in search of thoughtful opinions!

[manic_muncher]

(Apologies in advance for what I’m sure is going to be a huge, seemingly endless, stream of thoughts which will be edited and re-edited as I try to organize them.)

So for several months, my hubby and I have been going back and forth about getting a 2nd rabbit.  The reasons for and against are in constant battle with each other, and he and I are both in agreement with each time the subject is brought up… which is frequently.

OK.  So… reasons why getting a 2nd could be a good thing:

1. It’s another fluffy bum to love and rabbits are too freaking awesome.. duh. 

2. We really found how much we loved rabbits and want a large/giant breed.

3. Even though Bumpy loves the dogs, and me (apparently with all the licks I get) and seems happy, I wonder if he would be -happier- if he had a companion that spoke the same language and plays the same games.

4. With Bumpy occupied with a friend, Outlaw might feel less jealous about Bumpy and my relationship.

reasons why a 2nd could be a bad idea:

1. Limited space.

2. Two to two and a half hr drive to rabbit savvy vet

3. New rabbit teaching Bumpy undesirable habits (he does not chew, bite, or dig and finally in agreement with where the litterbox goes)

4. Bumpy may decide he doesn’t love me as much as before.

Bonding would be a challenge with limited space.  I do like the idea tanlover uses with “creating neutral space with an xpen, and would be the only way I could do this.  I realize I could get lucky, and they could bond relatively quickly, but I wouldn’t bank on that.  I would love to try bunny dates and adoption, first just bringing home a rabbit that is neutered is a huge plus.  I get to skip that expense, save a bunny, and save myself the worry about surgery.  But even going to a “nearby” shelter that have rabbits is a 3 hr drive minimum, and as I said, we want a large to giant breed and they are few and far between on the listings I’ve found.  I also don’t even want to think of the time/gas/travelling stress with Bumpy for a “maybe” chance that he’d pick out a friend and end up back home empty-handed.

After reading so many bonding threads, listening to tanlover’s advice to other’s, and her own warren as proof of the possibilities, I believe that I could get almost any rabbit to bond with Bumpy.  Furthermore, with the mindset that bonding is possible with any rabbits, with varying degrees of success over however much time it takes; to end up with the possibility of still having a difficult bond to create, makes me lean more to going to a Flemish breeder which is only an hour and a half away.

Trouble with that is, housing the second rabbit for upwards to 7 months before any bonding attempt could be made.  A completely separate space (8ftx6ft) could house this rabbit, but not permanently.  I use the space intermittently throughout the year, and would have to forego my usage of said room until after they were bonded.  I would be willing to sacrifice this area, if I could convince myself that the good would overshadow the bad.

Bumpy could be 24/7 free range, but I’m fairly certain that 2 rabbits would seek out trouble, so I am afraid of what that could turn into.  Rabbit-proofing around here is minimal, so yes, I could be proactive in things and prevent most mischief. 

I guess it mainly boils down to (at least at this point of this post)…

Would Bumpy be happier?  He is happy.  He hops around and follows the dogs and hops up in the chair beside me or, runs up and bumps me and sit by my feet and licks my legs.  He grooms me at least an hour throughout the day.  He loves head pets.  But sometimes (and I may be projecting my own emotions) he seems lonely.  Like the dogs ignore him almost always, and he’ll go bumping along and sit beside them.  Sometimes they get up and move away, leaving him sitting there.  He may flop over shortly after, or hop away and find something else to do… just sometimes I look at him sitting all alone and wonder what he’s thinking, or maybe he’s sad the dogs don’t groom him.

If I felt that he were as happy as he could be by leaving well enough alone, we’d stay a single-bun home.  Yes, I’d love another bun, but do the positives and negatives weigh more than the trouble it’s worth for a happy bun?  I hope that makes sense.

If you’ve managed to get this far, you must be bored out of your mind!    I’d appreciate any and all opinions!

[JackRabbit]

You make very good points for both sides. Personally, having a bonded pair and a singleton, I’d have to say my bonded pair are happier. They are never far apart, snuggle, groom each other, chase (playfully), insist on eating from the same hayfeeder at the same time, and even share a drink of water from the same bottle at the same time (even though they have plenty of options). Marlee and Moshi are just best buddies.

My singleton (we will try again to get her to be part of a trio) does seem lonely. We have tried bonding her with the M&Ms but she was the troublemaker.

You sound like you really want another bunny. While only you can make that decision, if you want one, can provide a good home for one (obviously you can and would), and can prepare yourself mentally and emotionally for the bonding process, I say go for it. The love of a bonded pair is amazing. My pair are not as demanding of my attention as my single bunny, but I think that’s more a personality thing — they aren’t lap bunnies like Kieko is. That may be one of the things you look for in a new bunny, one who is affectionate with you.

It sounds like the hard part is the vet. Is it that there are none near you or that you have one you prefer? Is there one you closer that you could go to just in case of emergency? Is it that different having Bumpy knowing that your vet is 2 hours away than it would be having Bumpy and another bunny and still having your vet two hours away? Are you sure there aren’t other rabbit savvy vets closer? You know where I live and we have 4 vet offices that are rabbit savvy, two of which are exotic specialists, and a 24 hr vet who regularly sees rabbits (they would be my nite/weekend/holiday only choice) — in an area with 1 breeder, 1 pet store that carries 2 bunnies at a time max, and no rabbit rescues (closest are hours away). Hopefully another vet will pop and give you some options on that front.

Didn’t mean to write a book, but you’re such a good bunny parent to Bumpy and it would be so nice for another bunny to be loved like that too!

[Deleted User]

Nope – not bored (ha ha haha….). I’m just gonna put MY thoughts out there for you, but keep in mind this is how “I” feel about my relationship with Henry, and I’m in no way against anyone else having more than one bun – just why I won’t or don’t think it’s necessary for us to get Henry his very own friend. Firstly how you describe Bumpy wanting to hang out with your Bandit and Outlaw is EXACTLY the same as Henry and my 3 dog’s. Henry would love to be groomed by them, and when he lays up against them, they get up and walk away too…..
But I love that Henry will interact with us when the dog’s ignore him. If he had a fulltime friend I’d worry that we may lose that opportunity altogether? And that’s the problem, you just don’t know…… Henry is naughty enough on his own, I wouldn’t worry about him getting into MORE mischief, just him teaching a new bunny HIS bad habits. For all my complaining, Henry IS perfectly toilet trained, I hate any excuse for that to go out the window. He is hard enough to clean up after and shop and prepare food for, I wouldn’t be up for doubling that (I’m guessing I’m more lazy than I thought???). And if they don’t bond, I definitely wouldn’t want to care and house 2 bunnies separately. When I catch Henry laying on his own, I assume he wants time out from everyone, cause he is free to lay anywhere in any room he wants, so when he lays in a room on his own, as lonely as he ‘looks’, I doubt that he is cause he chose to be away from us.
We got Henry as a 9 week old baby, and I’m sure he has forgotten he had bunny sibling’s and now doesn’t know any difference. If he saw another bunny I reckon he’d say ‘what’s that’? I don’t believe Henry remembers/knows any other world other than the one he lives in now – us human’s and his doggy friends.

In the next breath you said you want a HUGE bunny (I LOVE HUGE bunnies), so I think you should get one so I can love it tooooo! Ha ha ha ha!
But in all honesty, if you want another bun – go for it! But I’d do it for you and not cause you think Bumpy may benefit from having his very own friend. I’ve always adored you (not only for this reason – as you know) because your Bumpy and dog’s are so much like my Henry and dog’s.

PS – If we could only set up weekly play dates for Bumpy and Henry, lol!

[MoveDiagonally]

Hey MM!

Some things that stick out to me. I want to preface all this saying that if any of this comes off as negative I honestly do not intend any of it that way. Sometimes tone doesn’t translate.

I generally agree that most rabbits can be bonded but I also believe that in the case of really tough bonds it needs to be weighed against how much stress your willing to put yourself and your bunnies through. I have a bonded quintet and my toughest bond involved hours of fighting while I was bleeding from a bunny bite in near tears all on 4 hours of sleep. Everything worked out in the end, they’re all bonded now but at the time I was very close to giving up on the bond. Bonding can be very mentally and physically taxing. Of course not all bonds are hard. My first pair bonded pretty instantly. I believe in expecting the best, having a good attitude is really important, but preparing for the worst when it comes to bonding.

Space seems to be an issue for you currently. A Flemish needs A LOT of space. A full grown Flemish would need AT LEAST a full X-Pen and really two would be better. I housed a 10lb English Lop in a 4’X4′ pen and it still seemed too small. A Flemish is quite a bit bigger than my English Lops.

Litter habits can go out the window. I remember it taking a year for one member here to re-train their bunnies after bonding. I know TL is having some litter habit troubles with her group as well. On the converse side of that, my bunnies actually got tidier after being bonded. I think Penny (my OCD bunny) whipped them all into shape. Lol. The norm is probably somewhere in between.

Would he be happier? I don’t know. This is somewhat controversial. Some people think bunnies need to be bonded to be happy while others don’t. I think a bunny needs companionship from either a human or another bunny. I don’t think all bunnies need another bunny to be happy. That said, it is pretty neat to watch bonded bunnies together… And really watching my 5 play together is awesome.

In conclusion, I don’t think getting a second rabbit is a bad idea in your situation but I’m not sure if a Giant breed is the best choice with your space limitations. If you’re open to a variety of types of bunnies I would suggest going the foster to adopt route if it’s available to you. This would allow you to try out having two bunnies and attempt bonding before deciding if it fits into your lifestyle/home.

Sorry for the essay response!

[manic_muncher]

Yea, it’s the closest rabbit savvy vet, they are in Richmond. We’d actually have to take the very last exit off 64 before the long stretch to Charlottesville to get to it. And this is coming all the way from the Potomac River/Chesapeake Bay junction. We’re very rural, near Reedville. My other option is Fredericksburg or Virginia Beach. bleh. Closest Emergency Vet is in Richmond too, Carytown.

The reason why I even mention that on the list at all is, I found out -just- prior to getting Bumpy how far a ride would be to get to one (planning ahead for his neuter), I kinda took the “lets hope he never has any issues” stance. Though now that I’ve lived with him and learned so much more, I just know that 2 rabbits = twice the chance of something going wrong.

Let’s just say, since learning hollands are proned to dental issues, I am trying to be as preventative as I can be. Cut back pellets! Eat more hay! Grind those teeth down!

I have to say thanks for assuming I’m a good parent! I don’t know that I’d agree. I haven’t been forced to find out, thankfully. I grew up very poor, and we had pets. Never many at one time, and veterinary care was pretty basic. Vaccines, heartworm tabs, etc. My father felt animals should have a purpose, and is definitely one of those people who would have said, “it’s a $10 rabbit”…

Even though I’ve had a few rabbits in the past, I do not count those when I consider my experience with Bumpy. It was 30 yrs ago as a child, and another time 10 yrs later as a young adult. I did everything wrong (compared to what we all know now about house rabbits), and I can tell you right now, our bunnies were probably pretty damned depressed and I have seen sick bunnies and no one even considered taking anyone to the vet.

So now as an adult with the knowledge from working at a vet’s, I feel I’m pretty qualified in a lot of things most people aren’t. I’m willing to take the dog to the vet for -slightly- more than just basic care, but generally tend to pretty much anything else myself. Generally a trip to the vet starts off with me telling him what I think is going on, then him confirming my suspicions. So I’m not one to go to the vet very often at all. The reason for this is… honestly, the way I was raised. I don’t know what the cutoff would be, but there is a limit to what I would spend at a vet’s, no matter what the outcome looks like. Depending on the situation, even if it was 100% sure could be cured/healed 100%, if a vet told me it would cost $1,000 to fix, I would have to think very, very hard before I agreed to treatment.

But! If I had a sudden windfall, like a lottery win or publishers clearing house’s prize patrol at my door, the skies would be the limit to what I would do for their care and treatment.

sidenote: When we first got Bumpy, the hubby and I had agreed to disagree about whether the rabbit would ever see a vet. It took me weeks to convince him about neutering (thanks Andi and Henry!) and months after that he still affirmed if something tragic happened, like if he went into GI stasis, that Bumpy was crap outta luck. He loves him now, but I know an emergency = way more money, and I don’t know what Bumpy’s “limit” is in his mind, I’m sure it’s lower than mine, but probably not that far off.

I sometimes wonder if I am doing an injustice by not providing the most complete and cutting edge care available. But then I look at my babies and feel like they are loved and know they are loved, they have a home and have full bellies, and that’s a lot more than some animals have. bah, babbling today!

[JackRabbit]

I’ve read your posts, seen your pics of Bumpy’s living area, PM’d. You’re a good bunny parent.

Have you ever considered pet insurance? $11 a month, depending on your budget and household agreement, may be worth peace of mind. It is for me, but I don’t have the vet knowledge you have and I do tend to run to the vet fairly quickly. The $1000 vet bill turns into a $50 deductible. I can swallow that. Just a thought.

[manic_muncher]

Thanks for all the responses so far! Love you guys!

Andi – Yes! Exactly! I’m afraid he’ll wanna spend more time with a bunny and I would definitely miss this new bun he’s become. And just like Henry, I do not think Bumpy knows that he’s not a dog. I wonder if rabbits can see their own reflection in mirrors?

MD – Necessity of successful bond would have to be 100%, and I know that raises a HUGE red flag, because this is something that can’t be guaranteed. I can totally see your visual description as being myself… frustrated, needing to take breaks and time. I don’t really work, few online content article writing here and there, but that’s pretty much it. So I have LOTS of time. I’m fairly confident I would be able to successfully do it, especially with all the help from everyone here! As for space, yes this is the toughest to tackle, but also the most flexible (this is why I keep going back and forth about it all). In the last 10 months, I’ve used this room for 5 months, but if I needed to postpone my need to use the room again, it would only be a mild inconvenience, but absolutely doable.

What I was thinking would be to set the flemish up in this small room (42sqft), (which I think technically would be big enough to count as floor time?) but allow him 4 or 5 hrs of extended out time in the adjacent hallway (another 32sqft). Then after neuter+hormones dissipating, start introductions/stress bonding and setting up xpen blocked off by sheets, and vinegar/water clean to neutralize that zone. I may one day set that room up as a bunny room, but no plans immediately.

Once they were a pair, my plan would be to keep them free-roam, with only using the xpen-attached-to-dog-crate as an option for a place to hang out, or possible to contain them in case we needed to be sure they were’t underfoot.

But! Again, just weighing it… again. I’m sure it’s “I want another bunny”. But I honestly don’t want to go through all that ^^^ if he is happy with his humans and doesn’t care cuz he doesn’t remember what rabbits are anyway.

[JackRabbit]

FYI, I did a search and found exotics vets in Williamsburg, Toano, and Lanexa. Dont have any idea about reputations, but just in case of emergency. Maybe they are a little closer? I know it’s a hike (and nerve wracking with the traffic) just going from one side of Richmond all the way around to the west end much less all the way from the bay area.

Also, I know there’s a rabbit rescue your way (Va Beach, Tidewater?). I’ve tried looking on their website for available buns but they don’t seem to have much info on the web. Maybe you might have luck with them. I’ve also looked on Petfinder but I’m usually on my phone & it takes forever for it to load.

Good luck with your bunny decision!

[manic_muncher]

JackRabbit – Yea, I have gone back and forth on that. Before I couldn’t justify pet insurance because -I- didn’t even have it. I no longer have that excuse. Who do you use? I saw mention of carecredit (maybe?) before, but once I got to “call for rates” I just put it aside in my mind. This is probably something I should really do, the husband wouldn’t balk so much if he knew it wasn’t going to put us in debt.

I did slide in a comment to the hubby about me wanting to take Bumpy to the vet at least every 2 yrs for a wellness check. He didn’t argue with me, so that’s encouraging.

[Deleted User]

Don’t let anyone fool you manic – everyone has their limits regarding vet care (some, like me just don’t like to admit it on forum’s). For me it’s all $$$ and ‘pain’ related (I can’t stand anyone/thing suffering in pain). For example, George (dog) had an itch and rash that I used human antiseptic cream on first till it didn’t work and when I saw that she was in great distress tearing herself apart, off to the vet we went. We thought Sam (other dog, ha ha ha) was bitten by a bee when the side of her face swelled up, when the swelling didn’t go down 2 days later, off to the vet – burst eardrum! I was sick for weeks for letting her suffer for 2 days. Frank (you know Frank) went lame – the vet didn’t know what to do and wanted us to invest $1000’s on tests – we brought him home! After weeks of carrying him outside for toileting, etc., he eventually came good again and except for a twitch in his back leg you’d never know (and too think if we HAD the money we may have spent it?). You do what you CAN when and if you HAVE to.
Henry’s neuter? When I found out I didn’t HAVE to live with Henry’s spraying (there was a cure! YAY!) – I swear, I would have robbed a bank to pay for it if it wasn’t for the credit card. I know it wasn’t necessary (being a male), but it was ‘necessary’ for my sanity and our relationship.
My pets get by on being loved, treated and cared for and that will always be the most important criteria of pet ownership in our household. Vet care will always be available when distress or pain is evident, but if the cost is not affordable….. well, that decision is made at the time (after pain relief (if required) has been offered). I’m sure everyone has to live by a budget (I’ve always had too), so I’m sure we are all the same, just some of us don’t like having to admit it. I’m also big on Henry eating well to avoid future vet issues like his teeth – why I was SO worried when he wouldn’t eat hay.
Your an awesome mum manic – don’t let the concerns of vet care that may not ever be necessary (especially cause you know how to care for bunny’s better now, like I do) be the reason for not getting another bun. I (personally) don’t think Bumpy need’s a friend, but if YOU want another bunny, go for it! (especially if it’s HUGE! Ha ha ha ha ha……). Cheers manic.

[manic_muncher]

JackRabbit – Toano is -very slightly- closer, but foreign! Richmond is my hometown, so if I have to camp out, I have a few places I can flop. Also, my most trusted vet who I worked with did recommend Bumpy’s vet, so that kinda sealed the deal.

thanks for all the help!

[manic_muncher]

Thanks Andi, I appreciate your candor. I DO want another bunny haha. Maybe I’m trying to get you all to tell me it’s a great idea!

[Deleted User]

Bugga! I gotta be quicker with my replies – when I submitted the above, manic only replied once! ha ha ha haha ha……

[Deleted User]

It’s a GREAT idea manic!!!!! (just make sure it’s HUGE!) Lol……

[LBJ10]

I think everyone has raised excellent points. This is definitely not a decision to be made lightly. If you are really determined to get a 2nd bun and you have the time/space/money/etc, then get another bunny. If you have any doubts though, then I suggest holding off for a bit. You can always come back and reevaluate the situation later.

[Deleted User]

Henry telling Frank to ‘love me’!

[manic_muncher]

lolol!! yessss poor Henry, just wants some loving! Frank looks sooooo much like my long passed, Putter!

[JackRabbit]

I totally get knowing and trusting the vet! Maybe you even get a better price since you worked there too!

I got VPI insurance. I think they are the only ones who cover rabbits, at least in Virginia. RetroSquid and Ouisie’s issues with Link’s eye is what made me take the leap. I have claims to file but was afraid to file since I just got the insurance in March. I called them and asked about cancellation and claims history — they told me to file everything and not to worry about being cancelled that rabbit policies automatically renew every year.

[manic_muncher]

Thanks! I’ll definitely be looking into it. I briefly mentioned it to the hubby last night and he wasn’t against the idea!

[Sarita]

Good points made by all – enjoyed reading everyone’s opinions.

Very interesting thoughts on vet care and I’m with you (MM) and AndHenry on this. It always is a matter of money and a matter of pain and quality of life if there is something major to deal with. I think too that while house rabbit medicine is ever evolving, it just tends to be costly because vets who do see rabbits seem a bit more cautious with suggesting treatments so they seem to want to do a multitude of tests or x-rays and that definitely can up the vet bill. Luckily you have alot of knowledge about vet’s and tests and all that good stuff so you can definitely make a sound decision.

My rabbit Bobby has to go every 6 to 8 weeks to get a tooth trim – he has no lower left molars. It’s not cheap taking him in for those trims, but it’s a necessity. It would be very difficult though if I had to make a long drive to do this often – I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be able to swing this which would make me sad.

I have to say after having so many rabbits and now down to one rabbit, I’m so much happier just dealing with one – but that is just me. Bobby is very needy and he probably would love to have a friend – he used to hop into Bogie’s pen before I had to let Bogie go to the Bridge and they both seemed to get along just fine, but I’m not wanting to add any rabbits just because I’m old and tired :~)

I’ll be interested to see what you decide to do. I think you have been very thoughtful yourself and know your own limitations.

[Author]

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