Pip and Dobby

[Dobby]

Pip and Dobby have just finished their second bonding session.  The first one (in neutral territory) did not go so well.  Pip was trying to hump a lot and Dobby was responding by trying to bite Pip whenever he got near.  I was able to end it on a relatively good note, as they both settled down when I pet them and was able to give them each a treat before separating them.

Tonight I put them in the grocery cart I have – no car or laundry in my city dwelling and I think people probably wouldn’t want to find two bunnies sitting on top of a washing machine in the laundry room.  I figured the grocery cart was plenty big for the two of them, and neutral, but was easily moved around if I needed to break up any fights or stress them out.  Pip didn’t try to hump again but Dobby was still very defensive and tried to bite when Pip approached him.  I started pushing the grocery cart around when this happened and that disoriented them enough to stop the scuffle.  When I stopped moving it around they were both very still.  Then, after a few minutes, Pip approached Dobby again, I think to try to be groomed and Dobby snapped back. I separated them (but still inside the cart) and they calmed down while I pet them.

After that, Pip (not injured) was very still, in the meatloaf with his ears back.  Dobby was sitting, looking at Pip.  He started grooming himself, which I thought was very odd, given the tension.  After a little while of this, I decided to end it before anything else happened and I gave them both a small piece of apple but neither one of them ate it.  Once I got took them out and gave them the treats, though, they eagerly ate them.

The whole thing probably lasted about 15 minutes.

 I’m thinking of just trying the same thing tomorrow, but maybe starting by taking them for a “walk” in the grocery cart, so they are a little disoriented from the start.  Does this sound like a good idea to the bonding experts out there?

[MoveDiagonally]

What a neat idea! I think it sounds fine. I did something similar with a laundry basket when my bunnies were fighting in the early stages of bonding.

[Dobby]

Day 3

I think we made some progress tonight, but I’m not entirely sure.  I used the grocery cart again.

Dobby started off by snapping at Pip, so I walked them around the living room to get that stopped or banged some pans together.  Dobby seemed to pick up pretty quickly that biting resulted in something unpleasant happening and mostly stopped.

A little later Pip decided he wanted to try to assert his dominance…

 .

After a few seconds I would push Pip off.  He would almost immediately flop when I would do this.  I thought this was odd.

 

After this happened, we seemed to have a bit of a stand off with Pip trying to get around Dobby to hump him again and Dobby pushing back to not let him by. 

 

We ended with them sitting next to each other.  There was no humping or biting, but they weren’t happy either.  Neither one of them was interested in their treat until they were back in their own areas.

[Dobby]

Day 4

We’ve made progress today. They had two sessions, both in the cart, and both on the longish side. The first one had some rough moments with Dobby snapping and Pip climbing all over Dobby. But we had two breakthroughs. I think Dobby accidentally groomed Pip while he was grooming himself. Then Pip decided to groom Dobby without even being asked. After that I ended the morning session.

Tonight we had another session that I think went pretty well. Dobby snapped only once. Pip was still trying to hump but was spending more time grooming Dobby. Dobby’s forehead was wet by the end of it! Unfortunately, Dobby would not make any attempt to groom Pip, even though Pip asked repeatedly. I even tried some apple baby food on his forehead. I did give them some hay which they both munched on at different points during the session.

I’m not sure what to make of one main thing from tonight. Dobby really didn’t engage with Pip much at all. He basically just sat there and let Pip groom him (slightly aggressively) or he ignored Pip’s requests for grooming. He ate some hay. He moved every once in a while when Pip tried to hump him, but that was really it. I think Pip was getting frustrated because, after trying to engage with Dobby and getting nothing, he would thump. (He’s quite the thumper in general.)

On a good note, they both took treats from me before they were separated. That’s definitely an improvement!

I’m thinking of trying a slightly larger space tomorrow to see if that changes anything.

[Dobby]

I think bonding is on hold for a week or two. Pip didn’t really show any signs of hormone related behavior before or after his neuter when on his own or with me, so the vet and I thought he’d be fine with bonding. But when he is with Dobby he is the energizer bunny and is either trying to hump or aggressively groom Dobby. He occasionally demands grooms but gives up pretty quickly and goes back to his other activities. On the few occasions Pip has gotten bored with Dobby or distracted by hay, the second Dobby moves, Pip is right back either in his face or his other end. I think Dobby is getting more and more upset, to the point of eating less.

I’m going to try again in about a week and a half. I’ll keep doing the pre-bonding stuff in the meantime. Hopefully Pip will have relaxed a bit by then.

[Dobby]

I’ve put them back together and we have made a lot of progress. Pip’s humping has decreased a great deal. Right now I’m dealing with Dobby humping more than Pip. I think Dobby may have realized that Pip is here to stay and now things he needs to assert his authority. 🙂 There has also been no snapping or biting at all. And there has been grooming on both sides. As I type, they are laying right next to each other, although I’m pretty sure Dobby is leaning into Pip in the hopes of getting groomed. We’ve also moved into the area that will eventually be their permanent space. Fingers crossed things continue to go progress smoothly.

I do have one question. When Dobby grooms Pip it sometimes seems like he is almost nibbling Pip. Every once in awhile Pip will pull back suddenly while being groomed and I think this is why. Is this normal? Will Dobby figure out how to be a bit gentler based on Pip’s reaction?

[Irina]

When I bindery two, Tofu did the same thing to Butterscotch when they were first in their permanent home. It almost seemed like he was nibbling, trying to get at something. Butterscotch would kind of jump back quickly, and then it would be over. There was no chasing or grunting etc. It only seemed to happen for the first few days and then I didn’t see it anymore. They settled into cuddling, flopping and grooming each other. It didn’t seem to interfere with their bonding at all.

It sounds like they are doing really well! Congratulations! I love a pile of lounging bunnies!

[MoveDiagonally]

I’m so used to seeing my big dopey rabbits Dobby and Pip look so little and cute O.O

I’m glad things are going well! I wouldn’t worry about the grooming/nibbles. As Irina said, they will figure it all out as they get closer and bonding progresses.

[Dobby]

Thanks for the confirmation on the grooming/nibbling. I feel much better about it now.

They’ve been together all day today and things are going pretty well. I do have one or two concerns…

I’m seeing a lot more cecals around their area then I’ve seen before. In the past, I’d rarely see them from Dobby but would occasionally see them from Pip. I’m pretty sure the ones I’m seeing now are from Pip. I have three theories as to why I’m seeing more:

1. Stress
2. He’s definitely the faster eater of the two and is getting more than his fair share of pellets and salad. He is also less of a fan of hay than Dobby so this is dropping his hay intake. (I’m spreading the pellets out into two servings and put the most recent serving in a treat ball to slow down the rate of intake.)
3. He’s getting interrupted by Dobby and not always eating them.

Do any of these theories seem more likely than the others? Should I just give it time to see if his system settles or is there something else I could do?

Another food related concern is that Dobby is just eating less in general. Food has never been a priority for him and I think he is too interested in what Pip is doing to focus on the food I’ve given him. He’s still eating hay and pooping, so it’s not an emergency situation. More like something I’m keeping an eye on.

Finally, when Dobby is humping Pip (or vice versa) should I only intervene when Pip seems upset by it? Sometimes Pip seems like he doesn’t care at all and other times he seems annoyed. It was a lot easier to intervene when they were in a really small space and only together for a short time. I also don’t want to intervene if it’s something they just need to work out for themselves.

Thanks for everyone’s help with this process. It’s been interesting, to say the least.

[Irina]

Sounds like it is all going pretty well. I will let MD or others who know more respond to most of your questions- I just wanted to comment that Butterscotch also seemed to eat less food after first being bonded with Tofu. He are so little in fact, that I gave him his own pellet and salad bowl. It seemed to even out within 3-4 days though!

Positive bonding vibes for Dobby and Pip!

[Dobby]

I separated them last night so I could get some sleep before the work week starts. Dobby ate a ton of salad and hay while they were separated so he must have been hungry all day.

With my schedule this week, they’ll be separated during most meal times for the rest of the week so Dobby will get his normal calorie intake. I’ll also be able to see if the cecals in Pip are reduced now that he can’t steal Dobby’s portion of pellets and salad. But they’ll still spend a good 4 or 5 hours together after work each day.

I’m hopeful that next weekend I’ll be able to put them together on Friday night and keep them together maybe forever?!?!

[Dobby]

They’ve spent every evening this week together and are doing very well. Over the course of the last two nights I have only seen Dobby try to hump Pip once. Pip hasn’t tried anything. Otherwise it’s been grooming, running around together, munching on hay and such.

Tonight they are going to have their first sleep over! Wish me luck.

[Irina]

Sounds promising Dobby! Good luck! Post pictures if you can!

[Dobby]

They’ve been together 24 hours now and everything is going well. There has been no fighting but there also hasn’t been much cuddling or grooming. They seem to just be coexisting, which is fine with me. Hopefully some of that will develop with time.

Pip is still getting most of the food. Hopefully that evens out soon.

I tried to get some pictures today but the lighting in my apartment is pretty bad if it isn’t sunny outside. All of the pictures required a flash and that makes them look possessed!!

[Irina]

Sounds good Dobby! Very similar to my boys for the first few days together. They didn’t avoid each other, but there wasn’t much togetherness either. After 2-3 days, they started cuddling together, sleeping together, grooming ect. It seemed to get better as time went on.

Congratulations!

[Dobby]

I woke up this morning to the two of them trying to avoid being humped by each other in their cage.  I realized it was later than normal for their breakfasts, because of the time change, and I’m not sure if that was part of the reason why.  

They also tried throughout the morning, sometimes successfully, sometimes not so much, to hump each other.  They never got close to fighting though.  And they have been coexisting peacefully since, with some grooming and attempts at cuddling.  

I plan on keeping them together from here on out, if there are no flights or nips for the rest of the day.  This means they will spend about 9 hours together tomorrow unsupervised while I’m at work.  I’m pretty nervous about this.  I might try to sneak out of the office early but there is no guarantee that I can do this.  If any of you bonding experts think this is a bad idea, let me know.

My biggest concern right now is the return of lots of cecals.  I’m pretty sure it is related to Pip getting more food than he should have, since it has become problematic only about a day or so after they’ve started eating their meals together.  Pip is a pretty small guy (between 1 1/2 to 2 pounds now) and I’m thinking his little body can’t process everything.  Should I cut back on the food and slowly increase it?  They will, of course, have unlimited hay in the meantime.  Any ideas on this would be appreciated.

Hmm, as I was typing the above, I glanced over and saw Pip reach down like he was going to eat his cecals and then, instead of eating them, he looked up but a whole bunch still came out.  They were left on the floor as he hopped away.  This is the first time I’ve caught him in the act.  

To end on a happy note, here are the relatively content roommates together…

…who occasionally snuggle.

 

 

[Irina]

Hi Dobby! My two also jumped eachother on and off when they were first together after cementing their bond. I never had to intervene, and there was no real aggression. I too had to leave them for 8-9 hours after they had been together for 72 hours. It worked out fine- but I was very nervous! Perhaps someone who knows more than I will comment.

I think it sounds like things are going great!

More importantly, your bunnies are adorable! (Which is Pip and which is Dobby?)

[Dobby]

Thanks, Irina. Sometimes they are more cuteness than should be allowed together in one place. 🙂 Dobby is the black one and Pip is the orange one.

[Irina]

Definitely too cute! What breed are they? How old? I want them!

Or at least one (or two) as cute!

[Dobby]

They are both netherland dwarfs and are both on the smaller end of the weight range for the breed. I think Pip must have been the runt of his litter though, because he is just so small. They are both about 3. They were rescues so I don’t know their exact ages.

[Irina]

Runt or not- adorable!

[Dobby]

They spent the day alone together and everything went well. I walked in to find Pip grooming Dobby and as I type Dobby is grooming Pip. They are now exploring the entire living room together for the first time and they are enjoying it. I think Dobby is very happy to be back in the living room and back to his old routine, albeit with a new roommate.

I also found a few pellets remaining when I got home. This makes me feel much better. And no cecals that I’ve noticed yet. I cut down on their greens quite a bit last night so that may have helped. I will stick with the smaller amounts for awhile and then see if I can increase it slowly.

Yay!

[Irina]

Sounds great Dobby! Congratulations!

[Author]

Messages