaw is afraid of the two rabbits being out at the same time, he’s not sure why I am allowing it and is almost positive that something bad is going to come from it! He just sits and watches them from afar.


                                    • manic_muncher
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                                        ok so… we did nothing.  I recreated the accident a few more times, letting him out (see the piddle spot and poos around above with how Clyde has been actively staking out the new grounds).  Tonight is first time we put them away together.  I must tell you, this actual test was not due to start until tomorrow afternoon, when we are going to expand her pen out to accommodate them both and were planning on re-arranging some things inside, so it’s new to them both.  But…. since Clyde has been hanging out in there anyway, and she hasn’t been caring, we threw caution to the wind and when we gave them their cue that it is time for bed (food bowl!) Bonnie ran to her pen, Clyde ran to his cage.  The hubby put food in Bonnie’s bowl and walked over to her pen, Clyde followed the bowl and went inside with Bonnie.  They ate together and then Bonnie flopped out.  Soon after, these pics were taken.  We’re watching them the rest of the night, and if all goes well I’m calling them bonded.

                                        I don’t know if it’s because they’ve all been able to watch each other for the last 8 months, pretty much at all times.  Or maybe because they all use the same space for floor time.  I DO know that this is NOT a typical bonding experience, and for that I am so glad.

                                        At this time I am NOT considering trying to create a trio because Bumpy and Clyde have fought a few times through their bars and earlier today was the latest one.  Whether that changes or not is up to them, perhaps Clyde moving from beside Bumpy will ease tensions a bit and we can consider that in the future.  Right now he seems pretty happy with having the dogs as his friends.


                                      • LongEaredLions
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                                          Sounds great Manic! What a great bonding experience! Congrats!


                                        • JackRabbit
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                                            OMG Manic! How lucky can you be! Bonnie looks a little indifferent, but Clyde is in LOVE!!!


                                          • manic_muncher
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                                              Thanks guys. I feel so bad now for keeping them separated for so long! You are right JR, Bonnie really doesn’t seem to care either way, but he is absolutely obsessed with her! I will say they both get a LOT more exercise now during floor time. Lots less flopping and digging at one thing, lots more hopping up and down the hall together. Bonnie running and doing her thing with Clyde following. And for some reason they like to hang out in the bathroom in the dark together for several minutes at a time. No clue what they are actually up to then….


                                            • LBJ10
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                                                They look great together! Such a cute couple! You know, my boys were a pretty easy bond. It isn’t the norm, but it certainly isn’t unheard of. I was a little worried too, but they got along pretty well from the beginning (minus Leopold’s humping). I just love those easy bonds, makes life so much easier.


                                              • manic_muncher
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                                                  Speaking of humping, LBJ… I -think- he’s really slacked off on it now. Maybe he figured out he doesn’t have to rush to do it anymore since he is with her all the time now. I dunno. He did it twice last night while they were out running around, but haven’t seen him do it since. I also have to mention he was quite a porker prior to the accidental cage release, and because of all the amorous following of Bonnie, has trimmed down a bit.


                                                • manic_muncher
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                                                    The happy couple in their expanded digs!  Last night Bumpy was causing issues between Bonnie and Clyde.  Clyde does not want him near their enclosure.  He and Bonnie ended up circling and chasing each other because Bonnie was being friendly towards Bumpy though the bars.  Definitely could have bonded her to Bumpy, but I really don’t see Bumpy and Clyde ever being able to be put together.

                                                    We just expanded this afternoon, so we will see if Clyde reacts as violently as yesterday, when it’s time for him to come out.  Bumpy has recently been taken off free-roam because of the poop wars, and he isn’t happy about that at all.  Thursday we are re-arranging Bumpy’s pen, by fully removing the section that Clyde used to inhabit and moving him further away from their new perimeter so they can’t antagonize each other all the time.  Perhaps the separation will make the animosity not so bad.  We’ll see.

                                                    Otherwise, everything else is gravy!


                                                  • LBJ10
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                                                      Leopold got the humping out pretty much all in one go. He was at it practically nonstop for the first day or so, after that everything was good. LOL

                                                      Aww, I just love how they loaf next to each other. So cute! You know, you could try a trio if you want to. But don’t expect things to be as easy as this was. =p Sounds like Bonnie and Clyde are good together though, so maybe it should stay that way.


                                                    • JackRabbit
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                                                        Manic — I see that they have Bonnie’s potty-on-wheels. Does she still ride in it? Don’t think I’ll ever forget your description — that was too funny!


                                                      • manic_muncher
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                                                          LBJ, yea Clyde seems to have stopped now, I think!

                                                          LOL JR! VERY rarely now. She DID go back and then forth on it after we set everything up, poor Clyde wasn’t sure what to make of it! But that was the first time I have seen her do it in a long time. She’s so big now, I think it’s more of an effort not to over-jump than it used to be.

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                                                      Forum BONDING accidental bonding (Updated)