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Forum DIET & CARE Evaluate My Rabbit’s Diet, Please?

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    • PuffyCottonCandy
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        My female rabbit is at truly unripe age of seven months old. She is not spayed, but I plan on doing so in the next month. Her diet is pellet free (well, mostly. I use single pellets as treats). My brother and I assume she is 3 to 4 pounds (she’s an English spot) But we dont have a scale sensitive enough to weigh her. With that said, here diet consists of:

        Unlimited Timothy hay (I plan on getting orchard grass hay when my current bag of Timothy is finished, is that okay?)
        Unlimited fresh water (replaced twice a day)
        1 1/2 cup of veggies consisting of 3 of the following: romaine lettuce, parsley, mint, cilantro, red cabbage, and spinach (the extra half cup is to make up for her lack of pellets)
        And, of course, the occasional piece of strawberry or pellet as a treat. I will never ever get store bought treats, except from binky bunny since I can trust they aren’t unsafely unhealthy for my bun.

        Thanks


      • Deleted User
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          Looks like a good foundation but think it needs some tweeking, … and if you really want to stick to a pellet free diet then you will need to up and expand the vegetables quite a bit. For a basic diet you might want to read this page: http://rabbit.org/suggested-vegetables-and-fruits-for-a-rabbit-diet/ Please take the time to read the article as well as looking at the lists. You will see you are including a lot of good greens, and some of the other things that she needs. But even if you decide to feed pellets you’ll want to increase the vegetables. If you want to stick to pellet free then you will want to do a lot more research since pellets do contain many vitamins and supplements and you need to make up for there absents.


        • peppypoo
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            Though going pellet-free is definitely feasible for adult rabbits, I think it might be a better idea to supplement her diet with pellets until she’s about a year old, and finished growing. A good guide for the amount of pellets to feed (as well as what to look for in pellets) is available both in the link that Grey Dove provided, and in the “BUNNY INFO” section of this forum.

            As for hay/veggies, it looks like you’re on the right track! Timothy and orchard grass hay can be used interchangeably, so feel free to keep her on timothy or switch if you want. Your veggie menu looks great, though spinach does tend to be high in calcium so should be given sparingly. Again, the House Rabbit Society link is a great reference on veggie variety.


          • PuffyCottonCandy
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              Thanks! I would consider this pellet-free thing temporary until I can convince my mom to let me buy Timothy pellets. She accidently bought alfalfa pellets with the dried fruit and nuts and I refrain from letting my rabbit eat it (the pellets act as a treat, but I don’t let my bun eat the nuts and such). Do you think that maybe I should feed less pellets then what I should for her weight since the pellets are so high in calcium and other unneeded nutrients that are potentially harmful to my rabbit?


            • Deleted User
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                Sorry about the pellet mix up, …I know how that is when someone has bought something for you and you are stuck.

                First you’ve got a young rabbit who really can and should be eating quite a bit as she is still growing. I know there is a little disagreement about when it is no longer good to feed alfalfa but sounds like yours is still young enough. I realize it would be a pain but could you pick out the seeds and such from the pellets and give her a serving of just the pellets? If it helps they will also go faster which may let you get the timothy based pellets sooner. But I really think its the seeds and fruits that are your bigger problem and if you can sift those out you should be okay.

                What kind of fruit is it? You might be able to save some (dried banana for example) and use it as treats.

                But you do also need to increase her greens and balance them out a bit as explained in the article I posted earlier. Parsley and spinach shouldn’t usually be served together, … cabbage is a vegetable not a green so you want less of that (came as a surprise to me and annoyed me!), and so on. Not sure where you are of course but if its summer for you and you have access to a garden (or someone with one) remember all those good bits that lots of people don’t eat are terrific for your rabbit, carrot tops, beat and turnip leaves, broccoli and cucumber leaves to name a few. (Also all mentioned in the list provided.) You’ve got a younger rabbit so again feeding over the minimum of greens (if you can) won’t hurt and would be a good thing while she’s growing.

                Hope some of this helps. Best of luck!


              • Eucalyptus
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                  I recommend staying off of pellets. And I do not believe that age is a factor. No bunny in the wild is eating pellets, so how could they “need” them as babies? However, I do agree that you should have as much diversity as possible with her veggies. Java is pellet-free and is thriving, but he gets 14-17 veggies daily (down from 25+ because we removed non-organic veggies). I do know of people who have pellet-free buns that are only getting 5-6 veggies, but I wouldn’t recommend it. The more the better, and the more you can confidently feel like all of her nutritional needs are being met.

                  A couple of other tips: Both spinach and parsley contain oxalic acids and shouldn’t be fed in high amounts. I never feed more than two of these types of veggies at the same time, and generally try to rotate as recommended. Red cabbage is also a ‘non-leafy green’ and shouldn’t be fed as much as the others. Leafy greens are the most nutritiously dense and healthiest overall for your bun, so if you can add more veggies, get those. Some recommendations that are generally easy to find are: basil, dandelion, fennel, carrot tops, and kale. All are pretty popular with bunnies, too.

                  Also, for treats, I’d just recommend fruits or veggies. Once you find out what her favorite greens are, they can be just as rewarding as a treat, and you don’t have to worry about being super conservative about it. So it can be advtantageous to use during training. Fruit is a great bonding treat (hand feeding, etc). Overall these are more natural options (that are still nutritious) than some of the more processed treats. I don’t mind feeding the free “cookie” that we occasionally get from a BB package.

                  Some reasons that I recommend a pellet-free diet would be that for one, they’re unnatural. If you can get your nutritional needs met naturally, definitely go that route. Fresh veggies are natural, while a processed “pill” is not. Pellets contain other things that aren’t necessary, making them the inferior option to fresh veggies because there are NO unnatural and artificial ingredients in them. One of the top ingredients (#3 or 4) in the high quality brand of pellets, Oxbow, is molasses. And you wonder why bunnies go crazy for them.In general, I tend to feel that something that needed to be fortified with vitamins is just silly. If you had to fortify it .. that means your product was not naturally healthy in the first place. Increasing numbers of rabbit-savy vets have been linking dental issues to pellets, too. Also, while I’m not a fanatic about strict diets, it’s interesting to note that many brands of pellets fortify their product with an animal-derived nutrient. In other words, we’re feeding a naturally vegan species something that is not vegan. Again, I’m not a vegan and I’m not one to flip out over things like that, but it’s just … odd.

                  Even though our bunny, Java, was only getting a VERY tiny bowl of pellets (maybe 10 pellets total) a night, and he was getting full salads of 20+ veggies, removing pellets completely still improved his health. He was always healthy, but a week after we had removed the pellets, his fur got softer. I always refer to it as “melting in your hands” even though that sounds silly. But, in general he seemed … more lively. We made a vet appointment after he had been pelletless for almost 2 months and the vet was extremely impressed and pleased with his overall state.

                  Hope this helps, and good luck!


                • Monkeybun
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                    Don’t forget, Eucalyptus, that our bunnies are vastly different than the wild ones now. They have been bred to be the way they are, and have lost many of the wild instincts, and obviously digestive systems that the wild ones have. So they do often require different foods.

                    But yes, to be pellet free, they need a very diverse veggie diet.. 3 types a day won’t give them the nutrients and minerals required. A pellet free diet requires a lot of care and attention, so be sure to research it more


                  • Eucalyptus
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                      I actually disagree. Domestication doesn’t mean evolution. This idea is why so many domestic cats and dogs have a high disease rate as well, but that’s a different topic. Then again, I don’t know about bunny digestive systems as well as cats and dogs, but the idea is relatively the same, so I would imagine that if they do differ, then it’s very minimally.

                      A lot of people have taken in cottontails and other “wild” breeds of bunnies and there wasn’t any dietary issues. If they were so vastly different, then they would keel over when fed pellets, or need 50 different fruits, veggies, herbs, twigs, roots, etc.


                    • Deleted User
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                        Eucalyptus, while I suspect in general terms you are probably right, I also think that some breeds have been more tampered with (or evolved if you like) then others and so Monkeybun also has a point. However, more importantly I think you might want to read Puffy Cotton Candy’s reply! Your point of view is entirely valid, but from what Puffy Cotton Candy wrote in her reply she is not in charge of the budget, the shopping and therefore the rabbit diet. Since the majority of us do not live where produce is so cheap as you do it would be nice not to over stress your option when it may not be one available to this rabbit owner. When one is in complete control of the finances and choices involved in the care of a pet it is very different from when one must rely on a parent to provide the essentials. In that case it is most important to place the greatest emphasis on the absolute necessities. A pellet free diet may be your preference, but it is not an Essential for rabbit care, and if the wide selection of vegetables it requires is not something an owner can provide then it is best to make an educated choice of pellet (which this person has already attempted to do , again look at her last note), and do the best one can. If in future years other options are explored by a then independant pet owner then that is different.


                      • hannaroo
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                          Veterinary science supports the use of pellets for domestic rabbits. You can exclude them but it’s alot of work and money (in certain areas) and unless your rabbit can’t tolerate pellets I would supply them that way your KNOW your getting all the right nutrients for your growing rabbit.

                          If you decide to go down the road of a veggie only diet I would do ALOT of research so your rabbit gets everything it needs. I also agree on waiting until your rabbit is older.

                          wild rabbits eat ALOT more grass and have a much more varied and natural diet than what humans can supply. Their life expectancy is also much much lower than a domestic rabbit so it’s hard to compare the diets and draw a conclusion as to what is better. We specialise their diets to optimise their health whereas wild rabbits focus on survival and reproduction.

                          I personally would recommend you switch to a better pellet brand and feed them freely until it’s fully grown. Although I’m not against pellet less diets, I just trust the advice from my vet and reputable pellet brands. Pellets basically add calories needed to make up for any calories needed and are basically a vitamin and mineral supplement so your bunny doesn’t miss out.


                        • MoveDiagonally
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                            PuffyCottonCandy – Are you sure about your rabbits weight? English Spots are usually 5-8lbs so 3-4lbs would be on the small side. Do you have a bathroom scale that you could weigh your bunny on? Bunny diet amounts are based around weight so knowing this for sure will help people give advice. If you continue to feed pellet free, even just for now, I would listen to Eucalyptus’ and Grey Dove’s advice and try to get more veggie variety and quantity (if possible).

                            7 months is usually when pellets are restricted so I’m not sure why everyone is suggesting they should still be free fed at your bunnies age? Did I miss something?

                            On pellet vs pellet free, I don’t think this thread should be a debate about it. Even vets don’t agree. Maybe another debate oriented thread could be made to discuss it? I don’t see anything wrong with Eucalyptus offering advice (I think it’s great actually) as the OP is not feeding pellets and her rabbit is, at least currently, on a pellet free diet.


                          • hannaroo
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                              It’s recommended to feed rabbits under a year unlimited pellets while they grow.

                              I’m not against pellet less diets at all and wasn’t debating that they’re a bad thing I just think as PCT isn’t feeding much veggies pellets should be included until they have done the full research on pellet less diets.

                              Eucalyptus has done a great job with Java’ s diet and helped him with his tummy issues but has also fully researched veggie diets, but most importantly supplies alot more veggies.


                            • Sarita
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                                House Rabbit Society recommends decreasing pellets to 1/2 per 6 lb body weight at 7 months. So once you can get some better pellets that is what you should do. I think you need a much more varied types of vegetables as well whether or not you feed pellets….so speaking to that, please read the article and list that Grey Dove linked you to.


                              • MoveDiagonally
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                                  Hannaroo – I wasn’t directing my comment about debate at you or anyone in particular. Sometimes topics like this dissolve into pellet vs pellet free debates and that doesn’t help the person asking the question so I was just voicing my desire to not have that happen.

                                  Sarita commented on the 7 months = decreasing pellets. It’s from the HRS’s recommendations here:
                                  http://rabbit.org/faq-diet/


                                • Sarita
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                                    I agree with MoveDiagonally – let’s just try to help out PuffyCottonCandy instead of debating a pellet less diet – it’s been stated by PCC anyway that he/she will give pellets and that PCC must rely on his/her mom for food for the rabbit.


                                  • hannaroo
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                                      MD – don’t worry I wasn’t offended just wanted to clarify as I felt my previous comment may have come across as anti pellet but that was not the case and I didn’t want to offend or spark a debate. No harm done

                                      Sorry I gave the wrong advice about the amount of pellets I’d read conflicting advice and got confused but your correct


                                    • Deleted User
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                                        Oddly enough I believe I came across the unlimited pellet to one year recommendation somewhere else on this forum in the last day or so. I believe some pellet brand is giving this advice and that is why there is some confusion growing up around it.

                                        However, in my earlier post I was not addressing quantity, but was making the point that at six months an alfalfa pellet was still exceptable (particularly as it is what Puffy Cotton Candy has access too, and is unable to currently replace) and especially given the smaller quantity/variety of vegetables that if the harmful bits were taken out they’d do for now. I’m no expert on baby rabbits but that seemed to me the best compromise given the current situation.


                                      • Beka27
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                                          Eucalyptus has wonderful info on pellet-free diets (she’s kind of our resident expert on the subject!) I always appreciate her input on the topic!

                                          With that said though, pellet-free isn’t an option for everyone for a variety of reasons and it seems like in this case, pellet-free isn’t the ultimate goal here.

                                          HRS recommends alfalfa in the diet until 7 months, but I’ve also heard variations of this. Some people do not do alfalfa at all, some transition them to timothy a little earlier, some transition a little later.

                                          We brought our mini rex home when she was about 4 months. She was eating timothy at the rescue, so I didn’t see any reason to transition to alfalfa for 3 months, and then transition her back. Other people have adult rabbits eating timothy when they get a baby and just put the baby on the same food.

                                          So while HRS says 7 months, there shouldn’t be any adverse effects from feeding it until a year old.

                                          Puffycottoncandy, if we haven’t lost you… There does need to be a transition period, so you will want to have both alfalfa and timothy pellets available for a few weeks while making that change. Can you sift the “junk” out of the alfalfa pellets with a kitchen colander or strainer? When you are left with just the plain alfalfa pellets, you can start mixing the alfalfa with timothy pellets to change her over slowly.

                                          Can you get a timothy pellet this week and start switching her over? Explain to your mom that you cannot wait until the alfalfa pellets are completely gone.

                                          I would like you to aim to get her switched over and eating the timothy pellets exclusively (along with hay/veggies) before the spay.


                                        • tanlover14
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                                            Just throwing in my 2 cents –

                                            I would definitely get an accurate weight for the bun bun. As MD stated the typical weight of an English Spot – I would worry on an all veggie diet lately your bunny may not have put on enough weight in which case I would suggest picking out the nuts, veggies, ect. and just feeding her the pellets in a large quantity. If she DOES need to gain some weight, alfalfa would probably be the best at least for a month or two. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, of course.

                                            I would agree to try and not go pellet-free in your situation – with your parents supplying the food I know an all-veg diet can get VERY expensive. Mainly because they need so many diff varieties to supplement the different nutrients they need.


                                          • PuffyCottonCandy
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                                              Thanks for all the help! I really never expected I would get so many tips over the course of the night. You see, money isn’t really the problem with my mom. We’ve got plenty. She just says she thinks it’s impractical to buy pellets since she got a rather large bag. We do have a bathroom scale, but I’m pretty sure it isn’t sensitive enough to weigh my rabbit. I’ll try right now.

                                              Results: The scale wasn’t sensitive enough I’ll ask my vet to weigh here when I go to get her nails clipped (I’m gonna do that sometime this week).

                                              By the way, since I got this rabbit from the pet store (huge mistake, I know) they didn’t tell me the breed, gender, or birthday of my rabbit when I got her. Huge disappointment on their part. I can only assume she is an English spot mix. She might be a dwarf because that’s what most pet stores sell, I dunno. Also, she isn’t all that close to fully grown yet, which may explain why she has most likely not reached 5 pounds.


                                            • Sarita
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                                                I totally understand your mom’s position and it’s a practical one – I would just take out the seeds and bits at this point and offer her the pellets like you are currently doing and just make sure the next bag is the better kind. It’s probably going to be a hassle to do that but it sounds like that is what you are going to have to do.


                                              • Eucalyptus
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                                                  Sorry, I was not intending to debate. I just wanted to state my personal opinions and reasons for why I recommend the pellet-free diet and why I strongly believe that it’s the most ideal diet that any rabbit can have. I don’t intend to force it at all, and I know that some people just aren’t capable of providing the needs necessary for that type of diet. That being said, I still stand by all of my reasons for the diet. When I first looked into a pellet-free diet, it seemed like there was very minimal information around. I grasped for answers until I was lucky enough to find someone who first hand did her own research and has a bunny on that diet. So, I do like to go into depth about the diet for those who might be in a similar position and aren’t sure where to start.

                                                  As reassured many times, I think that a variety of veggies, pelletless or not, is necessary and ideal. But for a pelletless diet, I think it’s necessary, despite some bunny owners not providing much variety at all for their pellet-free buns. I just feel that pellets are more of a supplement for those that aren’t meeting all nutrtional needs, and when removing said supplement, you should be filling in those gaps by providing a large variety of veggies.

                                                  So in the OP’s case, even if pellets do end up a part of the diet, I think that more veggies should be added as well. And speaking directly to PCC: I would try and discuss the bunny’s life with your parents in detail. If they’re providing, talk to them about what they’re willing to provide. If you don’t feel confident that they’ll be able to provide an adequate amount/variety of veggies to keep her pellet-free, then I would recommend the use of pellets. Always go with the safer option, and always trust your gut.


                                                • Deleted User
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                                                    Puffy Cotton Candy, getting the vet to weigh your rabbit and work out its age etc. is the best option. However, to give you an idea in the mean time just weigh yourself on your bathroom scale, then pick up the rabbit and step back on the scale. Subtract the original reading from this one and you will then have a concept of what she weighs. Those scales are never very reliable but it should help.

                                                    Good luck sorting the pellets out from the rest of the additives in the bag. Hope you enjoy planning your vegetable buying lists. As I’m sure you’ve gathered from all the responses you’ve made a good beginning but more vegetables cycled a little differently in greater quantities is your next step. Be sure to introduce new things slowly one at a time in case they don’t agree with your rabbit. (As described in the article I posted the link to.)

                                                    Perhaps showing your Mother this thread may help her expand her understanding of the rabbit’s needs, … though I fully sympathize with wanting to use up something once it has been bought.

                                                    Looking forward to hearing from and about you both in the coming months! Don’t be shy, as you can see you will always get advice. For a little extra research the info links on the Binky Bunny site are excellent , and the House Rabbit Society’s site (the page I posted above is on their site) has lots of trustworthy excellent information and can answer all sorts of questions. (A couple of months back it answered several I didn’t know enough to even ask.) I hope you have a lovely time with your new friend.


                                                  • PuffyCottonCandy
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                                                      Thanks, Grey Dove :-). I plan on doing that sometime this week, as I said earlier (and by that, I mean going to the vet to get Basil’s nails trimmed and her weight checked). I went to the petstore today. Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to by my bun more pellets, so I decided to continue giving her the alfalfa ones but not as many as I am supposed to give her if they were timothy pellets. I did get her a bag of orchard grass and a bag of mixed hays, and she totally hit it off with those. I’m rather satisfied to know 100% that she isn’t all that picky haha.

                                                      I forgot to mention that when I first got the alfalfa pellets, I gave her a regular amount and she began to dribble urine After a day, she stopped, and its been a week with no dribbling, so I’ve dismissed my paranoia about bladder stones and other illnesses. Do you guys think I should get her checked up for bladder stones and such, or am I in the safe zone? Sorry if this isn’t entirely relevant to this thread in particular, but it seems fitting since it has to do with the whole alfalfa pellet debate of sorts hehe.


                                                    • Sarita
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                                                        I doubt at her age she has bladder stones or a urinary tract infection – I would be quite surprised by that. What exactly do you mean by dribble – peeing outside her box because that is not unusual for an unaltered young rabbit not to be fully litter trained.


                                                      • PuffyCottonCandy
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                                                          Well, since she was playing outside, she decided to hope onto our concrete porch to cool off in the shade. When I went away for one second to get her a piece of lettuce (my mom was watching her as well) and came back outside, I saw a trail of drops of pee leading to where my rabbit was flopped. We didn’t bring the litterbox outside since we didn’t really care if she did her business on the grass (free fertilizer, guys!). With that said, she didn’t have access to it.

                                                          Off topic: I still can’t get over how cute she looked while flopped hehe.


                                                        • Sarita
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                                                            Well that is why she peed – no box and she was outside…that would be perfectly normal behavior.


                                                          • Nibbler2012
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                                                              Hi Newb here, I mean Nibbler

                                                              Has anyone been able to find pellets without D3??

                                                              Thanks so much


                                                            • LBJ10
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                                                                This is an old thread. We ask members not to reply to old threads because it causes confusion. I’m going to lock this one, please start a new one so we can answer your question more efficiently. If you need help starting a new thread, let me know.

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                                                            Forum DIET & CARE Evaluate My Rabbit’s Diet, Please?