Herbal Remedies to Reduce Testosterone in Male Rabbit?

[Dee]

Hi Everyone,

I haven’t been here in a long time- good to see some familiar names! I have two 6yr old rabbits, Nelli, female- BunBun, male- BOTH spayed/neutered since about 5 months old. They have been with me since 2008 and are free range house rabbits. About 2 years ago, Bun began going through phases when he would hump/chase/mount Nelli relentlessly, which he hadn’t done since 2 weeks after his neuter. These phases would last a month, then stop for several months. We took them both to the vet- nothing found. Last fall, it started up again, and this time did not stop. Bun also lost weight and became hyperactive. Very concerned, I took them to another vet, who gave them a more thorough exam. Still nothing obviously wrong with either bun. I was given the option of returning for bloodwork to check testosterone levels, or ultrasound to check for testicle remnants or adrenal tumours. I would be willing to get bloodwork, but the ultrasound is quite expensive and requires sedation. Then its very possible that nothing will be found.  Or a testicular remnant will show up, and I really dont want to put an otherwise healthy bun at this age through surgery. If Bun was sick,I would be much more open to medical intervention, but hes not sick- just obnoxious! Two months ago, he began spraying- on Nelli , who is a fuzzy lop and is very hard to clean- and all over my house, which now smells like pee. Due to the stress on Nelli, I keep them separated much of the time. Its obvious that for whatever reason, Bun has a testosterone imbalance. His behavior and even his body shape have become that of an intact buck. I want my sweet BunBun back- I feel awful for him and Nelli, and its so stressful keeping them apart in this little house.

I know that Lupron has been effective for bunnies with this problem, but to avoid the stress of.more vet visits and possible side effects of Lupron, I would like to try herbal remedies first- IF it is safe. I know that saw palmetto, black cohosh and spearmint are used to reduce testosterone in humans. Does anyone know about use if herbs with rabbits? At this point, I am just trying to get opinions and hea of any experiences. I found some info on herbal remedies for rabbits online, but nothing about this problem.

  I must add that I will definitely talk to our vet before trying anything- I’m very cautious with my bunnies, so no worries! Thanks for any advice .

Dee

[LongEaredLions]

Wow. That does really make me think that something was left when he was neutered. Home remedies of herbs certainly can’t hurt as long as the herbs are rabbit safe. I know I am not very helpful but “good luck” in getting this resolved soon.

[Dee]

Thanks, LongearedLions! I have been wondering if any other people have rabbits that have been only “partially. neutered” . My vet said it’s pretty easy to do with bunnies. And I was a very new rabbit parent that didn’t ask the vet performing the surgery if he did a lot of rabbit neuters… ugh, hindsight is always 20/20! 

[jerseygirl]

Hi Dee
Nice to hear from you!

Rumball also started these behaviours around age 6. Not as much as BunBun is affected though. The vet never gave me any answers.
So I’m very interested in what you’ve shared here.

ETA: wonder whether melatonin would help?
Also, does your vet think testosterone levels would be the only cause?

[Bam]

If there are testicular remnants it feel like kind of late onset if he started displaying hormonal behaviors 3,5 years after the neuter (if I’m doing the maths correctly). But I don’t know.

I think my Bam is showing hormonal behavior now, and he was neutered in january 2013. He was fine until the end of March 2014. Now he pees in the sofa again, digs frantically and he certainly is very, very aggressive whenever my other rabbit shows his little yellow face at the grated gate that divides my apt.

So I’m really very curious about this too.

[Bam]

If there are testicular remnants it feel like kind of late onset if he started displaying hormonal behaviors 3,5 years after the neuter (if I’m doing the maths correctly). But I don’t know.

I think my Bam is showing hormonal behavior now, and he was neutered in january 2013. He was fine until the end of March 2014. Now he pees in the sofa again, digs frantically and he certainly is very, very aggressive whenever my other rabbit shows his little yellow face at the grated gate that divides my apt.

So I’m really very curious about this too.

[Dee]

Hi Jersey Girl and Bam, thanks for your replies! I will definitely keep you posted on this- I thought it was extremely rare but after doing an internet search on rabbits + testosterone, I found a few more cases. Some people seem to feel Lupron is a good solution, while others think the side effects are too bad. That scares me because what if Bun felt awful but was unable tto let me know? He would probably show it in his behavior, but the shot is monthly so the effects woukd last a while. Im getting fairly desparate though! I might try black cohosh this weekend, I finally found info on safety with rabbits and therapeutic dose and figured out a dosage for Bun.

Jerseygirl, its interesting that you mentioned melatonin! I was thinking last night after reading that ferrets get some adrenal disorders from exposure to artficial light. And I have been keeping the lights on all night for about a year now,.as I’m a light sleeper and like to read at all hours. Hmm. Do you know what the proper melatonin dose for a 4lb bunny would be?

My vet should be calling me on Monday. He’s awesome, had researched a lot before meeting with me for the 1st time. Now that Bun is spraying too, our hopes of this being behavioral are shot. We’ll see what he says the next step will be!

[jerseygirl]

Jerseygirl, its interesting that you mentioned melatonin! I was thinking last night after reading that ferrets get some adrenal disorders from exposure to artficial light. And I have been keeping the lights on all night for about a year now,.as I’m a light sleeper and like to read at all hours. Hmm. Do you know what the proper melatonin dose for a 4lb bunny would be?

Apologies for the late reply. I hadn’t realized you’d posted again. I’m sorry, I don’t know anything about doses for melatonin or even if its advised. It was just a thought I put “out there” but haven’t researched.
There’s seems to be lots of pros and cons with its use for humans. Isn’t that the way with everything though?! *sigh* it’s hard to determine which way to go sometimes.

It’s great your vet is looking into options! It makes it a bit easier to trial things when you have your vets support.

Again, I’ll watch this thread with interest.

[Dee]

Well, now it’s my turn to apologize for the late reply!

Thank you, Jerseygirl, for mentioning melatonin. I did some research and found that most sources said that the beneficial dose was 1mg. Being cautious, I have been giving BunBun about .40 mg. He’s a little guy, only about 4lbs, and I’d rather up the dose slowly than see ill effects from starting too high.
I am very interested in black cohosh, but I read that the minimum lethal dose is >6mg/kg daily for 30 days,or >70mg/kg in one dose. That’s a very low threshold, especially since I only have 540mg capsules. There is no way to measure that accurately. Also there are a couple different forms, so this requires more research. There is a special herbal product that is sold for dogs and horses,not sure about cats. It says it balances adrenal and reproductive hormones. Now I need to find out if it’s good for rabbits. I emailed my vet, but he didn’t get back to me . Maybe he disapproves of herbal remedies,many medical doctors do.
So for now, I can take Bun to Tufts and get blood work done, see what his testosterone levels are. If they are high, they would either want to do am ultrasound or just put Bun on Lupron- which carries the risk of bone disease and other side effects.
Or I can continue to keep him and Nelli separate, and look into herbal solutions. The bunnies are fairly content without each other, but I know they must get lonely. It’s sad because they were such a happy couple, aside from Nellis aversion to grooming Bun. I put them together daily for supervised time. Bun is getting somewhat less aggressive, but he still sprays immediately upon getting close to Nelli. He smells so strongly, out fills the whole room. Unfortunately, we have a very small house. The only rooms for the bunnies are the kitchen,living room and hallway. If I had a room that I could set aside for bunnies,I wouldn’t mind the spraying, but it’s pretty gross in the living areas.
So…sorry for the long post, a many of us know it’s impossible for me to write a short post lol. I will continue to keep you all posted. So far though, the melatonin may be helping because Bun is very calm when Nell is in the other room, and less persistent in his advances when they’re together.
Thanks for reading!
Dee

[jerseygirl]

Do you think higher estrogen levels could cause the behaviours too? (It’s making me wonder about plant estrogens.)

I found a dosage for melatonin after also, but was reluctant to post it as I couldn’t see it in full context. It was a disjointed paragraph from a google search.
I don’t know what the dosage was in aid of but it was “Melatonin 1–2 mg PO sid” (textbook of rabbit medicine).

If you’re going to go the blood test route, would you do so before supplements?

[Dee]

So sorry for the very long delay in updating you all! Seems there’s just too much to do these days, or maybe I’m just becoming less efficient.

Jerseygirl, that’s a very interesting thought on higher estrogen levels! I don’t know much about plant estrogens, but I’ll research it now. And I think that I will stay with the supplements for a while before putting Bun through bloodwork. It’s a hard decision to make, whether to pursue answers through stressful tests or just let him be.He is healthy and happy in every other respect, so it seems kind of optional.

  He has actually improved a bit with Nelli- he’s able to spend time with her without harassing or spraying her. So that helps sway my decision to leave well enough alone. I’m giving him 1/4 mg of melatonin at night, and feeding him.a few spearmint leaves with his greens . Spearmint is supposed to lower testosterone in humans . I’m not sure if this is helping or not.

  So that’s about all for now- I will definitely update if anything else happens.

Ghanks for all the input and listening to me!

[LongEaredLions]

Glad you have found something that works (at least somewhat)! Keep us updated if you find anything else.

[Author]

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