need help – rabbit peeing on floor

[genie1]

so we got this rabbit -coco from our neighbors. was neglected. so we bring her into our home and let her run around our living room – everything is great for around a week. there were no accidents, just some chewing problems that I rabbit proofed. then one day while on the couch I was petting her and she peed. from there it just escalated to every time I pet her or even looked at her she would poop and pee on the floor. I tried to dominate her and other things. I know it just made things worse. the way things are now is she is running around in a much smaller area and every time she poops I pick it up and put it in her cage, whenever she pees I just put her in her cage. but there seems to be no end it sight and I am getting discouraged. some other important info: there is me and my husband and 2 boys (7 & 9). when I was a kid I had a pet rabbit so I know a little bit about rabbits. back then I had a male rabbit and coco is a female. coco is 2 yrs old dwarf rabbit and is healthy according to a vet – not UTI or anything, she is not spayed and did have I litter that died some time before we got her. she did have a hutch in her cage but I threw it away (out of trying to establish dominance) but I did make her another hutch out of cardboard. I am unsure what to do about the hutch. if we put it in her cage she will stay in it all the time sometimes not even running around when she can. if we put her hutch in her cage I think it might end this nightmare sooner. I am just really unsure what to do with her. I want her to be an active member of the family and be able to run around and jump on the couch for a petting and not be afraid of her. but it seems that all that lies ahead is lots of poop and pee and not any fun from her. I just need some advice and words of encouragement. I just wish I had the good nature of my past bunny back.

[DethronedbyQueenB]

I am totally lost with the establishing dominance thing.
I am familiar with it in animals such as dogs- but not rabbits. Everything I have read says not to punish a rabbit and throwing away her security stuff sounds pretty harsh. I could see where it would increase her negative behaviors.
I think you are going about this all wrong, maybe read about rabbits and how to interact with them. They aren’t like cats and dogs and other predator animals- they are a prey animal and focusing on building her trust should be at the top of the list, not trying to dominate.
I dunno how to best word it and I’m no professional but I feel really sad for your bun losing her hutch and this dominating thing you are doing.

Hopefully other members with more experience and articulate wording will chime in.

[genie1]

I do realize how did do wrong and am trying to get something to work. the rabbit I had while in high school never had problems as bad as coco. I honestly don’t know what to do or if we will even be able to keep her. it’s awful- I have tried the bad things but I have also tried the good things and nothing seems to work. I tried to put her in her cage every 5 mins every time she pooped or peed. I gave her back her hutch last night and tried to let her run around 6 times this morning. and on the 6th time she came out went right up to me and peed. I do know that I am hardly giving anything that I try enough time to work (only a few days) but I don’t even see a tiny bit of good coming from anything. she seems to behave better without a hutch. right now I am just so confused and don’t know anything. I do know that if only I would see slight improvement right away or within a day or two then this would give me hope to stick it out long term. by hope I mean going from 15 mins to going around half an hour until her peeing. but I just don’t see any thing.

[DethronedbyQueenB]

I’m searching here on BinkyBunny and Google about bunnies peeing on owners and it seems that the answer is to get her fixed. 

If you can’t commit to her maybe ask around for places to rehome, so you have a place for her in advance if needed. 

[genie1]

thx – I would like to but found that some vets wont do females- plus the cost

[A Flying Brick]

Punishment doesn’t work that well on rabbits, deterants work ok tho. So try a spray bottle, like you would a cat.
Best thing you can do is get Coco desexed, that should fix the peeing problem. Also Coco needs her own space so a hutch or condo would be good. There are tutorials on making condos and I’m sure your kids would enjoy making it too. If she’s just had a litter her hormones will still be going crazy, hense why she’s peeing alot. So stick with it, if you can, she’ll get better when she can calm down, imagine losing a litter and getting a new home with strange new people and smells.

[genie1]

I know that she didn’t just loose her litter. and I did just give back a hutch to her. doubt its helping but I will give it a few days.

[pixmix]

So Anais had a similar problem near the end of the summer, and after thinking about it from every possible angle I could I came up with a couple reasons/solutions.

1. Behavioral. While you can train rabbits out of doing things you don’t want them to do, I think depending on the rabbit’s personality they react to training in different ways. For the longest time I was trying to train Anais not to chew on door frames and not to go in my room- the way I read that you do this is to clap your hands together behind them and deter their attention to something else. The good news is that she stopped chewing on door frames; the bad news is I did it a little too much and she started to get nervous. And nervousness leads to accidents. So even if the first accident was a mistake on her part (hey, it happens to the best of us) the other accidents was a reaction to something I was doing, not her.

2. Litter box. While I realized that retraining Anais how to use the litter may have been an issue, she still pooped in it just fine, so I scratched that out. However, I think I wasn’t changing Anais’s litter as much as she needed. Just because her litter could be used for three days doesn’t mean Anais preferred it that way. I then started to change her litter every other day.

3. Water. The accidents also corresponded with times when she’d drink a lot of water. And it boggled my mind why she would do that- it wasn’t particularly hot out, and she had plenty of food to eat so there should be no reason why she needed to fill her belly. I noticed, though, that while Anais ate MOST of her hay, she didn’t eat all of it. That’s when I realized that my rabbit, unfortunately for me, is a picky eater; she won’t eat hay if it is a few hours old. So while I thought she had enough food to eat, actually she was kind of hungry and resorted to her water.

In other words, I made a lot of changes in the way I take care of Anais. Most of the issues were things that I had to fix, not her. And of course, Anais can’t communicate with us like dogs could, so it takes a lot more observing on our part. Now, I’m not saying that Anais’s reasons for peeing are Coco’s reasons, but maybe they are similar. If you can’t afford to neuter her (I don’t blame you btw, because rabbit vets are crazy expensive) then I suggest retrain her with a litter box and also observe what is going on in her space other than the peeing issue. If you notice anything else that could be a contributing factor, let us know and we can help think it out.

[genie1]

thx – the only other thing that I can think of is that she used to pee a lot in her cage but doesn’t so much (or at least it seems) and she used to have her food ate by the next morning but no longer does have it finished by morning. I thought that this could mean a UTI but after obtaining a sample (oh boy was that fun) she was ruled to be healthy.

I do remember that she had been using a cedar \ pine bedding when we first got her. she first peed when that litter did need changing. so then we changed her over to a just pine shaving bedding. (cedar being a no – no). so I guess it could be that she doesn’t like the new bedding.

other important factors are that we had some reclining lazy boy chairs that she would go under. kept her caged for around a week till we could get rid of them. had her out 1 time then got a new loveseat. had her out and no accidents. then I secured the love seat so that she couldn’t chew on it. but she will jump on the loveseat and seems to have no problem with it.

the other important thing is that her cage is the type where there is no mesh on the bottom and she can hop in the bedding – and she does eat it – unfortunately. I seem to prefer the mesh bottom cage and we would like to get her this type of cage. we do not have a separate litter dish for inside her cage- this is just how her cage came.

[pixmix]

My bunny doesn’t have bedding- anything I put on the bottom of her cage for her comfort she seemed to just kick out of the way, so I stopped putting anything there. She does have a litter box though, and it is literally just a plastic tub (like what you would put in the sink) with scentless biodegradable kitty litter in it, nothing else. This seemed to work well for bunny. So basically in her cage, the litter box takes up the left side, there’s room in the middle, and then her stoop (a wooden box), water bottle, and hay feeder is on the right side. Would your cage have room for a set up like this, or do you think she really loves that bedding?

[pixmix]

Double post by accident, sorry!

[genie1]

well I have been noticing that with the pine she seems to dig it out of the way to lay on just the plastic. but I guess I would be nearvous about trying to get her to go in a box inside her cage. already having trouble and don’t want to start more type of thing. I know cedar is a big no-no , but what if I bought just a small bit to use and see if that doesn’t fix the problem – then I would know that its the bedding she doesn’t like.

how did you transition her to just a box? did she do it mainly by herself?

[pixmix]

I’m a foster mommy for Anais, so actually she was already litter trained when my friend gave her to me. But bunnies tend to expel when they are eating, so the idea is that you put her food where the litter is, like in some sort of feeder near it. Binky-bunny has other posts that describe the process. I do wonder though if it may be an option worth exploring? What if maybe you took her bedding and put it in a litter box, then put her hay near the box just to transition to the litter box? That way it is still something she is familiar with (the bedding) but now you are working at training her to go to the bathroom in a certain spot, as opposed to wherever she wants (the rest of the cage). If it doesn’t work, at least the litter box was only a cheap plastic tub that you can throw out easily enough. Also, if you don’t want to spend a lot of money on a feeder, I made mine out of a soda bottle I had- cut a big enough hole near the base for the bunny to get access to the hay, and wire the thing to the cage. (I’m a grad student, so I’m always looking for cheaper options/diys in all possible areas!)

I have faith in your Coco! If my Anais can get past that phase so can Coco.

[genie1]

just had an idea- could I be the problem?

every single time I let her out I am always in the section with her. maybe if I let her run around without me it will take away the stress even more and then she would be more relaxed and then not pee. then I could just re-bond with her later on. but if its dominance \ territorial would she just pee all the same? what if its someone neutral like one of my kids or husband. my oldest – 9 yrs- will play with her, picking her up making her dance just about smother her with love- but coco doesn’t seem to mind she hasn’t even scratched him. does this mean ‘Ev’ (my son) is seen as the boss?

[DethronedbyQueenB]

Just to put things into perspective as to how I see things with my buns-
Queen pooped on me once and while I didn’t want it to happen again- I was flattered she marked me. It was another sign at the time that I was “in” with her.
You really are focused in all your threads on this dominance, who is the boss, thing and while it is a factor- I don’t think your understanding that isn’t like dogs.

Buns WILL be dominant in some areas. That’s a given. Every time you pet her- she is dominant. Every time you give her a treat or do something to help her when she asks- she is dominant. But, there are times you will be dominant too. I wouldn’t worry about that anymore and just work on establishing a trusting relationship that works for both of you.

Picking a bunny up and making it dance sounds possibly dangerous. Are you reading about bunny care outside of the threads you post here?
That’s really really important.

The marking/territorial thing will get better if you get her fixed. It’s really hard to try to keep giving you ideas on how to address it when the biggest factor is she needs to be spayed. Everything else is like using a kleenex to mop up a spilled bucket.

[Hazel]

I’m sorry she’s giving you problems. Unfortunately, spaying is the best option to get this under control. Also, her risk of developing reproductive cancer by the age of 3-4 will be 85% if she stays intact. Spaying is always expensive, but pretty much a must because of the cancer risk.

If vets won’t do females, that means they aren’t confident in their skills, so that’s a big red flag and a good reason to find a different vet, even if she was a boy.

[genie1]

false pregnancy

so I just had her running around and noticed clumps of fur inside her cage. I know this is one sign of nesting but don’t see how she could be pregnant. could the problems have something to do with false pregnancy? we got her about a month ago and she has not been with another rabbit in that time, plus we just had her to a vet with a clean bill of health so I doubt a vet would mis a real pregnancy.

I tried letting her out without me inside the running area and it went really good. it took about an hour before she peed but she did no poop outside and she did seem more relaxed. so would this mean more of a territory thing over a dominance thing. thank you everyone I cant tell you how much better it feels to just talk this over with other people.

[genie1]

mu husband and I did talk and we will be getting her spayed but not for a few months due to $$. so it is a relief to get that out of my head. to me a pet is still a pet – however I do know how close they can tug at the heart stings. I had a pet rabbit got as a baby a male we never got around to neutering. he and I got very close- he lasted around 10 years. we never had to spend too much money on him or had too much trouble with him (I do believe that time has faded this big time). so I was thinking that a rabbit would be a great first pet for the boys- and it has. things this time have been not at all expected tho. we never really had a certain sex or anything in mind – our neighbors have had coco for years and were not giving her the attention she needed – so we decided to take a chance. everything was going great for about a week or two. so while I defiantly know how much love a pet can take this was not a rash decision on our part. just that we had never had any experience with a neglected female before. I know that she knows that she has a much better life with us even before we committed to getting her. the neighbors told me that she actually let me hold her and didn’t bite me when I clipped her nails. I realize that she still has to deal with her life of neglect and realize that it has stopped.

[genie1]

coco had the neglect very bad- it took 2 days full of scrubbing to get her cage clean, when I gave her a bath (just water) the water turned brown from all the filth on her, her nails were so long it was beginning to impede the way she was hopping. they kept her in the basement – however they feed her well enough. so glad we could rescue her from that . and just wish that she could settle down so that I can let her out for hours at a time and see her running her little race course she would run from one side of the room to the other. we have only had her for a short time but I have grown so attached to her – I have actually been crying at her being so bad lately and at the thought of us having to maybe re- home her. it is such a relief to know that even tho we might not be able to temporarily do her justice in her running around and spaying needs at least we will keep her and will try for a long term home. she really is already part of the family.

[BunnyHugger]

1. Rabbits don’t need bedding. They need a litter box. If you let them go to the bathroom anywhere they want in their own territory, they won’t respect yours. Where every she goes in the bare cage, stick the litterbox there. Same goes for outside the cage. They choose where they want to go. Pine shavings, by the way, are lethal to rabbits. They destroy their livers. Do your research on suitable litter.
2. Letting a child pick up and make a rabbit “dance” is terrifying to her. In Nature, the only time rabbits are picked up is when a predator carries them off. She thinks she’s about to be eaten. This is not love. Love is determining an animal’s needs, and responding to them. Rabbits require people to be very quiet and calm, sit on the floor with them, and allow the bunny to come to them. They frankly don’t make good child’s pets, unless the child is unusually calm and quiet. The high pitched noises kids make naturally, for example, sound much like the sound a rabbit makes when it’s being killed.
3. Taking her house away is another life threatening move. Rabbits spend most of their time hidden from predators, either in burrows or running rapidly to hiding places in tall grass, under logs, etc. A rabbit without a house will be close to having a heart attack from fear the entire time.
4. If your rabbit chooses to sit in her cage for hours or days, and the vet has ruled out illness, you simply need to wait patiently. It does sound to me as if you expect “playful” behavior from this neglected bun on the level of a young dog. First, she has been traumatized. Humans have meant nothing but pain and confusion. Second, she needs to feel secure before she will exhibit the delightful parts of her personality.

Just leave her alone. Don’t pet her unless she asks for petting, by pressing her chin on the ground. Don’t stick your hands in her cage if you can help it. Make her feel as safe as possible with hiding places and a litterbox, and leave her be. She’ll come out when she’s ready. I’ve rehabbed animals for decades, and it is literally like watching paint dry. If you want too much too soon, you’ll create an animal who fears and hides from you.

As for the dominance thing, I’m speechless. It sounds like you’ve been watching a very bad TV dog trainer, and further applying his outdated and cruel methods to a bunny.

[pixmix]

Genie, it’s really great that you are doing this for Coco. Clearly you care a lot about her after only having her for a short amount of time. I know the peeing phase will end. Just have patience with her and keep giving her the care she needs. You guys will get past this and after she is all spayed and set up, I know that you’ll look back and see that the effort was worth it. And remember there’s a whole community here ready to help with advice and tips.

[genie1]

thank you

[A Flying Brick]

A trick you can try is to leave something thats pee soaked in the tray. Since it smells like pee, she’ll want to pee there.
Also clean the site of any accidents up with water and vinegar to remove the smell so it’s not repeated.

[genie1]

do I have enough room in her cage? what is better a hutch or a litter pan?

her cage is roomy for her and her hutch. the hutch itself takes up about 1\3 of the cage and she will jump on top of it. I am just not sure if there is enough room in her cage for a litter pan as well. could I put the litter pan in her hutch (not sure that’s very nice to do). if I were to choose between the 2 things shouldn’t I keep the hutch? when she is out and about she does have a hidey hole that she likes.

[A Flying Brick]

You can put a litter tray in the hutch just fine, most people who build their own hutchs/condos normally do. Just make sure she has enough space to move around it, that she’s not sitting in it for too long and that it’s not left too smelly/full. You can buy smaller ones or covered corner ones, just remember that you have to clean them out more.

[genie1]

chances are if I put it in her hutch it will fill the hutch. any time in her hutch will be just litter time. her cage is set up with her hutch at one end, sliding door in the middle- that slides towards her hutch. other side of cage is a food bowl and water dispenser. she seems to do most of her ‘duty’ where her hutch is. I would like to put a litter box where her hutch is and open the doors to the hutch more (its stiff cardboard) then I would keep the dispenser where it is. but I don’t know where to put her food bowl.
my other rabbit would sit and eat from a dish strapped to the side of his cage and poop at the same time – but then I think that they don’t like their food by their bathroom- or is it that water should be kept away from their bathroom?

[DethronedbyQueenB]

Genie- I recommend youtube.
There are tons of videos there about rabbits and I have watched some showing how to set up a cage properly.

[Author]

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