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Forum DIET & CARE Urgently need help on medication

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    • Avantika
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        We took Moshu to the vet today (we noticed a significant decrease in her activity and appetite..all she used to do was change rooms every fifteen minutes and lay flat on the ground, was more cuddly as if she was saying – “love me, I am not feeling so well”)

        The vet prescribed a radio-graph, from which he made out it was GI Stasis. He pointed out accumulation of food in the image. He prescribed the following medicines…but none of these medicines are rabbit-specific. They are mainly for dogs and cats. I keep reading how the physiology of rabbits is different from dogs and cats and I am quite worried if these medicines will not cure, but harm her.. 

         

        http://www.dogspot.in/ayurvet-livjivan-liver-tonic-drops-dog-30-ml/   (Liver tonic)

        http://www.moooou.com/shop-by-pet-dog-brands/intas/zymopet-30-ml.html  (Anti flatulence and Carminative drops )

        http://www.dogspot.in/himalaya-digyton-drops-dog-cat-100-ml/  (Digestive stimulant, Anti flatulent, Bowel regulator)

        I do see an increase in her appetite and activity levels..but its just been one dose of all the three medicines. I dont want to be happy right now because I am worried these medicines will act like a slow toxin. This vet is a senior vet of a very renowned animal rescue group called Friendicoes. He’s really good with dogs, cats and livestock animals…but only my experience can tell how good he is with rabbits.

        Please help me with this.


      • Stickerbunny
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          I cannot access those links, says 404 error, so I can’t see what meds they are. You could try contacting the House Rabbit Society, or a rabbit savvy vet via the phone and ask them. There is also a list of questions you can ask your vet on the HRS website, to make sure they are rabbit savvy.

          Not many medications are specifically for rabbits. Baytril is used in many animals, it’s just a generic antibiotic, for example. Simethicone, which is used for bunny gas issues, is a human baby medication. So, just because it’s not made specifically for a bunny doesn’t mean it’s not safe. But, if you aren’t sure if the vet is bun savvy, always best to get a second opinion, even if just a phone consult with a further away bunny vet.


          GI stasis will need medication though to fix, or it can be fatal, so if he’s getting better I wouldn’t skip the treatment…


        • jerseygirl
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            I could not access links either. I was able to get names of the meds out if the address though.

            Livjivan
            Zymopet
            Digyton

            All appear to be herbal type treatments. I’m not certain…

            If her X-rays showed her stomach is not bloated, then fluids will be useful in helping move the food. You can ask the vet to give subcutaneous fluids or keep syringing fluids to her at home.
            Typically, an antiemetic is given for gi stasis. Metaclopramide usually. Sometimes vets will also give pain meds and administer fluids.

            Its good she seems to be improving. Even the trip to and from the vet can help get the stomach moving again.

            Healing (((vibes))).


          • Brandywine
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              I would not be happy that the vet was treating my bunny’s life threatening condition with herbal products.


            • Bam
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                I suppose herbal treatments are common in India. It’s not common practice in my part of the world, so I really can’t tell you if it’s good or bad. Since you seem to have no choice and your bunny is getting better, I’d use these medications.

                Can you get simethicone (baby gas drops) in India? They’re rabbit safe and help against gas.

                As stickerbunny says, not many medicines are rabbit-specific. They very often get medicines for dogs, kittens or humans. I guess it’s because the market for bunny-specific products is too small for any farmaceutical company to see any profit in it. Lots and lots of medicines are tested on rabbits though before they go on to be tried on dogs, then finally on humans. (Sad but possibly beneficial to pet rabbits).


              • Sarita
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                  I would recommend lots of fluid and green veggies as well. Most rabbit safe medication is off market which means that it is not marketed or really formulated specifically for rabbits.

                  I think if those are working then continue them if they are herbal. But the metraclopramide also known as Reglan that Jersey mentioned is used all the time in rabbits to get their gut moving.


                • Avantika
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                    Raising a rabbit in a country which is not very rabbit savvy is a big challenge. Esp if you keep reading about their diseases and symptoms because you are not in blissful ignorance, yet do not have many options to treat.
                    I am continuing with these herbal tonics, but I dont want to take the rest…so I will bring Metraclopramide, Simethicone and Meloxicam. I am searching for the right dose for her weight ( 1.2 kg ) , but i may or may not find any content relating that. Since many of you administer medicines at home, give me an idea.

                    I will get the syrups, I am sure she wont have the tablets. Its a pain giving her these tonics..She is squirming so much, I dont know what will happen to her neck. I tried the burrito too, but she is one difficult bunny to give medicines too. She scratched my boob yesterday night It kind of bled.


                  • jerseygirl
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                      Yikes! Well at least when they’re being feisty you know they’re feeling better!
                      Is she toileting yet?

                      It sounds like the zymopet and digyton are for flatulence in cats/dogs. So possibly they work similar to simethicone? The other appears to be a liver tonic and that is not a bad idea either. In just not familiar with it or have any clue if rabbit safe. During stasis there is a risk of toxins building up fatty liver disease as a complication.
                      The enzymes in these products *may* be to assist breakdown of the mass??? Again? I’m not familiar with them but can sort if understand them being used.

                      During stasis, important factors are-
                      -Hydration -syringing fluids or giving subcutaneous fluids. Oral rehydration products can be helpful. I’ve used Lectade which is an animal formula but you can use human ones. Just try get simplest type, try avoid ones with artificial sugars. You basically want the mineral salts and glucose.
                      -Pain Management
                      -Maintaining body temperature
                      And of course, encouraging motility of the gi tract. Your bunny moving about will help in this.

                      Another thing to do is try syringe feed fibre. Only if there is no blockage**
                      You could try a home made formula using ground down hay (coffee or spice grinder), herbs or rabbit safe foliage. Things with tannins in them. The tannins bind to toxins and help remove them from body. And the fibre is good for motility. You can also use puréed apple or canned pumpkin.
                      If you have access raspberry leaves, these are supposed to be good for gut issues. Might even be worth getting raspberry leaf tea and seeing if your rabbit will eat it on its own. Even brew it and syringe feed. I think even rose leaves are useful in same way (??) I often try tempt them with rose leaves, petals and willow as I don’t have raspberry bushes.
                      Trying to increase the acid in the gut may also be worthwhile. Rabbits naturally have a more acidic gut then we do.

                      You can get vet to prescribe the metacloprimide and meloxicam?
                      The simethicone is non-prescription. Often found where you find baby products as commonly used for infant gas /colic.
                      **informative video on checking the tummy.

                      http://youtu.be/L0r5EtzSDUs

                      More here: http://www.mybunny.org/info/rabbit-care-seminars/rabbit-911/


                    • Avantika
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                        I am going to the chemist in an hour to get these medicines. I am hoping and assuming they dont require prescription. I read at a lot of sources, even here at Binky Bunny that GI Stasis is an indicator of an underlying infection. I called up the doctor and ranted a bit. He prescribed Zentel (Albendazole) for 3 days.

                        I came across this :-

                        Albendazole, used to treat infections in humans, has been reported to cause bone marrow suppression and liver failure in rabbits. Fenbendazole is, at present, the drug of choice as it has been shown to be effective in reducing clinical signs in an already established infection and to prevent it in exposed animals, when administered at 20mg/kg once daily for 28 days, coupled with frequent environmental disinfection.

                        But those side effects must be when the use is prolonged.

                        I am trying my best to help Moshu. I rely on Binky Bunny and web articles from HRS, personal blogs of rabbit parents for help. I successfully treated ear mites earlier from reading, I hope I will be able to treat Moshu this time as well. It aches to see her like this. I cannot concentrate on anything but this.

                        Please recommend me the right dosage for her for all the 3 medicine – Metraclopramide, Simethicone and Meloxicam. Her weight is 1.2 kg


                      • jerseygirl
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                          Apologies, i added to my reply above.

                          I can understand your stress!
                          Is she eating anything g or toileting at all??

                          Gi stasis can come on from many causes. It’s like their reaction to various things. Have you read this article before?
                          It explains better.
                          http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html

                          Albendazole / fenbendazole is rabbit safe and often prescribed for a 28 day course to treat E Cuniculi. Also for worming. If not seen it used for gi stasis alone.

                          I’m doubtful you will be able to get these other meds from a chemist.
                          It’s worth a try and I wish you luck!
                          You probably can get oral rehydration fluids and simethicone. Also Ranitidine (Zantac). It can also be used for stasis. 2-5mg/kg every 12-24hrs. Though its said to work on the lower gi tract where as metaclopromide is for upper tract.

                          I’m looking into other dosages.


                        • jerseygirl
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                            (Edited)
                            Alternative pain meds
                            -Buprenorphine
                            -Carprofen

                            http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Analgesics/safe_analgesics.htm

                            Metaclopromide 1-1.5mg/kg according to this:
                            http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.pdf


                          • jerseygirl
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                              I called up the doctor and ranted a bit.

                              Is there another vet you can go to for second opinion?
                              If Indian vets local to you do not have rabbit knowledge, try finding a UK or US vet practicing there. Perhaps they’ll have more knowledge due to different training.

                              Edit to add: I have added the link to video I mentioned in my second reply above.


                            • Avantika
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                                I have been through a list of almost all the vets in New Delhi and only two of them seem to be reliable in case of bunnies. One lives very, very far from my home, and the other is this one I am consulting. He has a great respect among doggy nd cat parents.

                                And yes, you were right. They did not give me those medicines without a prescription. Some of them are probably not very common here, like they use the variants. One of the chemists chucked me out without even listening to me, the other searched and the only thing he could find remotely close to what was in the list, he gave me : Magaldrate and Simethicone Oral Suspension USP <— I dont think its for rabbit consumption, though I brought it anyways but have not fed it to her yet. (I will do so only after confirming from users here and some web search)

                                Overall, I have very limited options. You guys are lucky that you are not short of options where you live. Its a helpless situation over here but I will do what I can for her. She licks me so much even when she I lift her in my arms and is terrified. She depends on me for her care.

                                Doctor gave Albendazole for 3 days and that is for de-worming. I suggested to him the possibility of some systemic infection. I dont know why but I feel it is E Cuniculi. Sometimes when she is laying flat on floor and tries to get up, her hind limbs sort of slip back and she drops flat on her stomach. (I mentioned weakness in hind limbs to the doctor)..I wonder if its an indicator of paralysis that happens in E Cuniculi infection. Read that somewhere. This used to happen fairly often last week, now it doesn’t happen.

                                With all those herbal tonics, her poop is normal. Appetite still low as compared to before, lethargy still present, and she still hides under the bed during odd hours. I lock the room where that bed is place where he hides, I feel horrible when she hides herself.

                                Tonight we will give her a dose of Albendazole. After the completion of 3 day course, I will update on this thread.

                                Thanks JerseyGirl, you are helping me so much. *bows down*


                              • jerseygirl
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                                  It is very good her poop is normal. If things are still moving through, what was in her stomach should make its way down. Then the appetite should return. Let us hope!

                                  Magaldrate and Simethicone Oral Suspension

                                  I had to look this up. It looks like what we call Mylanta in Australia. I’m sorry, I am clueless as to whether it would be useful for this or not.


                                • Brandywine
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                                    Sorry Avantika, I didn’t realise you were in SE Asia.

                                    It sounds like you are doing everything you can, and your bun is getting a bit better. If she’s had a nasty infection or stasis she will take a while to get back to normal. Good luck!


                                  • Avantika
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                                      Its confirmed that Moshu has an E.Cuniculi infection. Slight head tilt, urinary incontinence (I thought its her messed up litter habits in the wake of her adolescence and ataxia (hind limb weakness). Its not GI stasis alone because she is pooping normally. Its less sometimes but then thats also because she is eating less (which is a general outcome of feeling sick)

                                      I mentioned ALL the above symptoms to the vet, yet he could not identify. He gave me tonics for appetite stimulation, bowel movement and flatulence based on the x-ray reports. He gave Albendazole for 3 days, but he gave it with the intent of de-worming.

                                      Since I am 90 % sure its E.Cuniculi, I want to administer Albendazole for 28 days and not just 3 days. Vet prescribed a dose of 0.6 ml once a day for 3 days.
                                      If I am administering it for 28 days, what should the correct dose ? (should it be any less ? )

                                      In that case, should I just stop these herbal tonics ? Its a pain giving her these since she hates taking them. These are 4 tonics, twice a day, for 3 months. She jerks her neck back every time we are giving her the medicines, I am worried as hell she will injure it.

                                      Her urine is more yellow these days (could be because of the tonics) and she has a really bad habit of licking her urine ever since I have brought her. I tried discouraging it, I always keep a bowl filled with clean water (I change it 4-5 times a day) but thats something she never stops doing.

                                      These symptoms started 2 weeks back. She doesnt seem horribly ill like earlier, but still not recovered. She is 5 months old and was in good health earlier. Do rabbits generally survive E.Cuniculi infection if given the right treatment and love ?

                                      What else could I give her apart from Albendazoles ?


                                    • jerseygirl
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                                        It’s really common for rabbits to test positive for exposure to E.C. Not all develop symptoms of infection during their lifetime though.
                                        Some if the symptoms you describe certainly point toward EC infection.

                                        Happily for you, fenbendazole / albendazoles are usually readily available and often used for livestock.
                                        There are different strengths available. Which do you have access to?

                                        I treat my rabbit last year with Panacur 25 (fenbendazole) which was dosed as 2mls/kg. she was 1.6kg I think at the time.
                                        Fenbendazole dosage is 10-20mg/kg
                                        Albendazole is 10mg/kg.

                                        You can also give toltrazuril alongside fenbendazole.

                                        Anti inflammatory meds are important in treating EC also.

                                        If she eliminating better now and appetite is picking up, you could probably stop the tonics. Did any if those aid in inappetence or nausea?

                                        {{{Vibes}}} for Moshu

                                        Edit: Are you able to get Panacur?
                                        http://www.msd-animal-health.co.in/products/panacur_/020_product_details.aspx
                                        The 2.5% or 10% oral suspension.


                                      • jerseygirl
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                                          I recommend asking the advice of Dana Krempels PhD.
                                          I’m certain she has answered questions before for rabbit owners in your region of the world.

                                          http://www.allexperts.com/ep/703-35789/Rabbits/Dana-Krempels-Ph-D.htm


                                        • Avantika
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                                            I left my query on her page, mentioning each and every detail that she could take into account while making her diagnosis and treatment. Cross-cultural differences can be a barrier though. Half of the medicines people talk about in articles and at Binky Bunny are not even available where I live. Dana takes about 2-3 days to reply.

                                            The albendazole suspension I have has a concentration of 400 mg albendazole per 10 ml.

                                            Her appetite is fickle. Elimination is normal as per her consumption. Gut hypo motility is only because she is laying down too much and getting no activity. Hind limb weakness has increased.

                                            How much time it took for your bunny to completely recover ?


                                          • Avantika
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                                              UPDATE : She did a binky ! <3 I am so happy (just a few minutes back)


                                            • jerseygirl
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                                                That’s great! She must be feeling better. : )

                                                How much time it took for your bunny to completely recover ?

                                                Well my rabbit developed head tilt. It was never confirmed whether cause was E Cuniculi or inner ear infection so did treatment for both.
                                                From onset to recovery, it was a period of about 6 weeks. Most of the real improvement came after the 4 weeks of medicating. She had a bout of gi stasis at the beginning also. There is a lot of variation in timeframes and successful treatment.

                                                The albendazole suspension I have has a concentration of 400 mg albendazole per 10 ml.

                                                im less familiar with Albendazole but will ask some rabbit savvy people on your behalf. Hopefully Dr Krempels will give you an idea too. Were you aware she is not a vet? She is a biologist and rabbit rescuer. Very knowledgeable and helpful regarding rabbit health.
                                                My math figures that suspension is 40mg/ml. So you’d give 0.25mls for a 1.2kg rabbit. That would be a 10mg dose. But I am terrible at math!


                                              • jerseygirl
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                                                  Ugh…I’m feeling like a troll on this thread. Result of my insomnia!

                                                  I was wondering if the stasis and limb weakness you observed could be result of an injury? If she’d injured her spine or hind limbs, the resulting discomfort could certainly bring on gi stasis. This may be why you’ve seen improvement with her hind limbs as compared to a few weeks ago?


                                                • jerseygirl
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                                                    I’m coming across some worrying stuff regarding Albendazole. Can you find some Fenbendazole?


                                                  • Avantika
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                                                      I know…bone marrow failure and very low WBC, RBC and platelet counts.. About your suspicions regarding injury..the x-ray ruled out chances of injury..just in case it is an injury, it might be only external..In that case, why would urinary incontinence take place ? .__.

                                                      You can read Dana’s answer here : http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?m=6&catID=703&expID=35789&qID=4965285&nbsp; Like you, she too discouraged using Albendazole..even more ferociously.

                                                      I spoke to a vet pharmaceutical dealer today for Fenbendazole. He will let me know by tomorrow. We administered a dose of Albendazole last night..that was before your and Dana’s response came. I dont remember being so stressed about someone before this.

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                                                  Forum DIET & CARE Urgently need help on medication