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Forum BONDING Sally and Harley’s bonding thread! UPDATE: BONDED!

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    • NewBunnyOwner123
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         I guess I will mark today’s play date as their first day of bonding! Their mini play date went so well I decided to skip waiting the extra week and start bonding the two!

        History on the two. They have their cages right next to eachother and they share a mutual litterbox that is set in the kitchen for during play times. (i just like having an extra box just in case :p)  Harley is neutered and has been for nearly 2 months now and Sally is nearly 3 weeks post spay. For the past few weeks I have been allowing them to interact through the bars of the cage and such and I have even seen some grooms between the two! 

         

        ANYHOO! Today the hubby and I decided, “well lets just get this going!” and we got Harley and Sally and placed them in the hallway. The first thing that happened was Harley humped Sally and she just accepted it. After Harley was done dominating he flopped next to her and just laid there… they both just layed there next to each other. Harley even groom the inside of her ear! )   After about 15 minutes Sally decided that SHE wanted to be the humper and attempted to hump Harley but Harley did not like that AT ALL he fought it the entire time and he would quickly turn around and hump Sally and she would quickly stop humping and allow him to do it instead. (QUESTION: When Sally decides to try and hump Harley and Harley fights it and they have this circling battle going on what do I do? Do I stop it? ) After awhile they just kind of lounged together lol it was SOOOO cute! Sally was flopped against the wall and Harley squeezed between Sally and the wall and flopped over it was the cutest thing I have ever seen! Then he resumed cleaning her ears for her I had to cut it short after about an hour and a half because Sally peed on my floor… TWICE!  (QUESTION: would it be ok to place the litterbox that they have been sharing in the hallway where she peed while bonding? I did not appreciate her peeing in that corner, on my carpet, TWICE!) 

        I don’t want ot get my hopes up but I think these guys will go pretty smoothly.  Here is one of the multiple times they were flopped next to each other. They like the cool vent  


      • NewBunnyOwner123
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           Ok, I’m having mixed feelings about todays bonding session. We are getting lots of grooms from Harley to Sally and he is also humping. BUT He will not allow Sally to hump him AT ALL they break out into a crazy circling behavior and I get scared a fight will break out so I grab them and lay them side by side and pet them because it really calms them down and makes Harley groom Sally again. It just goes down hill when Sally tries humping him! 

           
          I don’t know what to do in that situation. Also Harley seems to try and nip her feet? Or that’s what it looks like. He keeps trying to work his way under her and it looks like he is trying to grab her feet. No grooms from Sally… she is demanding it a lot and Harley has given in to grooms but Sally won’t groom him. And when Harley humps her she lets him do it… 
           
          When we are doing a “bond session” I have them in a small area but when I am done with the bonding I allow them to both run around the house still and this is when they get a long the best. They are following each other around and I am getting lots of binkies from Sally and zoomies from Harley and they are even choosing to snuggle with each other and flop with one another after running around. 
           
          I need help! I don’t know where to go from here because they seem perfect until Sally attemps to hump Harley and then it just gets stressful for me because I don’t know what’s going to happen if I just allow them to figure it out or if I’m doing the right thing by splitting it up and then putting them side by side and petting them to calm them down… 
           
           
          And I know it’s not the most “smart” thing to do by continue to allow them to run around when they aren’t bonded yet but they seem to get along the most when they are. Most of the time it’s just them following each other around and lounging next to each other. As I type this they are both at my feet laying down together…. I’m just confused *sigh* I’m not sure what to look for during bonding…


        • Deleted User
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            The point of contention seems to be Saly’s continuing desire to challenge Harley’s dominance by humping him. This may in part be due to some hormones still remaining in her system post-spay so she simply may more readily consent to his dominance in a couple weeks. But, question, which one actually weighs more? Even being spayed a long time, if she is larger, she may want to continue to exercise dominance. People often find that taking them for a drive in the car, carriers side by side, is helpful. For some reason, the car ride’s tendency to disorient them makes them more inclined to empathize and thus bond. . . . I don’t know if that’s any help. Don’t feel too rushed about things. Rabbits do things in their own time. I had three rabbits bonded relatively young but a smaller one suddenly realized she outweighed the other two and started squashing them. But most obnoxiously, she would pretend she wanted to lick their ears and then would bite hard enough to draw blood. That actually resolved pretty easily. They had been together long enough that when I put her in isolation in the bathroom, she totally understood it as punishment. I left herr there two days and she actually stressed, shedding extensively. I felt so bad I took her to PetsMart for a pedicure and the three of them never had anymore problems. They’re all a little unique. . . . Hang in there.


          • NewBunnyOwner123
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              Thank you! I don’t see it necessary to stress bond yet. And Harley is heavier than Sally so he easily takes the reins back when sally tries to assert herself. Right now Harley is licking her face to death lol So in this situation who is the dominant one? Harley or Sally? Because Sally demands grooms and he grooms her but Harley humps and she just allows it to happen most of the time… This is day two of bonding so I feel like they have made great progress they just seem to be at a stand still when it comes to humping… do you recommend I just stop any attemps from Sally when she humps? Just prevent her humping him or something?


            • Deleted User
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                I don’t know a good answer to that. Larger rabbits will tend to hump to assert dominance; it seems to me as if maybe Sally is just trying to counter his dominance and get other assurances from him. . . . As you said, he grooms her a good deal. I would just watch them as closely as you can and try and imagine what each is trying to accomplish with the other in terms of a balance of trust and security. . . . It all sounds so easy, but every set of rabbits is their own mystery. Another thing that can become an issue is food dishes; have you thought that out or found any advice on it? I’ve had rabbits get along together for three days, each with their own dishes then, one of them eat from the other’s dish, and suddenly all heck breaks loose. That’s one I don’t always know how to negotiate. . . . .


              • NewBunnyOwner123
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                  Oh gosh I didn’t even think about that! Well they were eating apple sticks side by side a few minutes ago and they are sharing a litter box that was placed in the living room without any issues…and they were also tag teaming a willow ball together… I don’t know about food bowls though. I currently have Sally in Harley’s cage and Harley in Sally’s so they are using each other’s food bowl for now. Sally does have a tendency to guard her food bowl from me so I guess we will see what happens when we get to that point :/

                  I will update after tonight’s bond session! thank you a bunch!


                • Deleted User
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                    Have fun and stay relaxed and confident; your confidence will make each of them feel more secure too. Yeah, the bowls is a funny thing. It never was an issue with any but these two. . . And I didn’t work hard enough on it and simply never bonded them. . . . But things worked out pretty well even so.


                  • Emmie
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                      I think they will need to sort there dominance issues out by themselves. This was the most difficult part of the bonding process for Thane and Siha. Thane would hump Siha (He’s half her size lol) and then Siha would nip hip to correct him. They would circle each other a good bit. I wasn’t comfortable with that, so I would seperate them and calm them down.

                      The funny thing is, the dominance issue stopped right after the fire alarm incident in my apartment block last weekend! I stuffed the two in a carrier and ran! Ultimate stress bonding! But it did the trick (I think spaying Siha also kind of helped that issue.) So maybe some stress bonding wouldn’t hurt. I did make a thread about stress-bonding without a car, might be worth a look.


                    • NewBunnyOwner123
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                        I don’t know what to think about tonight’s bonding session. I kept it short because I am too tired to think about if it’s good or bad so I ended it on a good note.
                        Basically what keeps happening is Harley is getting pretty annoyed that Sally will not groom him. There was no humping tonight but a lot of Harley grooming Sally and then asking for grooms in return. Sally just sits there and Harley starts trying to nibble at her feet! I think he is starting to get flustered and I don’t know why Sally will not groom him! He is always willing to groom her and she just doesn’t seem to care!

                        Oh also, I don’t know if this is grooming or being mean so I could really use some input. Tonight, while Harley was licking Sally’s face he started pulling on her whiskers! Sally, of course, didn’t do anything or even gave a sign that she cared but I still stopped him because it looked painful. I also stop him when he tries to reach underneath Sally for her feet.


                      • Emmie
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                          I don’t know, I wouldn’t really stop any behaviour unless it seemed aggressive and was obviously bothering the other buns. Siha used nip Thane all the time. She still does if he’s in her way. It’s not aggressive and remember, they can’t exactly ask the other bun to move, so I figure it’s just her way to asking him to move. She doesn’t hurt him and he doesn’t resent her for it either.


                        • NewBunnyOwner123
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                             Day 3 of bonding and it was the most boring thing in the world. I don’t know if they are “bonded” or just coexisting! For the past hour they just kinda eh. They sat there, groomed themselves, took a nap. 

                             
                            I’m starting to sense that Harley is getting frustrated that Sally won’t groom him back though. He thumped at her a few times and drew his ears back when she didn’t do anything. After about an hour I gave them some of their hay and pellets and they just munched on it, not caring that the other was eating from each others bowls. Then I gave Harley a carrot and told them to just go play. I was seriously bored out of mind! 
                             
                            They are still having their grooming battles. There wasn’t any humping from either of them. Harley grooms Sally and she won’t return the favor. I can’t allow them to move in together until I actually see some love exchanged between both of them. But right now it just looks like they are just co existing. 
                             
                            Since I am home all day I’m just going to allow them free run for the day together. 
                             
                            I don’t know what to look for because not much has changed since day one of meeting except the humping has stopped…  Is a co existing type relationship strong enough to house rabbit  together? I’m still not going to do it yet but I’m just asking just in case this is what it turns out to be in the future…
                             
                            Here they are eating their breakfast after today’s bonding session: 
                             


                          • NewBunnyOwner123
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                               It’s always reassuring when I see them hanging out together by choice… look at the two cuties lounging together while I watch the news  

                               


                            • NewBunnyOwner123
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                                I was hesitant to call them bonded but on hour 7 of being together just hanging out I am confident that these guys are two love birds. They have both been grooming each other the past 30 minutes! Woohoo!


                              • Emmie
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                                  That’s good news, but my advice is to take it slowly. I thought Thane and Siha were bonded until I woke one morning to her tearing his fur out lol!

                                  They will need to sort the dominance issues out. Thane doesn’t look for grooms anymore. In fact he nuzzles under her massive dewlap and he’s happy with that!

                                  It’s good to see them chilled together though


                                • NewBunnyOwner123
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                                    Yeah right now Harley went into Sally’s pen with her and they are eating dinner together in the same bowl, in her “territory”. I don’t know if I should test tonight out or not. I think I will camp out on the couch tonight and see how it goes before collapsing Harley’s old cage. But they have been together since early this morning being so sweet with one another. I did take your advice about not interfering with certain behaviors and it turned out to be nothing but an over sensitive bunny momma. If something happens that I need advice on I will definitely update it though!


                                  • Emmie
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                                      Great! I put Thane and Siha together last night and I think they had a minor scuffle. Apart from that they’re doing well today!


                                    • tanlover14
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                                        I’m finally taking a peek at your thread!! Just in case any of those behaviors you mentioned before become a problem I wanted to update you on what they meant since I didn’t really see much feedback on that specifically.

                                        First off, your buns are doing soo good! Proud of those two!!

                                        Second, grooming is weird. Simba is quite obviously the “top bunny” of my group – but he LOVES to be groomed and he LOVES to groom everybunny and every other human also. The only time the grooming could become an issue is if one of them becomes extremely agitated over it. In which case I would suggest trying their favorite treat on the others head. Haha! I put Craisins in Simbas mop of hair and the Tans went crazy looking for them in his head and he loved every minute of it! LOLOL.

                                        As for the humping, if Sally is still humping Harley then there’s a big chance they haven’t established a set dominance yet. But with hierarchy it can always be changing so unless it’s creating fights I would just let it go.

                                        As for the nipping feet – my Tans do this when they’re annoyed at the other bunny. They will stick their heads really low (almost under his butt) and you can barely see him nip but you can tell because the other bunny jumps. It usually never goes any farther. If they do start chasing – then break them up (but don’t separate, do a stress bonding session or something of the sort) and let them go back to their area after that session is done.

                                        I just remembered you said something about circling each other also (in a beginning post). Circling usually indicates the beginning of a fight. My buns ALWAYS get sprayed with water when I notice them circling because it’s always ended in fur flying in my experience if it continues.

                                        Hope everything is going well still! Keep us updated!


                                      • NewBunnyOwner123
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                                          Thank you tanlover! I haven’t seen any humping yet and Sally quit trying thank god! She FINALLY groomed him last night. Thank god because Harley LOVES grooms
                                          Harley actually stayed the night in Sally’s pen last night so I think I can officially call them bonded?


                                        • tanlover14
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                                            Once they’ve been together for about 24-48 hours with no fighting you can usually consider them bonded! If something happens, don’t separate. Stress bond in a box or the laundry basket and just shake it around a bit, run the vacuum, whatevers and then put them back together. At this point, I think it’s important not to separate. You want them to work out any differences they have now that they can stay together long periods of time. And only constant interaction will ultimately achieve that.


                                          • NewBunnyOwner123
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                                              Yay! Then we have about 12 more hours to go before we hit the 48 hour mark of no arguments
                                              I was seriously worried about bonding.. I have been stalking the bonding threads for pointers before bonding them and I was thinking this was going to be much more difficult than it was. I think allowing them to interact with one another through the bars the last couple months before bonding really helped bond them as quickly and easily as it was.
                                              I think that tomorrow morning I will collapse Harley’s cage if they go through their second night together with no issues. That will be 2 whole days of being with one another constantly with no arguments.


                                            • tanlover14
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                                                You should be fine by then!

                                                It can be really stressful but you definitely got lucky! I think it probably helped also. They were much more use to the others scent. My three Tans were constantly in view of each other, had the same play area, ect. and after their neuters/spay they were insanely easy to bond also.

                                                WHOO-HOO HARLEY AND SALLY! <3 Lover buns!


                                              • Emmie
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                                                  Yay!!! Those first nights can be so stressful! Last night my two were fine and I woke up to two happy buns looking to get out for playtime!

                                                  Tanlover – When you home the buns together, is it common to see lots of territorial poops in the enclosure at first? Thane usually leaves 1 or 2 for me, but this morning there was lots from both buns. What can I do and/or how long does this last?


                                                • NewBunnyOwner123
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                                                    Emmie, I am experiencing this currently but I think it’s normal. Sally isn’t marking with poop but Harley is and I think it’s because he moved into Sally’s enclosure so he is trying to make it his home too Or that’s what I am assuming lol I feel like once Harley feels more at home it will go away.


                                                  • tanlover14
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                                                      Oh god, yes. It’s VERY very normal. I swear when I put mine together it was like a poop tornardo went through the area. LOL. Sorry for that description!

                                                      It usually fades (at least it always has after adding a bun into my group) after a few weeks to a month. I tried to be very consistent with picking them up and throwing them in their litter a few times a day to help deter it. After awhile you usually begin to notice them decreasing.


                                                    • jerseygirl
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                                                        Congratulations!
                                                        I’m not surprised these 2 bonded quickly, judging from that first impromptu meet they had. But you never know how things will go with hormones still at play a little.
                                                        Great to read its gone so smoothly.

                                                        Reading this thread has been a good refresher for me. Thank you!


                                                      • Emmie
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                                                          Tanlover – thanks for that! I’ve noticed Siha doesn’t really mark that much with poop, it’s actually Thane even though it’s his area lol!


                                                        • LittlePuffyTail
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                                                            Congrats on your bonding!

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                                                        Forum BONDING Sally and Harley’s bonding thread! UPDATE: BONDED!