Need opinions on if there is any hope for this bond

[Linette]

First a bit of backstory.

 I have a neutered male, neutered for a year, he’s 18 months old. He has full run of the house minus bedrooms. Very affenctionate. We thought it might be a good idea to get him a buddy in case I get a job and for weekends when we go away. Two weeks ago adopted a female from a rescue.

I had reservations about her at the rescue, and how she behaved towards him. There was another bun that he had started grooming immediately and who groomed him immediately. We wanted her, but after he met three other females they brought her back in and there was a little scuffle, so they immediately said no, it wouldn’t work, we couldn’t have her. They brought in another female we had not been interested in. By this time my boy was rather traumatized, the two females in between had both attacked him, he’s had a four + hour ride to the rescue center and he was in a corner panting. This last female was put in, she stamped in his face, laid on his head and groomed him. He didn’t move or respond. The rescue people announced it a match!

I had reservations, but they were sure it was a great match AND, made it clear it was this rabbit or no rabbit, that they had a great deal of experience and it would be great. We had invested a lot of time and money in the trip there, it involved an overnight stay etc, and so I decided to try it out.

 We can return her within 30 days with no problem but after 30 days there would be a $250 fee if we bring her back (it’s in the contract), so we are halfway through that time, and basically I can’t leave them alone at all (not even in neutral territory) She is very dominant, has never groomed him since that time at the rescue. If I have my hand on each of them petting and talking to them, they will sit nose to nose. He will get up and groom her. She will let him groom her for a minute or two then gets up, stamps in his face, gives and aggressive grunt and goes away from him. She will attack him  if I am not petting her.

 He seems interested in a friend, and will eat with her there, or lay down, but she will not eat with him present and doesn’t come to him for attention at all, though she WILL come to me to be pet.

 

This morning I let them interact with me right there, but not with my hands on them and there was a knock down drag out that I could barely separate. They’ve had a few scuffles before but when I said “no no no” he backed down and I was able to get them apart, this morning they were out for blood.

So I am in the position of having to decide if this looks promising or not. Since I will have to do another over night stay in the city, plus gas/food costs etc, and making reservations if we must take her back. I feel I cannot reasonably afford to pay the $250 if we return her after the 30 days. We have already invested money in the extra equipment, carriers etc as well.

 I know it takes time for a bond, but I have read several bonding threads here and on other rabbit forums and it seems that by this time things should be better than they are. I do have the time/money issue hanging over my head, which is an added stress for me.

 My gut tells me, from my years of rabbit experience, that this girl would be very happy in a home where she ruled the roost, either with a very submissive rabbit, or just with people who were happy to let her have her way. She likes people.

 Even with neutral territory, any space she is in is HER space (she pulls that with me as well) and rather than getting less so with her time settling in here, she gets more possessive. She was fine with me doing things in her pen when she first got here, now I have to remove her when I clean etc or she lunges at me.

Any opinions? This weekend would be the best opportunity for us to take her back before the 30 days, they are only open on Sat. so we have some restrictions to work with.

 I’d like for this to work out, but the last two bunny dates got very very ugly. I’ve read some things that say to separate them for a few days and start from scratch, but I don’t have a lot of time. It seems that by now they shouldn’t need me between them all the time to keep from fighting.

 

 

 

[BunnyLady1989]

Oh man. I personally do not have experience in bonding but maybe this can get bumped up and some of the experienced bunny bonding parents will see this. I think TanLover and LongEaredLions may have some good insight for you. Good luck! I hope something works out for you and your boy

[Sindri]

Hi this sounds like a stressful situation. I am not a bonding expert. I have two rabbits I have tried bonding and it just didn’t work out. Bonding issues aside it sounds like to me that this rabbit is not a good match for you or your bunny or her. I personally would take her back. It may sound bad to tell you to take her back but she would probably be better suited for a single rabbit home with her territorial issues. I think perhaps trying a different rescue if you can find one would be best. I wish I had some great advice that would solve your issues. I wish you luck and look forward to hearing what happends.

[Linette]

My gut tells me to take her back.

I sent an email today and I received one back saying they are going to have her caretaker contact me to talk with me about working with her. But I don’t see talk solving this!

Perhaps it would have gone better had we had a better experience with the rescue and AT the rescue? It’s hard to keep one’s emotions entirely out of things. It’s hard when the rabbit we all liked who seemed to like him was denied us and then we get home and things go off so poorly with the one they assigned us.

All my friends and family say take her back, but I’ve come across a few rabbit people “online” who said it would be horrible and selfish of me to take her back.

I feel like crap.

[Deleted User]

It’s hard when things don’t work out but it’s smart to realize this early on and to be able to do something about it. This current situation is not fair to EITHER bun, or you. It’s NOT cruel to take her back and choose another girl. It would be cruel to try to force something that’s stressing everyone out. Realize: she’s extremely stressed, too, and that’s why she’s being more territorial. She feels her situation is out of control and she’s lashing out in fear. I’d love to hear what some experts think, but I believe this is a bad match. Do what’s right for both kids and your family. Good luck!

[Linette]

Thanks.

 She’s a nice rabbit with people and I think would make a great house rabbit for someone with no other rabbits. She settled in quickly and comes when I call or whistle and likes to be pet. But she is not cool with another rabbit!

 When we were at the rescue, even though they had repeatedly stressed that size doesn’t matter, they then said they didn’t feel comfortable giving us a smaller breed female because our rabbit is 10 lbs and might hump her. So it was this bunny or no bunny, so I don’t think they will be willing to try with another.

 We were so excited about all this and are very sad it’s been such a rough experience. I’ve talked to some people who said they spent months bonding rabbits that fought and one even spent an entire YEAR! but I don’t see the good in forcing animals that don’t like each other to fight for weeks or months. Especially when many others said it took days or a week to get good results.

 and if we don’t return her within 30 days there is a $250 fee, and with the money we’ve already put into pens, carriers, travel and hotel expenses I can’t take another hit like that

 

[Sindri]

I am sorry you are going threw this. Its odd that they wouldn’t let you take the rabbit home that your rabbit liked. Yes I agree she may be best suited for a family that wants only one rabbit and you should let them know that is how you feel. I understand how you feel about what you have heard about bonding. I did not enjoy the bonding process myself. I was not successful. I tried so many tricks and I took breaks but it didn’t help. I didn’t get my second rabbit through a shelter so taking the second rabbit back wasn’t an option. I do love my second rabbit I knew that they may not bond so I had planned for that to possibly happen. Mine live separately in bunny rooms and exchange free range time. Both seem very happy. I think you need to go with your gut on this. Don’t let people guilt you into keeping a rabbit you aren’t completely happy with. Its ultimately what makes you happy. Maybe you should also take some more time out and decide if getting another rabbit is what you want to do. I have read so much about bonding I rarely have read that people find a perfect love and first sight match so there will probably be issues no matter what rabbit you get to choose. Again I wish you the best of luck and let us know how things progress.

[Linette]

I actually had reservations about getting a second rabbit. Our boy is to us, like dogs are to most people. he’s totally free with us, comes when we call or whistle, we actually don’t have a couch or coffee table so we have a big space to get on the floor and play with him. But he is so affectionate I worried he would be lonely if I get a job or we leave for a weekend.

I read house rabbit sites and they are very encouraging that nearly every rabbit should have a buddy, so after a lot of reading and thought we took the plunge. But truly, he might be happiest just the way we are. He and I are extremely close, but I will say this, he has not shown any jealousy of her. he hadn’t reacted to her scent on me, or gotten angry that I spend time with her or pet her. I guess he knows his place is secure!

I don’t know if we will try again or not. He actually seemed to like the idea of a buddy, but clearly she feels otherwise, and I am not sure I can take the stress again, at least not any time soon.

[Zombie-Sue]

Take her back and don’t feel bad about it.

I kind of get the feeling you were never really onboard here. Rabbit bonding is definitely not something you can do half way, and you have to be able to watch them scuffle a little.

You tried it, it was a neat experiment in which your goal was to make his life happier, it didn’t work out. You don’t have anything to feel bad about.

[Linette]

Thanks for that. I really do feel crap over this. We went in with the best intentions and highest hopes.

My boyfriend admitted last night at dinner that he’s felt “Big Brother” watching all week as well after having seen them at the rescue center and their expectations.

On looking back over the week I realize that when we were all together during the dates, she was coming to ME for snuggles, and I happened to be right near him. She does like people, and I think if the rescue would bring her to more adoption days she would find a home. Due to her size (she’s a standard rex, by no means huge) they have only brought her to one other, hence her being in foster care over one year. I hope they give her more of a chance. She’s quite the snuggle bunny when one gets down on the floor with her.

We’ve made the reservations at the hotel etc and I let the rescue know we will be returning her. They said someone would call me yesterday with tips (her previous caretaker) but no one ever called. I will try one more date this morning, and see if there is any hope. I still have until tomorrow to cancel the hotel if I must.

Like you say, a well meaning experiment. And truly no harm done. Both rabbits are unscathed.

[Elrohwen]

First, I will say that two weeks isn’t very long. Even for a relatively quick bond, after two weeks most pairs aren’t at the point where you can leave them alone.

Second, I will say that if you really don’t think it’s working, take her back. Humping and small scuffles are normal, but going for blood isn’t. It’s hard to say which it is from your description (mild scuffles can be loud and scary looking), but that’s something you have to decide. Full on knock out drag out fights can be nearly impossible to reverse.

No matter what you decide, I can’t fault it. That’s a tough decision especially since you’re forced into a time crunch. I hope you’re able to find a bunny who is a better fit and I hope she is able to find a home of her own. If you haven’t tried your last session yet, I would do a stress bonding. Put them in the car together, or in a laundry basket and shake it around a bit. This calms both of them down for a bit and might let you get some positive time in.

My girl sounds similar to the girl you adopted. She wasn’t aggressive with my boy, but she was humpy and pushy and obnoxious. I would put them in the laundry basket and shake them around every time she got a little crazy, then set them back in the bathtub or other neutral area. Over time she got less obnoxious and they were bonded in about 6 weeks.

[Linette]

I spoke with the woman who had been caretaking the rabbit and she says she is quite a Queen! so my assessment of her personality is spot on.

Well, thing is that we aren’t supposed to allow even scuffles…seriously, the women there during the adoption session were hyper about any sign of a scuffle. So while I know it’s normal….the thing is she is THEIR property and if I let anything happen to her…I’m in big trouble. Well $250 and reported to animal control for abuse.

The fight yesterday was a real knock down drag out, not a scuffle. I’ve been keeping rabbits for decades and these two meant business. And they are large breed bunnies, so they can do a lot of damage, even the little one’s can, but two ten pounders of furry fury….watch out!

The woman who kept her told me she had another rabbit like this one and it took her a YEAR to bond with her male. I am not the woman for that type of a responsibility.

My boyfriend and I are talking about it and think maybe we should leave things as they are and let him be a bachelor. Because honestly I dont’ know if I can tell what a promising match would be or not. The one we thought looked great they called foul on, so maybe I just dont know what I’m doing.

[Deleted User]

I would try another rescue, these people don’t sound very nice, and they seem like they just want to move their buns without really caring about anything else. I’d give the sweet girl a kiss good luck and tell those people your not happy with the way they handled it. But don’t give up, there could be a special lady out there for your boy someday!

[Elrohwen]

Yeah, honestly it just doesn’t sound like the best rescue. I’m sure they mean well, but I don’t like how they would make you pay them to take the bun back if she wasn’t working out. Every rescue I know would take the bun back no questions if the bond wasn’t working, and would try to find you a better match.

And you may have been right about the other bun that you wanted. When my pair met there was some humping and scuffling, but it worked out in the end and didn’t take forever either. It’s normal for that type of stuff to happen, so it seems strange that they would completely dismiss a possible match because of it.

I couldn’t deal with a year of bonding either! 6 weeks was hard enough and I was unemployed so I had plenty of time.

[calipa_st]

I don’t get the 30 day thing, is it a HRS? I think 30 days is “nothing* in bunny world. My first rabbit clicked with us right away, Rodan we got think january 29th, it took until March for him to start coming to me (he huddles in his cage sometimes, but finally realizes we are here to feed and pet him so he’s loosened up a lot) and Calvin we got on March 1st and he’s just now letting me pet him (sometimes) and eating normally.

I think it sounds like you had to fall in love with her as well, but when it comes to choosing a bonding mate…it’s not going to be up to you. BUT, it sounds like your rabbit is not on board either. And, if you do not want unbonded rabbits, then definitely take her back.
I have three unbonded males, and it is seriously draining. Lucky now can open the bedroom door and got his face ripped up again, he already needed stitches! and rodan and calvin are next door to each other in an ex pen but they fight viciously when I try to bond in the tub or neutral territory.

If you want to bond, find one that your rabbit likes. And if not, then if you want a second be prepared to keep them completely separate. It’s difficult, but doable.

[calipa_st]

They’d report you for abuse for rabbits fighting during a bonding session?? Who do these people think they are?! it’s like they know nothing about rabbits… When I took mine to the vet for a lip bite, they said they see it often. Rabbits go for faces, genitals and the back…and when I posted on the HRS FB page, no one judged…a lot could commiserate!

[Linette]

I don’t think they are at all associated with HRS.

That first gal liked him, and he liked her and we liked her…I nearly can’t figure out how we ended up with this gal! AND when I spoke with her caretaker yesterday, she didn’t seem at all surprised it wasn’t working out. That bunny is not the sort she thinks would bond easily, said she had another with a similar personality and the bond took a YEAR! She also told me she NEVER used that method to bond rabbits and that she lets her buns run in the garden…when I had to sign a contract saying I never would, and agree to their bonding methods?

They want me to try with some other females this weekend, but the carrier, pen etc etc all will smell like her. And with females being territorial, it doesn’t seem a good way to start things off.

Boyfriend and I aren’t keen to sign another contract with them….so not sure what we will do. There is one other rescue in that city and after reading all their stuff over and looking at their site I got such a vibe from them I didn’t even go any further. The other rabbit rescue in the state is over 6 hours away, so that’s not happening.

I truly don’t know WHAT this rescue expects as far as rabbit behavior, but they got very concerned when he humped their females and said “no way” when there was that scuffle, then comforted the female as if she’d been attacked by rabid dogs. Perhaps it’s love at first sight or nothing?

I will be glad when this is over.

[Deleted User]

Wow, doesn’t sound like u have any good rescues where u are. That’s awful! That place u got the girl from sounds like it’s full of morons. I wouldn’t deal with them again. What state are u in that a good rescue is so far???

[Linette]

I am in AZ and large cities are rather far between and I don’t live near any major ones.

It’s not a bad rescue, as far as the buns go they take very good care and are clearly careful about screening the owners. But yes, the contract feels a bit daunting. And the particular people we saw that day certainly handled things oddly. But I would hate to make it seem they are horrible or steer anyone from adopting a bunny looking for a home.

It seems that the Humane Society in that city does do rabbits, but they have few (I assume most end up in one of the two rescues). I spoke with them yesterday and the first off thing the woman said is that rabbits are extremely territorial and I should think long and hard about trying a bond because they are likely to fight.

I thought, oh dear, don’t I know it!

A friend said I should get a kitten, they can be company, but are less likely to fight.

We won’t but I can see her point.

[Beka27]

I know this is resolved, but I just want to consent on the 30 days time frame. It’s ridiculous to expect that a pair of rabbits will fully bond within a month. It’s true that some do, but this is in no way the norm. Bonding sessions need to be approached cautiously and you need to be in each “stage” for a bit before moving on. I would encourage you to maybe discuss this with the rescue to see if they’d be willing to change their policy for other adopters in the future. Or maybe they’d be willing to implement a trial foster period (think of it as a “rent-to-own” for the bunny). A reputable rescue will take back an animal if it does not work out, whether it’s been a week or a year. I haven’t heard of such a hefty surrender fee being required when the rabbit was rescued FROM them…

[Linette]

It’s not a “rent to own” situation with them, we would NEVER own the rabbit. We would pay a fee then sort of foster it (that’s not the wording they use, but basically it is what it boils down to) and I agree that the $250 damage fee is an odd thing. But this rescue has been doing this a long time and have rehomed close to 1300 rabbits since they began so it’s not my place to tell them their business.

 What I have learned over the past few months, and reading on perhaps dozens of rabbit sites is that each group has their strong opinions on things. And it seems that the buns do pretty well in a vast variety of situations and ideologies. A safe home, good food, access to health care and kind keepers…the rest is up for grabs.

Basically I will be cheered by someone and damned by someone else no matter what I do, or don’t do. That doesn’t matter, it’s just been interesting. The bunny’s well being matters. So far, no harm, no foul. All are safe and well cared for, and I have learned a LOT.

 I really appreciate the thought and time people have shared with me, it’s been very helpful.

[HenryMouse]

Oh my! That rescue sounds ridiculous. The shelter I volunteer at is seriously wonderful about bonding and letting people have indefinite trial bonds. Sorry that you had such a bad experience. They sound like they don’t know what they’re doing and they should have let you have the rabbit you originally wanted. To charge you for returning a rabbit is insane. I don’t have much advice to give but I hope everything works out well for you!

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