Forum

OUR FORUM IS UP BUT WE ARE STILL IN THE MIDDLE OF UPDATING AND FIXING THINGS.  SOME THINGS WILL LOOK WEIRD AND/OR NOT BE CORRECT. YOUR PATIENCE IS APPRECIATED.  We are not fully ready to answer questions in a timely manner as we are not officially open, but we will do our best. 

You may have received a 2-factor authentication (2FA) email from us on 4/21/2020. That was from us, but was premature as the login was not working at that time. 

BUNNY 911 – If your rabbit hasn’t eaten or pooped in 12-24 hours, call a vet immediately! Don’t have a vet? Check out VET RESOURCES

The subject of intentional breeding or meat rabbits is prohibited. The answers provided on this board are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. It is your responsibility to assess the information being given and seek professional advice/second opinion from your veterinarian and/or qualified behaviorist.

What are we about?  Please read about our Forum Culture and check out the Rules

BUNNY 911 – If your rabbit hasn’t eaten or pooped in 12-24 hours, call a vet immediately!  Don’t have a vet? Check out VET RESOURCES 

The subject of intentional breeding or meat rabbits is prohibited. The answers provided on this board are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet.  It is your responsibility to assess the information being given and seek professional advice/second opinion from your veterinarian and/or qualified behaviorist.

BINKYBUNNY FORUMS

Forum THE LOUNGE Terminally ill woman in Oregon takes own life

Viewing 40 reply threads
  • Author
    Messages

    • JPetrucci84
      Participant
      256 posts Send Private Message

        So I was just wondering who everyone else thought of the terminally woman who took her own life? Some say it’s suicide because she did take her own life before her brain tumor took over. Others say she was right in taking her own life by lethal dose of medication, therefore ending her life.

         

        My opinion is that while it’s very unlikely that one day she would be magically cured from the tumor, I still disagree with her taking her own life. I don’t necessarily call it suicide, though I still call it taking her own life since it wasn’t a natural death. I hate seeing people in agony over their deteriorating bodies, but I hate thinking that they want to end themselves because it’s more “dignified”. Yes, we do it all the time to pets but I feel like human life is more important than our pets.

         

        So what is YOUR take on this whole thing?


      • LongEaredLions
        Participant
        4482 posts Send Private Message

          Just a friendly reminder when discussing topics like this-
          (From our rules)
          F. Debates: Let’s keep this board light! Light discussions and differing opinions about rabbit welfare is fine, but please refrain from getting into debates about God, Government, Animal Rights rights in general (eg. like anti-vivisection aka: for science/medicine, rabbits as food, and about controversial highly charged subjects and groups) or any serious ethical debate.

          This should be fine as long as everyone is respectful & considerate of each other.
          Thanks everyone!


        • JPetrucci84
          Participant
          256 posts Send Private Message

            Yeah, I apologize for kind of starting a debate which is against the rules, but I wanted to see everyone’s thoughts. I was hoping this wouldn’t be a big deal as long as we’re all in accordance with aforementioned rule.

            PS Don’t get me wrong, I would NEVER want to be in her situation and I’m sure I would change my opinion if the day were to ever come. All condolences to her family and friends despite her choice.


          • Diamond
            Participant
            459 posts Send Private Message

              I hadnt heard of this story, so i dont know the details, but honestly, if the choices are between a ‘natural death’ hooked up to a million machines after a slow and torturous deterioration, and ending your life on your own terms, I really can’t fault her.


            • Hazel
              Participant
              2587 posts Send Private Message

                It doesn’t really matter to me if people want to call it suicide or not. She took her own life and I think it was her right to do so. If someone is terminally ill, it should be their choice how far they want to go, how much pain/suffering they are willing to take and how they want to die. No one should have the right to tell them otherwise.

                JPetrucci brought up the fact that we euthanize our pets and that a human life is more important than an animal’s and therefor it shouldn’t be done with humans. I actually see it the other way around. We don’t allow an animal to die in pain, if a human life is more precious, why do people not deserve the mercy of a painless death, as well?


              • BrunosMama
                Participant
                1485 posts Send Private Message

                  Bearing in mind this is just a debate, this is exactly the kind of topic I don’t want to see when looking at a bunny forum. This subject has come up between myself and close friends, and it’s uncomfortable with them. Even more so with strangers. It has been mentioned before, if u don’t like a thread, don’t read/respond to it. I agree with this idea, but it’s not always easily practiced.

                  Since I’m typing anyways, I feel her decision was cowardly. Instead of being like everyone else in life who have suffered for eons, she felt it was necessary to make a BIG to do about basically committing suicide. She sent the message to young people and. sick people everywhere “you don’t have to face reality. You don’t have to deal with things. If u think it’s too much, just die. Your friends and loved ones won’t suffer over your selfish decision.”

                  Sorry, mods, of that was inappropriate.


                • Deleted User
                  Participant
                  22064 posts Send Private Message

                    I haven’t read the story about the lady, and I choose not to do so – it’s non of my business. But on the topic, my mother took her own life, and everyone is free to call it what you want. She suffered in pain, the worst sort of illness I have ever witnessed – depression. It was so cruel! All these years later I am still devastated by her loss and miss her desperately – words can’t describe how I feel losing my mum regardless of how her life ended. But I have nothing but respect for her decision. To leave ME and her grandkiddies behind, I knew she had enough of this world. What saddens me the most? How awful her life was to take this action – I am desperately sad that she left our world so miserable and ‘alone’. There were no notes, nothing! I am still angry at her – she should have given me the chance to say ‘I love you, I’m sorry and thank you for being MY mum and most importantly my best friend’! I will spend the rest of my life being lonely without her presence. The problem with taking your own life is the devastation you leave behind – I’ll never recover from this, because it had to be kept a secret. But in the next breath I don’t expect anyone to have to live in misery or pain – why it should be ‘your’ choice. You shouldn’t have to leave this world alone behind closed doors with no one knowing – we as human’s should have the same rights and respect as we offer our beloved animals.

                    When my time comes….. I can only hope that an option will be available to me if I’m suffering.

                    PS – It’s not a general conversation topic amongst people I talk to, but I never shy away from it – it’s real! and should be addressed.
                    My hubby reckons he will never pull the plug on me, he wants me to suffer, ha ha ha! But my daughter has promised me that she will!
                    See, we should be able to talk about this in general conversation and make light of it when appropriate. When I first started writing I was in tears – now that I am finishing and added a ‘ha ha’ – I am all ok. We are just chatting, sharing our views on a subject/topic that needs to be discussed if we want changes made. I’d like changes made. I want the choice.


                  • JackRabbit
                    Participant
                    5451 posts Send Private Message

                      I’m with AH.


                    • A Flying Brick
                      Participant
                      74 posts Send Private Message

                        I haven’t read this story but I’ve seen others like it. (I’ll try to keep this within forum rules, but feel free to delete this if it strays too far)
                        AH would of heard of the doctor and pro-euthanasia campaigner (not saying names) currently in the news, I do believe he does go a little far in saying anyone has the right to take their life. But I believe that if there is no way for you to recover, you should be allowed to chose to die with dignity on your own terms.

                        I find this topic has come up with my family a fair ammount reacently since the loss of my nan almost a year ago and with the loss of some other family members, that I didn’t personally know but it was still sad.

                        I’ll also say this: suicide should be the last resort, not done because grandpa is old or out of depression.
                        I have more to say on this but I’m sure it’ll trample some people’s beliefs, so I’ll just leave it there.


                      • Deleted User
                        Participant
                        22064 posts Send Private Message

                          Cheers JR! And I want to ‘ditto’ everything Hazel said. Diamond – to be so young yet so grown up! You keep amazing me.

                          And I can’t emphasize enough that we should be able to discuss this topic (nicely, ha ha ha!), it really is important.


                        • Roberta
                          Participant
                          4355 posts Send Private Message

                            She knew Andi, and it was foremost in her heart…. I doubt the decision was made without that consideration and truly believe that part of that was to spare her loved ones the burden. My father past two years ago and he was the opposite, his father was terrified of death and he infected my father with it… Dad fought to the last and that was his right, it did not make it easier. Some may know that I spent some of my life as a mortician and funeral director, I saw families and individuals coping and managing the foreknowledge of their own mortality. The most poignant being a man who arranged the funeral for his friend that he had met through a cancer management group. He did this for his friends wife, all were present and involved including several other members of the group, what I did not know was he himself was terminal without hope of remission or cure. He was a man of great dignity and it was heart breaking to arrange and conduct his funeral a few months later. What I did learn in this time is that no one can dictate how people should feel or grieve, every one must do it in their own time and manner. I have lost friends to suicide, some simply because they were angry and it was a way to strike out and others because they hoped to avoid pain for themselves and their loved ones… No one case is the same nor can anyone dictate how another must grieve.


                          • LongEaredLions
                            Participant
                            4482 posts Send Private Message

                              I can’t tell you how grateful I am that we can all voice our opinions and still keep utmost respect for others-very rare thing to find on internet forums!

                              My thoughts are that this woman had right to do what she did-if I had to choose between peaceful death at home or an extended death hooked up to life support, I would take her path as well. It was her life, and since the end of her life was drawing near anyways, I don’t think it is unreasonable that she wanted to be comfortable. She had the support of her family and doctors, and beyond that, I don’t think it is my business to say what was right/wrong for her.

                              However, I can definitely agree with other statements made as well, especially what BM said. I have goods/bads both ways.

                              In the end, I just want to keep her family in my thoughts-how devastating to lose a loved one, no matter how it happened. <3


                            • Roberta
                              Participant
                              4355 posts Send Private Message

                                I should add this although I do not know how it will be received. I am a pagan and I suppose you could say a witch. I am part of a global network of healers. When I arrived home from the hospital after my fathers passing I had a message in my direct email from a friend in the states. It was timed exactly 15 minutes after my fathers passing. ” I know your father has passed, he wanted to let you know that he is no longer afraid. He is safe and happy. I can see him on a hill by a beach surrounded by daffodils and he is sitting with a woman (My aunt Daphne who we knew as Aunt Daffy) He is happy and at peace”
                                They did not know he was ill let alone dying, I had kept it very private. This message sustained my family through the days that followed.


                              • Deleted User
                                Participant
                                22064 posts Send Private Message

                                  Wow Roberta! Once I wiped the tears from my eyes again, and the screen stopped blurring, I was able to read your words of compassion and strength – thank you! No wonder your an amazing person. I visited my Grandma days before she died (after my mum’s passing) who died of old age at 95 – it broke my heart just as much. To see this woman that I treasured all through my life, look so tiny and fragile. I was to scared to bend over and kiss her in case I broke her! But it was old age that took her, and she had the morphine patch – I couldn’t wish a better passing on anyone. I left her room with a sense of peace, and I got to say I love you and thank you (I couldn’t say ‘goodbye’). It is disappointing that it took for me to endure what I have to come to this conclusion, but I respect the ‘what and why’, and how dare I (who doesn’t have a clue) frown upon anyone for their decision/choices. I just, quite simply, find it sad.

                                  I don’t have any beliefs (other than being kind and respectful) FB, and everyone is entitled to their own opinions for their own reasons, so don’t worry about offending anyone, that is what a discussion is about. But I will say, I’d like think (I don’t know this) that taking your own life is a last resort. My mum pleaded with mental health to help her and our doctor (family doctor for 40 years – that I have not returned to, I can’t!) for help. I thought she was ok – nope!

                                  I only know I don’t wish pain or suffering on anyone/thing. Most may decline the offer, but I’d like to have the choice available to me and others when and if you know your time on this earth is at it’s end – it’s not even so much a dignity thing for me – I can’t stand pain or suffering.


                                • JackRabbit
                                  Participant
                                  5451 posts Send Private Message

                                    Dying is one of those topics that can run the full gamut of emotions. I don’t know that, even in that position, I could actually do it but would want the choice. From the day my father found out he had stage 4 cancer, he gave in to dying. He didn’t have any idea how long he might have. I knew. 2 to 11 months. He made it 7.5 months, the last 3 in the hospital. He did not want to die at home because he knew we would never be able to get that last picture out of our minds. He was ready to go from the start but had no options.

                                    I watched my father go from a tall, heavy yet muscular tower of a man I dearly loved to a frail withered shell of someone I hardly recognized. I was with him through tears, chemo (to reduce the tumor enough for him to keep food down), countless blood transfusions. I took over my parents’ finances, made all arrangements with his input, processed his disability retirement, wrote and gave a speech at the retirement function he could not attend. I was the one who had to talk him down when he became agitated and confused from so much morphine, and the one to tell him it was time to stop receiving blood. I did, however, get to say goodbye and tell him how much I loved him. Had he had options, I don’t believe he would have allowed me to be put in that position. I would not want my child to so vividly remember those 7.5 months.

                                    AH — I wish you had at least had the chance to say goodbye. Too often, that’s the part that the family needs but doesn’t get.

                                    Roberta — you are way too many people rolled into one. While anything afterlife creeps me out, scares the hell out of me, and totally fascinates me, I have to admit I didn’t see any of that coming! And here I thought you were just a bunny lover with a really cool bathtub!


                                  • Deleted User
                                    Participant
                                    22064 posts Send Private Message

                                      You did it again JR – I started reading your post and was in tears again…. (it truly is so sad!), and how wonderful are you! I wish I was half the person you are, I was an absolute mess – I couldn’t feel my broken heart, the sickness in my tummy overwhelmed me. This is gonna sound silly, but I spent a lot of time sitting outside (numb) in the sun watching ants. When I got up I was careful not to step on any of them – I couldn’t take a life of an ant! I have NEVER told anyone that. It was toooo silly, yet so important to me at that time.

                                      By the end of your post I was laughing – thank you! (thank goodness for Roberta’s bath tub!).


                                    • LongEaredLions
                                      Participant
                                      4482 posts Send Private Message

                                        Reading this…. :'(


                                      • TheMidnightSapphire
                                        Participant
                                        323 posts Send Private Message

                                          I personally believe that if the suffering is so great that a person can’t take it they should have the right to end their life.
                                          Nobody deserves to be stuck, hooked up to a machine, maybe with a tube down their nose feeding them being trapped and in constant pain.
                                          (Within reason) If they want to me made comfortable and freed, let them do so.
                                          I can totally see where BrunosMama is coming from but I personally believe that nobody should have to suffer and have a slow, agonising death without having had the option to end it more peacefully.

                                          My, this is a touchy subject!


                                        • Sarita
                                          Participant
                                          18851 posts Send Private Message

                                            Thank you to everyone for sharing your stories. Death hurts in any way that people leave us.

                                            My husband has Stage 4 Lung Cancer and is now at the end of his battle and he wants to live. He knows his time is short and frankly I’m scared to death and I cry seeing him suffer especially because he doesn’t want to give up but this awful disease is in charge of his life no matter what his doctor tries. He is in great pain all the time and if he wanted to go now I would cry and be sad but I would know that he hasn’t made the choice lightly BUT that is now what he has chosen to do – he has chosen a do not resuscitate (but wants pain management).

                                            I can say that it is important to do a living will and an advanced directive to your doctors as well when you have a terminal illness.

                                            As for this young woman who chose to end her life, I understand why she did and I think everyone knew in the end she would not survive the brain tumor. And it was her decision. It would be hard for me to make this decision for my loved ones though but if you are making it for yourself knowing the outcome of your illness is death, then I am fine with it.

                                            As for my pets, I feel that it is my duty as a steward to my animals to make decisions for them that are in their best interest and I have done it many times and am grateful I can make that decision for them. We know they are suffering but we cannot know to what extent so I can only chose to let them leave peacefully sooner rather than later.


                                          • Diamond
                                            Participant
                                            459 posts Send Private Message

                                              I just realized there was probably another factor. Im not sure exactly how it works on Oregon,but in the US, we generally have to pay a lot for our healthcare. I dont t know her and her family’s insurance situation, but I don’t think end of life care is cheap either.


                                            • Hazel
                                              Participant
                                              2587 posts Send Private Message

                                                Diamond: She actually didn’t live in Oregon at first, she had to move there from another state to do this legally because Oregon is the only state that allows it.

                                                Sarita: I’m so sorry about what you and your hubby are going through. I wish you both lots of strength.


                                              • Bam
                                                Moderator
                                                16836 posts Send Private Message

                                                  I don’t think it’s cowardly to take your own life in a situation like hers. I don’t think I would’ve had the guts to do it if it were I. It’s an extremely personal choice. I’m not inclined to judge a person who is in a situation that is so unimaginable. For some people I think it’s best that it’s illegal in most places, some sick people are perhaps not so strong that they can make the decision to live knowing that they probably are a burden on society and/or the family. It’d not be right to guilt people into ending their lives.


                                                • JackRabbit
                                                  Participant
                                                  5451 posts Send Private Message

                                                    Sarita — I feel for you. I watched my grandmother be taken quickly by ovarian cancer, my uncle taken in just over a month from diagnosis by pancreatic cancer. But, I lived my father being taken by esophageal and stomach cancer, and found out right after he was diagnosed that I have the precurser (Barrett’s esophagus) to the same thing. Its hard from a distance, but even harder when its someone close to you and you’re going through the stages of grief right alongside them. I dealt with my father’s illness by going onto “auto pilot” and taking over every aspect I could control. My parents coped by stepping back and letting me take things off of them.I wish I could tell you that I found the secret to making it all easier on everyone involved and that I could send you a magic pill that would fix everything but the disease and the bag of emotions that come with it are bigger than we are. Don’t be afraid or too proud to lean on anyone and everyone, including us on BB.

                                                    Roberta — My husband is a very religious person and disagrees with what the source was for this, but I believe my father sent me a few messages after his passing. The first was him calling my name. He rarely ever said my name (he just always said “hey”), but this time he said my name and it was most definitely in his very distinct accent.

                                                    Soon after his death, we bought and began renovations on my parents’ house so that my mother could be with us and we could take care of her (we planned this before my father’s passing). The second message came a few months after he passed. I had been to the cemetery and had been upset that the grass was taking so long to grow. This time, there was grass growing in the shape of a C (my first initial) on his grave. I stared at it, creeped out but sure that it must just be my imagination and that someone had done a crappy job with the grass seed, but told my dad that if he was trying to tell me something he was going to have to clearer than that. A week later when I went back (we had just taken out the construction loans), and the C on his grave had turned into a perfect dollar sign. He was somewhat of a tightwad, and he was apparently not pleased with the amount of money we were spending on the renovations! From that point, I kept him informed on the progress at the house!


                                                  • Bam
                                                    Moderator
                                                    16836 posts Send Private Message

                                                      Sarita, I only read your post just now. I’m so sorry for what you are going through. My father died of cancer and he wanted to live too.


                                                    • LongEaredLions
                                                      Participant
                                                      4482 posts Send Private Message

                                                        Sarita-I know i say this often, but as always I am thinking of you two and sending my hugs. (((((Big comforting vibes)))))


                                                      • A Flying Brick
                                                        Participant
                                                        74 posts Send Private Message

                                                          Sarita- my nan was like that too, she had pancreatic cancer. She was in remission but she didn’t make it. But she never wanted to die.

                                                          Some people do want to die tho, as not only do they want to die but they’ve accepted it. And those people are the ones that should be allowed to end their life. In the Netherlands, you can die this way. There’s very strict rules that I won’t go into here, it’s all on wikipedia, but it’s only legal in cases of “hopeless and unbearable suffering”.


                                                        • Stickerbunny
                                                          Participant
                                                          4128 posts Send Private Message

                                                            Honestly, we consider ending the suffering of a terminal illness one of the kindest things we can do for our furry/feathered companions. I see no reason why a human should not be allowed that same courtesy. She wasn’t going to live, she had no future and she chose to die while she still had her dignity. My family who died “naturally” from cancers got to the point they were in constant pain, totally out of it and not even there anymore from the amount of pain meds, wasted away to a shell of themselves and not even able to clean themselves. I cannot fault anyone for wanting to say goodbye to family and friends while they can still be themselves and in control.


                                                          • Little Lion Head
                                                            Participant
                                                            1706 posts Send Private Message

                                                              Can I just say that I love that we are all here b/c we love our bunnies and yet we’re pulled together into such an intimate topic. Not only that, we are able to articulate ourselves appropriately and respectfully! I think it goes to show; bunny lovers are some of the best kind of people out there!

                                                              Sarita–just want to say you are in my thoughts. So sorry you are going through this.

                                                              JR–your last post!!! I just love it! I was just 21 when I lost my dad 7 years ago. He was 60 when I was born, so at his death he was 81. Chronic sufferer of COPD from smoking since he was 12 years old. I was at college two hours ago, out celebrating a friend’s birthday when I got the call to get home NOW. My boyfriend at the time (husband now) and I had been together just 6 months and were on the verge of a break up, but he picked me up from the bar (him sober–me not so much) and drove like a bat out of hell to get me home. He stayed by my side and made several trips back and forth (two hours each way) to be with me and be able to go to work. I will never get over losing my dad; he was the number one person in my life, so it’s weird to think that if I hadn’t lost him, I’m not sure if my hubby and I would be together today. And I am SO glad that we are!!

                                                              So anyway, back to your post JR–speaking of going to the cemetery, it’s something my brother and I did frequently after he passed. We would take a few beers, plop down on the ground and smoke cigarettes with dad (I don’t smoke anymore! yay me!). We would always light one for him and leave it by his grave. We spent more than one night drunk at the cemetery (always w/ a DD!), laughing in the winter with our shovels to uncover his grave stone in the ground. Could you imagine if the cops showed up! But it helped us to cope! And we eat peanuts there every cold Iowa Christmas eve and drop the shells on his grave(as kids, we always got peanuts in our Christmas Even bags at Church, but dad always ate them). My dad was quiet man; we would jabber all day while he ignored us; we laugh b/c hanging out at the cemetery isn’t much different


                                                            • MoxieMeadows
                                                              Participant
                                                              5375 posts Send Private Message

                                                                I feel that although it’s hard for everybody involved with her situation, it is her life. If she didn’t want to spend the last of her days hooked up to countless tubes, wires, and machines, especially if the tumor started affecting her memory/ability to talk ect. it was her right. I know I don’t want to go not being able to move or remember my family and friends and how much I love them. Also, if there was no chance of recovering, she might not have wanted to leave the burden of a huge, unneccesary bill on their hands, along with funeral costs ect. I haven’t heard the story, but I’ll be thinking of the family.


                                                              • JackRabbit
                                                                Participant
                                                                5451 posts Send Private Message

                                                                  LLH — Your post was so neat that it made me cry! I spent my first birthday after my father passed at the cemetery talking to him. I’m sure he was watching over me and thinking, “Will you stop talking and go home! I’m trying to sleep!”. I love that you guys eat peanuts with him. I think its important to keep those who’ve left us alive in our hearts.

                                                                  Similarly, if someone isn’t ready to go and wants to fight, whether through treatments or by fighting the pain, I think its important to be supportive of them and keep them involved as much as they are able. And REALLY important to know what they want once they aren’t able to participate as much.

                                                                  Just because someone is ill doesn’t mean they’re already gone. Not that any story of someone dying is good, I work with a lady whose husband had liver cancer, and I think they “did it right” for their situation. He decided he didn’t want to artificially prolong his life but that he wanted to enjoy the time he had left and only wanted pain management. To start their journey, they took an island vacation — even went to a nude beach because he’d never been (he was in his 70’s and she was on her 40’s)! They went out to eat at restaurants they had always wanted to try. They celebrated “patch day” when hospice came with new pain patches. They got married a few weeks before he died (they had both been married before and hadn’t felt a need yet) so he could “make an honest woman out of her”! I know she lost her best friend and soulmate when he passed, but they helped each other through the transition all the way to the end.


                                                                • Little Lion Head
                                                                  Participant
                                                                  1706 posts Send Private Message

                                                                    JR–Sounds like our dad’s had similar traits. When he was alive, if he was sick of us making noise, he would turn on his nebulizer machine (to help clear his lungs) b/c it was loud and he could drown us out. Haha I can just hear him gruffly telling us to go home and do something useful!

                                                                    I totally believe in our loved ones sending us signs and I love that your dad was mad at you for spending too much money!

                                                                    Isn’t it funny that we don’t do these things (like your story of the 70 and 40 year old), but instead wait until it’s almost too late?


                                                                  • JPetrucci84
                                                                    Participant
                                                                    256 posts Send Private Message

                                                                      Wow so much to take in!!

                                                                      Firstly, I commend all of the families afflicted by the loss of a loved one by this unfortunate happening. I lost a friend of mine years ago because he, too, couldn’t take any more. I of all people feel about this mainly because of my own experience with depression. I have been diagnosed with chronic depression, and anxiety. I always knew I wasn’t normal (in any form of the word). I never really had a lot of friends, either. I was always last picked at sports, and never really reached out to anyone. Finally I had enough and tried to take my own life. Learning from that experience, it has helped me be a role model for those who are down and feel like there isn’t anyone who knows how they feel. But there IS. There are MANY people who know that this is not a “solo” option. The sad fact of the matter is that depression takes lives. Celebrities, family members, all part of this experience. It doesn’t discriminate origins, colors, sex at all. I feel like now that I have gotten over this hump of my life, I can share my experience and be a helping hand up or shoulder for someone so they can maybe pass it on. That’s why I look down on suicide. It ISN’T the end, and I wish people could understand that. If we were to reach out to those who want to end it all, maybe we can change lives and help bring back the happiness we once had (or start building a new set of friends and future happiness). Sometimes I even wonder if it’s a type of “Calling” in life. To be a foundation for those who maybe didn’t get to be shown that they ARE loved, despite what we are told or feel about ourselves. We are all lucky to have a life in this world, and it shouldn’t be

                                                                      To be honest, the way I feel about this woman IS a hard decision. When I think about it, I would NEVER want to be in her shoes. My cousin is also someone whose life is deteriorating by the moment. When he was very young, he got a rare disease that has confined him to a wheelchair and he can hardly move. He says “yes” and “no” by moving his eyes, and move his hand a little use his computer to talk to people. He always says that he wants to die, that he can’t stand being this way. I feel bad for him, and a part of me says that I would want the same if I were that way. He wasn’t supposed to live passed 12 or so, but here he is now 30 years old. He’s really just waiting to die, but until then he’s fed through a tube in his stomach. I would be happy to be alive, though I understand his pain.

                                                                      My own father passed away from suicide. He started out well, but evil demons of temptation came to him in the from of drugs and alcohol. He started his slow downhill pledge when he got more into debt, and more into drugs. He had no relationship with any of his five kids. He was abusive and very destructive. I think that he was partially depressed as well, but more afraid of his consequences of his actions while he was on this Earth.

                                                                      THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed thus far. We all welcome your comments and I know we’re all here for each other.


                                                                    • LBJ10
                                                                      Moderator
                                                                      16869 posts Send Private Message

                                                                        I don’t know, I guess for me, there is a difference between committing suicide as a result of depression and choosing to end one’s suffering from a terminal illness. I’m not saying that people with depression are not in pain or that they don’t get pushed to the edge sometimes and feel there is no other way out. People who suffer from depression do indeed suffer. I should know, I cycle through depression and anxiety on a pretty regular basis. But to compare someone committing suicide after a long battle with depression to someone choosing to end their suffering from a terminal illness is really like comparing apples to oranges. Both are sad, of course, but for very different reasons.

                                                                        As for the person in the article, I absolutely agree with Stickerbunny. We often believe it is a far kinder thing to end a pet’s suffering, so why shouldn’t that apply to a person? If the person is going to die anyway, then why shouldn’t they be able to end their suffering? They should not be forced to prolong the inevitable if they do not want to. In Oregon, people are allowed that choice under the law. So if she wanted to leave this world while she was still “herself”, then I don’t think anyone should judge her. If someone wants to hang on for as long as they can with pain management, then that should be their decision too. Those are just my thoughts on the matter.


                                                                      • Bam
                                                                        Moderator
                                                                        16836 posts Send Private Message

                                                                          With regards to people who are depressed and kill themselves I have to say that I regard their suicides as a symptom of their disease. I’m diagnosed with chronic depression and anxiety and it’s a feature of my illness that I often can’t see any hope or light at the end of the tunnel etc. This has taken me more years than I want to think about to realize.

                                                                          This doesn’t mean that depression isn’t very painful. It’s definitely a disability, but it IS a disability. So I think depressed people should be stopped from killing themselves when they are acutely depressed (I e worse than they are “normally”).

                                                                          Cancer of the brain may of course also influence one’s ability to think clearly.


                                                                        • MoveDiagonally
                                                                          Participant
                                                                          2361 posts Send Private Message

                                                                            I just wanted to post this for anyone not familiar with how the law works here.

                                                                            In Oregon, someone suffering from depression would not be allowed to use the Death with Dignity Act to end their life. It’s for people with a diagnosed terminal illness that will kill them in 5 months or less. It’s something the patient must initiate and ask for with at least two witnesses. One of which can’t be involved in their care or benefit from their death (via inheritance, ect…). They must then be evaluated by a second physician and then be determined to be of sound mind. If there is any inkling the patient might be depressed or being coerced they must undergo mental evaluation. If after all is said and done their request is approved they must wait an additional 15 days and then ask their physician a second time. If the patient meets the requirements a physician is legally protected if they choose to prescribe a lethal dose of prescription medication. They can refuse to do so as participation by physicians, pharmacists, and health care providers is voluntary. The patient can rescind their request at any time.

                                                                            Death with Dignity isn’t there to help people kill themselves because they are depressed or even for those in pain. No matter how debilitating the pain is if they were expected to live longer than 5 months they wouldn’t qualify. It’s there for people of sound mind who are facing the reality that they will not live much longer and giving them the ability to choose how they want to leave this world. I don’t think it’s wrong for them to be able to choose and I don’t think their choice is my business.


                                                                          • LBJ10
                                                                            Moderator
                                                                            16869 posts Send Private Message

                                                                              Thanks for pointing that out MD. I don’t think that was made clear. Yes, the person has to be terminally ill with not much longer to live anyway in order to qualify. That’s why I said it was like comparing apples to oranges.


                                                                            • Hazel
                                                                              Participant
                                                                              2587 posts Send Private Message

                                                                                Posted By LBJ10 on 11/09/2014 9:17 PM

                                                                                I don’t know, I guess for me, there is a difference between committing suicide as a result of depression and choosing to end one’s suffering from a terminal illness.

                                                                                I agree with LBJ 100%. While depression is horrible and people suffer greatly from it, it’s not a terminal illness, in and of itself. It can be improved in most cases, if the tools and help is made available to people with depression. There’s no hope for a cure for someone with terminal cancer or another terminal disease. Ending your life in that circumstance is very different.

                                                                                AndHenry: I’m so sorry about your mother. It made me so sad reading your post about her. But I’m sure she knew how much you loved her. *hugs*


                                                                              • Deleted User
                                                                                Participant
                                                                                22064 posts Send Private Message

                                                                                  Thank you Hazel – your hug was needed and appreciated. Like I said, I still struggle to this day, 5 years later. I’m actually sitting here having another cry to myself – gosh I hate it! And to make it worse, my tissue box is empty (great for Henry – a new toy!) but I need to wipe my nose and dry my tears, and with the weather being warm I can’t even use my sleeve – bugga! Ok, I took a few minutes, I’m all ok now….

                                                                                  Please, don’t anyone think I support taking your life, especially over depression. I didn’t go into detail with my mum – she suffered chronic pain which contributed to her depression. I remember her telling me amongst everything, her gum’s ached – how horrible! Her illness was very rare – she was told 1% in the world and no research was being done – she didn’t fall into the majority. She also had a hard life, being abandoned by her friends and family when she had to leave my father before he was killed in a car accident when I was 7, and was left to support us on her own in a whole new town away from anything she knew. I still remember our clothes hanging off rope strung across our room and other stuff sitting in drawers on the floor with no cabinet. We didn’t have a tv till, gosh, I can’t remember??? So she took on keeping us entertained every night. I also remember her dreading that she woke up every morning to face another day in pain if she could get to sleep the night before – sleep was her only peace. She wanted eternal sleep where nothing hurt anymore.
                                                                                  All’s I was saying was ‘I get it’. And I was saddened that my mum had to do it alone – she tried to get help, she begged and pleaded for it – no one helped her. Why I wanted to say “I’m sorry”. (sorry, crying again), what I’d do to have her with me again.

                                                                                  Sarita – my heart aches for you and your hubby. I don’t know who is in the worst position – you or your husband? All’s I know is – I’ve shed tears for you both. It’s so unfair! I want to make it clear that as much as I want a choice when my times comes, for those that value life and are prepared to fight for it, I think every resource should be made available to them. I’m not sure which is braver – fighting for your life or letting go. I just know both deserve every respect and their wishes should be considered regardless of how any one feels – why the law should allow for both. The right to fight for life, or the right to end it.

                                                                                  PS – I don’t believe in any after life. But my mum came to me in my dreams – I woke up a few times very distressed, dreaming about her leaving me. Then I had dreams where she was still with me and woke up happy only to remember she wasn’t. I know it’s my head trying to deal with my loss.
                                                                                  But it doesn’t stop me taking comfort in someone’s words who believes in the afterlife. I grasp at anything!


                                                                                • LBJ10
                                                                                  Moderator
                                                                                  16869 posts Send Private Message

                                                                                    Aww, Andi, I’m sorry. If what I said upset you, it wasn’t my intention. I was just trying to point out that this woman’s situation was a bit different. What you mom went through sounds really awful and it’s clear she was suffering. When you think about it, she was fighting for a long time. Otherwise, she wouldn’t have been around for as long as she was. To me, that shows how much she loved you.


                                                                                  • Little Lion Head
                                                                                    Participant
                                                                                    1706 posts Send Private Message

                                                                                      AndHenry–I feel for you and the dreams about your mom.

                                                                                      Growing up, I always knew I would be young when my dad died; since he was 60 when I was born, it was like I was just waiting for it. That sounds morbid, but anyways, I would constantly dream that he died and wake up in a cold sweat screaming and crying. I would get my thoughts together and be so elated that he was still here that I’d go see him or call him immediately.

                                                                                      After dad passed I would have these dreams that he was still alive. These were worse than the old dreams! There’s nothing worse than being in bliss in your dreams only to wake and find out it wasn’t real.

                                                                                      Over the years, I’ve continued to have dreams about my dad, but now they are awesome. We have long conversations and it feels so good to “catch up.” The difference is, now I know, even in my sleep, that it’s just a dream and he’s still gone. I wake up feeling refreshed and comforted.

                                                                                      AndHenry, I hope you find a way to deal with your mom’s passing that helps you feel good about things. Even if you never have complete closure, I hope that you can find some comfort in the dreams or other ways! She sounds like she was an amazing woman!!


                                                                                    • Bam
                                                                                      Moderator
                                                                                      16836 posts Send Private Message

                                                                                        You all write so beautifully about your family-members.

                                                                                        Andi, I certainly never thought you advocated suicide for depressed persons. Your mother suffered. If you don’t get appropriate help for your depression (and by that I mean help that actually helps), you are lost in a tempest of terror and despair where it’s always dark and with pain on top – there’s only so much a person can cope with. I’ve been lucky enough to get to see a really good psychologist and doctor for 5 years and that has made a big difference. Of course your mother loved you and knew you love her, or she wouldn’t have hung in there for so long. I’m so sorry she didn’t find any other way out.

                                                                                        I just wanted to point out that suicide is sometimes a valid choice but that those who make the laws about these things must be very, very careful.

                                                                                        LLH, it really is terrible when you wake up and that first brief second of bliss is replaced by reality, the shock of grief that starts all over again.

                                                                                    Viewing 40 reply threads
                                                                                    • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

                                                                                    Forum THE LOUNGE Terminally ill woman in Oregon takes own life