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Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Bunny not eating and acting listless

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    • kbun
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        My bunny was acting normal this morning at around 9:30 am. He ate the pieces of veggie we gave him, had eaten his hay from the night before, and had pooped and drank water. I refilled his hay and water.

        We came back at 7 pm and he has been acting strangely. He ate one piece of parsley, and went to his litter box and sat there for a while, and pooped. 

        After that, he has not eaten any of the vegetables, pellets or even a piece of carrot that we offered him. I adopted him two months ago and this is the first time he hasn’t eaten. He is acting a little scared – shrinks back when we try to pet him. He is lying down as if trying to relax, so I’m not sure how to tell if he’s in pain.

        I read some messages on this forum that said something might have scared him while we were away (neighbours?) but don’t know why he would not be eating. Realize it may be a GI issue.

        I cleaned his litter so I can observe when I wake up at 7 am whether he has pooped or eaten for 12 hours. If not, I will call the vet and try to take him in.

        My question – should we take him in sooner (tonight, after-hours emergency), or should I wait until 7 am in the morning to see if he has not pooped or eaten in 12 hours? Any other things I can do?  This is unfortunately also bad timing as my boyfriend and I are both traveling starting in 2 days, and I would hate to leave him if he is sick. My neighbour was going to come check in on him and feed him. I am thinking if I can leave him at the vet to board if he does have an issue. 


      • DethronedbyQueenB
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          This is way out of my league but if it were me and he wasn’t DRINKING, I would not wait.

          Let us know how it goes and hopefully someone with more experience will chime in quickly.


        • BunnyHugger
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            Kbun, I’ve been that worried about a pet, and could not sleep. So it’s up to you whether the emergency room bill is worth a night’s sleep.

            The one thing you can try at home, is giving your bun a light tummy massage. If he’s lying down and repositioning himself as if trying to get comfy or pressing his tummy on the floor, it may be gas. Massage him on the sides and bottom of his tummy, and see what happens. If he struggles, stop.

            Did he eat anything unusual or possibly gas producing, like cabbage or broccoli?

            But definitely, if this continues, see the vet.


          • kbun
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              Thanks for the quick responses. I tried massaging his tummy (at least he is not shrinking away), and he let me do that but not sure it helped either.

              I’ll observe him for a few more waking hours, and make the call on emergency room or not. I’m leaning towards taking him in first thing in the morning ~6:30 am. Getting him into his carrier in this state will be awful, too.

              I have not fed him broccoli or cabbage in the last week. He had parsley, red lettuce and cilantro. I did switch to using wood stove pellets a week ago so I’m a little concerned maybe he ingested some? But he had no issues until today.

              Sounds like some of his symptoms are similar to what is described under gas or GI issue on this page:

              https://www.petfinder.com/pet-care/rabbit-care/rabbit-sick-reach-vet/ 

              I’ll massage his tummy more and also gave him a hot water bottle. 


            • BunnyHugger
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                You know what, kbun, the fact that he is not shrinking away from a tummy rub but is doing so from other forms of contact, is likely his way of saying, “Yes, yes, the problem is in my gut.”

                Observing him closely and acting on what you see is a good idea. Vet bills eventually get paid down, but not acting in time lingers in our minds forever.


              • kbun
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                  He’s actually now allowing us to pet him (and rub his tummy), but behavior still the same.

                  I called a bunch of vets, including my vet (who we just saw 2 weeks ago), and the emergency places they recommended. Only one of them said they can see him but they don’t specialize in rabbits – they said the vet can still run diagnostics to figure it out. If it’s a GI statis issue they said we should take him in immediately.

                  I’m not sure if I’m better off with my regular vet at 7 am who has experience with bunnies, or try for this vet. Leaning towards the latter at this point.


                • BunnyHugger
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                    kbun, it sounds like you’re taking excellent care of your bunny and doing the right things. Great good wishes for this blowing over soon and easily.

                    My advice about tummy rubs comes less from GI stasis experience with bunnies, but decades with horses. Of all species, bunnies’ digestive process is closest to equine. I’ve worked with countless horses with gut impactions (called “colic”), and also with just bad gas. Tummy rubbing at the very least gives you an idea of where the pain is–though horses will actually nip at their sides to show you—and give some relief until vet care is available. Sometimes when it’s just gas, tummy rubbing relieves the problem entirely.

                    The difference is with rabbits, you can’t tell when they fart! Horses, well…

                    I think horse/pony and bunny owners are the only people in the world who crack open the champagne and tell everyone when their pets finally have a huge poop!


                  • Bam
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                      Do you have any simethicone? (Baby gas drops). That’s first aid for a bunny with tummy issues imo. That + a tummy rub will take care of lighter cases or stop an early case from becoming sth serious.

                      I don’t know what time you posted because of the time-difference. How is he doing now?

                      That broccoli and cabbage cause gas is nowadays considered a myth. It does in humans but not in rabbits. (That said I didn’t dare give my bubnny cabbage when he was experiencing stasis.)


                    • kbun
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                        Hi,
                        Thanks so much for the help. I did not have simethicone on hand (stupid), but we just made a trip to the pharmacy to get some. I gave him a few drops (around 1 ML, he wasn’t a big fan), and within a few minutes he started eating vegetables!

                        So relieved (but know we’re not out of the woods yet). Should I continue giving him simethicone and should I still take him to the vet if he behaves completely normally tomorrow?


                      • Roberta
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                          I would keep up the simethicone.


                        • kbun
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                            As an update, he is totally acting normal now ever since that first dose of simethicone. He’s eating and going to the bathroom properly. I did call the vet this morning to see if there’s anything else I can do/check up, and she said that they’re not sure simethicone actually works,and he probably got better on his own, but that if he’s acting normally now, we’re fine.

                            Wanted to give another shoutout to this forum — was super helpful (and pointed out the obvious to me) in my hour of need/distress. Time to stock up on other first aid items ASAP to prevent another last-minute run to the pharmacy.

                            Thank you!


                          • BunnyHugger
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                              That’s awesome, kbun! Good for you for calling the vet, anyway. I would be ultra cautious about administering medication without a vet’s advice, particularly based on anonymous Internet advice. As for simethicone, it may or may not have helped, as the vet said. That drug can cause a SEVERE allergic reaction, and I would not use it outside a vet’s office. If you’re trying a medication, your animal should first be determined to tolerate it, and/or be in a place where he can receive immediate emergency attention, should he have a reaction. Please, be prudent about accepting veterinary advice on the Internet.

                              If you’d like to learn more about hind gut fermentation, the foods that cause accelerated fermentation and therefore gas and even lethal bloat, I’d suggest reading the materials from UC Davis and the American Animal Hospital Assoc. UC Davis is the North American leader in animal nutrition, particularly equines and rabbits, i.e., animals with hind guts and their specific needs. They developed the protocol that has made many rescuers successful with badly starved animals. Again, because they’re the experts in animal digestive tracts.

                              Absolutely do not feed cabbage, as it is a very rapid gut fermenter—that’s why sauerkraut is so easy to make. Broccoli is slower, but still questionable.


                            • JackRabbit
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                                BunnyHugger — do you have any specific links to foods that are likely to cause gas in rabbits?


                              • JackRabbit
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                                  kbun — I can’t say one way or another if simethicone truly works, but I gave some to Moshi once and he had the same turnaround. I don’t see how it could work that fast, but it sure seemed to.


                                • DethronedbyQueenB
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                                    I feed mine cabbage with no issues and it’s generally on the safe foods lists I have seen, with the exception of a well written pellet pusher and outdated lists saying broccoli and cauliflower cause gas.
                                    Introduced slowly, of course.


                                  • BunnyHugger
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                                      Jackrabbit, Google: UC Davis Rabbit, House Rabbit Society food, Camilla Bergstrom medirabbit. Ms. Bergstrom is the HRS house rabbit feeding expert. UC stands for University of California.

                                      Also, House Rabbit Connection at hopline.org They also have an excellent publication online with several rabbit vet references.

                                      I would encourage reading anything you can find on rabbit hind gut fermentation. There are quite a few online studies, including a good one from the University of Guelph, which is one of Canada’s two veterinary colleges.

                                      Re: broccoli, it’s the flower heads (the part we relish) that seems to cause the problems. The leaves and stems may be ok.


                                    • DethronedbyQueenB
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                                        @BunnyHugger- Well, that answers my question. I’m always wondering how far DOWN we can go on the Broccoli stalk.


                                      • kbun
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                                          Definitely appreciate the insight – I had read up on House Rabbit Society on simethicone before giving to him, but did not realize that there were potential adverse effects (everything I read seemed to say it was harmless).

                                          I’ll stay away from cabbage and broccoli. I have given him bok choy and had heard that it may have gas, too. Anyone know about this? It doesn’t say anything about it causing gas on House Rabbit Society.


                                        • Avantika
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                                            Bok choy..well I once gave it to Moshu along with Kohlrabi..(for 3 days straight, though small quantities) and both being gassy veggies, the outcome was obvious..-__-

                                            I am sticking to a new rule of giving Moshu anything from the Brassica family not more than three times a week. And only a few (2-3) crowns/leaves per day. That wont do any harm. The gassy veggies are not desirable if served as the main dish. Restrict it as a side dish only. You know what I mean


                                          • Bam
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                                              Bunnyhugger, Medirabbit recommends simethicone even as a precaution. http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Bunny_201.pdf

                                              I hope you are only trying to be helpful, but please check your facts first. If you quote medirabbit as a good source for food advice, you shouldn’t say that simethicone is extremely dangerous, because the same source says simethicone is safe. 

                                              If you have any links to sources that say that simethicone is very dangerous, please post them here, because we are many who routinely give sinethicone on suspicion of gas in our rabbits. I even think such a caution should be pinned on the forums since simethicone is recommended both by medirabbit and House Rabbit Society and those are the sources rabbit-owners rely on the most. My vet recommended simethicone over the phone when my bunny Yohio recently had stomach issues, without any mention of the possibility for a severe reaction with possibly deadly outcome. So I think this side-effect is unknown to most.


                                            • BunnyHugger
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                                                Bam, what I said is to never administer medication to your pet without a vet’s advice. Period. You said you called your vet first, which is the right thing to do.

                                                As for potential adverse affects, it’s important to always read up on a medication before administering it to yourself or your pet. Doctors and vets rarely, if ever, cite these.


                                              • BunnyHugger
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                                                  There are two legal issues connected to giving out advice re: medication on forums, as well: in some places, giving such advice is illegal. It is practicing veterinary medicine without a license.

                                                  The second is, if you give your pet medicine on your own initiative, any consequences are on your head. If it costs thousands of dollars to save their life, it’s your bill. On the other hand, if a prescription causes the side effect, you can get part or all of your bills covered by the vet.

                                                  But mainly, I would never administer something I was told on the Internet because it’s not on my vet’s advice. I know of people who’ve killed their cats with aspirin and fostered major infections in their pets because they used Polysporin or some other OTC remedy on wounds that were a lot deeper than they looked. Most people don’t have the knowledge or capacity to medicate animals.


                                                • DethronedbyQueenB
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                                                    @ BunnyHugger I have seen you give a head knock a time or 2 when I personally had wanted to do it myself but restrained and secretly high fived ya for it.

                                                    However, I think sometimes you come across as wanting to be seen as a very enlightened, if not professional, bunny handler when in fact, you are extremely new to buns. You can be misleading in your representation in your wording- in this thread, in fact. When you say, “My advice about tummy rubs comes less from GI stasis experience with bunnies, but decades with horses.”, do you have any experience at all with GI Stasis in rabbits during the last couple of months you have owned one? According to your profile you haven’t even taken it to a vet yet.

                                                    I would like to get to know you better but even my first encounter with you was when you were attacking Catholics and I am a Catholic convert in RCIA.

                                                    I’m a bit upset that BB allows such religious attacks but I kept quiet about it.

                                                    I hope my words are taken in the context I mean them…firm as you dish out, but with the good intentions as well.

                                                    Peace to You.


                                                  • Roberta
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                                                      Hi DBQ, attacks of any kind are not permitted. Had I seen that one on catholics I would have reported it. For all of you if you find a post offensive, hurtful or disrespectful please hit the alert tab on the side at the top of the post. The mods will not throw people off or dress them down But they will make contact and gently remind them of the regard we need to have for each other and our experiences in order for BB to remain a safe, friendly and informative place to come for help.


                                                    • DethronedbyQueenB
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                                                        @ Roberta- Noted

                                                        @BunnyHugger- Super not fair to change posts now.


                                                      • BunnyHugger
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                                                          I did not “attack” Catholicism. I stated some history: the Catholic church began the practice of raising domestic rabbits for meat by declaring them “fish.” The first known meat rabbit raisers were monks. That is historical fact, like it or not. You are attacking ME for stating a historical fact.

                                                          Your statements about how I allegedly wish to be seen are personal attacks, as are is your statement about my lack of experience with rabbits.


                                                        • JackRabbit
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                                                            Lets please remember that the most important thing on this thread is that kbun’s bunny is doing better and kbun got some great advice from everyone. Its always helpful to know what each person would do in that situation so that we can each make our own decisions about what we feel is best for our own bunnies.


                                                          • DethronedbyQueenB
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                                                              I am familiar with the historical facts and yours are lacking additional info to put the entire subject into context.
                                                              This was not the attack I am referencing.
                                                              What I am referencing is your additional commentary on them 

                                                              “Ignoring Biblical food hygiene laws entirely, of course.”

                                                              A completely unnecessary comment. You are picking and choosing. Pointing in one direction to avoid the other being noticed.

                                                              Jews stole a necklace, of course 

                                                              It was a black man driving the stolen vehicle, of course.

                                                              Catholics Ignoring Biblical food hygiene laws entirely, of course. 

                                                              These are not offensive?
                                                              I do not wish to discuss this further with you. You bring up bricks when I am referring to the sticks in the conversation.
                                                              The original conversation is there.

                                                              Edited for verbatim quote.


                                                            • Roberta
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                                                                OK Guys… not the place. If you wish to start a separate thread please do so. Respect the original poster and do not hijack the thread. I request that a mod please delete the posts that do not relate to the thread.


                                                              • Bam
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                                                                  Bunny hugger, as much as I have read and searched, I can’t find the severe hypersensitivity reaction to simethicone you mention listed as a side-effect anywhere. So a link or a source would still be appreciated, seeing that simethicone in high probability is the most recommended and used home-emergency med for bunnies.It is possible for any one individual to have a hypersensitivity reaction to just about anything, although in the case of simethicone, it is not expected since it’s a virtually biologically inert drug, f ex it has no proteins or peptides that could cause an allergic reaction (after repeated exposure). This is why it is OTC for use in human babies. 

                                                                  As for medical advice on the BB forums it says very clearly on the top of the page:
                                                                  “The answers provided on this board are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. It is your responsibility to assess the information being given and seek professional advice/second opinion from your veterinarian and/or qualified behaviorist.”

                                                                  I did not appreciate to be more or less accused of putting an ill bunny at risk of a severe, deadly hypersensitivity reaction to a med that medirabbit and House Rabbit Society says can be given even as a precaution, by the completely ok advice I gave to a worried member. If you had produced any reliable source to your claims about simethicone, I would of course have been very, very grateful for the info. if it’s good info, it’s extremely valuable. If it’s not good info –   

                                                                  I don’t take rabbit health lightly.


                                                                • BunnyHugger
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                                                                    bam, Google “simethicone side effects.” Another possible side effect is diarrhea, which can be deadly to bunnies. Swelling of the throat would be very hard to see in time, as it would just appear that the bunny is continuing to not eat.

                                                                    What I found most unadvisable was Roberta saying that this med should continue to be given. This is the slippery slope of Internet medical advice.

                                                                    If an animal continues having distressing symptoms, they should be seen by a vet, not given more home remedies.


                                                                  • Roberta
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                                                                      Guys, If you want to debate take it off thread. I have just created a new one in the lounge. I could say more but I won’t. Sufficient to say that both Bam and I have dealt with chronic stasis and have offered what we found to be helpful. This is not helping kbun and they are the only one that matters on this thread.


                                                                    • Bam
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                                                                        bunny hugger:
                                                                        When taken as directed, simethicone usually has no side effects.http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/meds/a682683.html

                                                                        Again, BB clearly states: The answers provided on this board are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. It is your responsibility to assess the information being given and seek professional advice/second opinion from your veterinarian and/or qualified behaviorist.

                                                                         BB also clearly states that if a bunny hasn’t eaten or pooped in 12-24 hours, its a veterinary emergency.


                                                                      • LittlePuffyTail
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                                                                          I’m going to delete the posts that are off topic. The thread will be locked in the meantime. Please keep threads to the original topic. Roberta is correct in that BB does not allow harassment of any kind. We are all here because we love rabbits. There is no need for any thread to get so heated.

                                                                          Thank you Bam for stating that BB is for guideline purposes only.

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                                                                      Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Bunny not eating and acting listless