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Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Territorial marking after introduction to kitten

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    • Geo1mac
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        Hello, for the past two weeks my female, spayed bunny “Ben” (we were told she was a boy at first) has been 100 percent litter trained with -zero- accidents. Happy go lucky non chewing let you pet her, perfect bun. Then a few days ago
        She figured out she could follow us upstairs, to be with us. (Which was fine, we loved it) But that is also where our kitten stays. (Perfectly fine) the kitten and bunny were getting along fine (I watched every interaction like a hawk for days) and they seemed to click right away and really seemed to enjoy being together. Kitten playfully chased bunny, bunny said I’m boss and non aggressively chased cat, sniffing noses and both just flopping comfortably within only a few feet of each other. Or sitting observing each other. Yay! I expected the two to be snuggling in no time. Then my bunny found a bedroom aka bathroom corner upstairs. I expected as much And quickly put a litter box up there which she did use a little bit but most was still on the floor, then it was soon under the bed then a few pee spots beside the box.

        After a few days of cleaning pee on the carpet I decided to keep her downstairs (our living area) for a time being until I could figure upstairs out or until she got used to sharing the house territory with the cat (who always stayed upstairs before) Then she chose another corner to mark downstairs, I put a litter box there but again same as upstairs it quickly became more on the floor than box. Then she started using her usual hiding spot as a bathroom. I could handle a few pills but once she started peeing in there too I decided to confine her to her original territory for the night, the dining room (also where her primary litter box that she had been EXCELLENT about using is located. Upon waking I found she had peed in every corner of the room.

        Basically my bunny went from being 100% litter trained to territorial marking not everywhere but enough places. (Once the pee started I realized I had to dig deeper And see if anyone had any experience/suggestions. Keep in mind I do not think this is a UTI because her chosen spots seem too specific also too coincidental to having met the cat and realizing she has to share her territory.
        Does anyone have any suggestions? I have had to put her back in her cage for now until I can figure out how to get her to continue peeing in her box only.
        Thank you for any tips you might have!


      • BinkyBunny
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          This definitely sounds like marking — which is very common when there are other animals in the house. Usually when bunnies go through bonding they will mark excessively until the bond works out and sometimes continue to mark a bit for a while after. However, even though a cat and rabbit can have a relationship and a mutual respect, cats and rabbits don’t speak the same body language. Though there are many who definitely say their rabbits and cats play, many times the animal language within that that is confusing — A rabbit may request to be groomed, or a chase may happen that is to express something other than play, and this can lead a bunny needing to solidify his place in the household — marking is one way to do that. However, just the scent of another animal can get some rabbits to mark. And of course, it looks like you are pretty much aware of this aspect.

          If it were just another rabbit, I would say it will probably die down after bonding. I am really not sure about cats and rabbits. My gut would say, it will eventually die down once your bunny is feeling confident about her role in the household. However, bad habits could set in. I have had to give litter training refresher courses from time to time when I had more than one bunny.

          You could try petting Ben more during the time she is with the cat, (giving her the grooming that she may not get from the cat). Though I know the chasing is seen as play, I am not sure I would let your kitten chase her right now as that could possible be taken as a bossy move from the rabbit’s perspective. I would make your bunny feel like queen bee around the kitten. Give her tons of positive reinforcement during the interaction and see if that helps. In the meantime, watch her closely and see if you can catch her in the act of peeing or pooing outside of the bin. You can then gently escort her to the litterbox and offer her a treat and again, positive reinforcement once she is in the box. I would also take all the territorial poos and put them in the box. The territorial poos usually have an extra special secretion of scent on them and if they are all in her box, she may get the idea that those kind of  poos go in the box too.

          Now, please know, I am NOT a professional trainer or behaviorist, so these are just some basic ideas and guesses that may be worth a try. Others, who have had similar situations, may be able to step up and share what worked for them.


        • Geo1mac
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            Thank you for this reply I really, really appreciate your thoughts and bunny experience on this.

            I brought Ben out of her cage tonight and placed her back in “her territory” the gated off dining room. I placed a litter box in each corner complete with her smell. She spent the first minute depositing marbles next to each box (and I placed each one inside her boxes, I watched as she hopped inside to pee. I verbally praised her and placed some cilantro in each box as a reward/treat.

            We’ll see how that goes for now.

            My next question is do you think she and the kitten should have supervised time to keep getting used to each other in hopes this will blow over soon or just keep them apart for now. Since they have to live together keeping them separated over a long period time is going to get hard. I’m just so glad they don’t fight. But am discouraged by having my perfect house bunny dreams going down the drain over this introduction.


          • BinkyBunny
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              Since the goal is to get them to live together in the same household, you’d be going through this later anyway. And since the cat is young, it certainly would be good for her to get used to her housemates. Obviously just be careful that the kitten doesn’t scratch the bunny as a scratch from a cat can cause an abscess — just something about the bacteria in the nails of the cat and if it breaks the skin of the rabbit. (Now this is not always, but it’s not uncommon either — so just keep an eye on that). And since kitten’s nails are so sharp, it’s just better to be cautious. The the face and eyes of a bunny are of course more vulnerable.

              Here are is a good article about cat and rabbits and it has some introduction advice that you might find useful http://www.rabbit.org/journal/2-11/cats-and-rabbits.html

              Good Luck and keep us updated!


            • Geo1mac
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                Well it’s been a long while but this post is long over due for an update.
                News is GOOD! Cat and rabbit are happy companions. Bunny no longer marks downstairs at all.
                The way I resolved this… Basically it got to the point where bunny was having a poo and pee fest all over the house after meeting the cat. So I felt I just needed to reboot the whole situation and reluctantly put her back inside her cage with her litter box etc. (know that she has a large spacious cage and this was only out of necessity).
                It was probably a good 6 weeks before she started showing her perfect litter skills in her cage again. Trying to take her out giving her freedom sooner always resulted in still bad litter habits. So 6 weeks it was. (Poor thing)
                However once I saw she regained her good habits I made a four grid long enclosure with zip ties (can clarify if needed) and put the new cage in her old litter box spot. Put her litter box in and also a big box of hay. And a nice big towel over it so she could feel like it was her burrow/her territory. Then I had her stay in there a good week to keep an eye on her litter skills. She aced them!

                Next step I let her out in the same room only gated it and she always went back to her little territory which was probably all she needed the whole time. A place to call her own. She soon found another corner to go in so I put a big litter box there and now that is her primary spot period. She she still hops into her territory for food or to lay in the hay bed but is good about the litter box. Yes she sometimes drops marbles around the edges every so often but I’m pretty sure I read that was normal.
                She is now free downstairs, and never causes any problems!

                Kitty has since taken up preference territory in the basement and comes up to play in the mornings and evenings when it’s quiet. Though she and the bunny don’t cuddle they really do seem to enjoy each others company. Yay!!

                One bad habit bunny still has is if she gets upstairs she will drop marbles in various rooms and pee in one corner per room. I am not sure how to resolve this aside from we decided to just not let her upstairs. The most logical bet seems to be to give her another grid territory up here and redo what I did downstairs… Thoughts? In the mean time she is perfect downstairs, loves being petted is very friendly and fun so we just try or best not to let her up until I figure out how to resolve the upstairs issues.
                Anyway. Love having my house bun and I hope this update can help anyone who may run into a similar problem. There is hope!!


              • Geo1mac
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                  Ps I want to add that she has been perfect downstairs for a good few months! So I’m feeling good!


                • BinkyBunny
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                    Are there any litter boxes available for her upstairs?

                    The process you did to reel her litterbox habits in is exactly what I recommend in the littertraining section of this site. Start small and gradually increase freedom as habits improve. I think many people will learn from your experience because even though people want to allow exploration right away, that can make litter training difficult for some bunnies. Even with my veteran litter box users, sometimes I had to go back and give a refresher courses over the years! Though the refresher course of confinement usually takes much less time (one or two weeks).

                    Do you have an xpen that can slowly expand her freedom upstairs as well?


                  • Geo1mac
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                      Agreed, I think part of the prolonged aspect of her habits were do to figuring out the cat territory, her territory and frankly our territory. The magic solution seemed to be giving and keeping that little open doored cage so she would have that place to call her own. (Again just zip ties and 12 grids in a row which I’ve since reduced to 9 as she has free run now)

                      Yes I was putting a litter box in every place upstairs that she seemed to prefer, putting any loose pills inside, putting a paper towel in the bottom of the hay with her pee accidents… Though she did sometimes pee in them it was definitely more on the floor.

                      My thought is I need to take the time to train her upstairs as if the upstairs was a whole new house. Give her another little caged territory where she seems to prefer and see what that gets me.

                      Fortunately, it’s not much of a daily problem as we gate the stairs before bed and again during the day she’s content in her daily lounge spots, but it will be nice when the day comes that I can trust her completely. 🙂


                    • Geo1mac
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                        Well she broke the camels back with her pee marks on the carpet floor. So I made her a grid enclosure with little box and placed it in one of her favorite areas to randomly mark upstairs. We’re on day 3 now and though there have been no pee accidents in the new “cage” (yay!!) She’s still leaving poos outside the box around inside it. I’ve been scooping them up and putting them in her box.

                        My question is this,
                        About how long does this usually take. She is NOT happy with me for keeping her in there. 🙁 and I feel bad! Lol

                        When she stops pooing outside the box is that about when I should open the door to a larger (but slow and gradual) area to see how she’s doing?

                        Is what I’m doing what you would do? Keeping in mind she is perfectly trained downstairs. I just can’t take her sneaking upstairs and peeing on the carpet anymore, She’s like a Jeckal Hyde bun! perfect downstairs and a poo and pee bomber upstairs!!

                        Lastly? I hope and pray when I do let her back downstairs she does not need to be retrained down there too… Debating bringing her down and putting a pen around her box just in case, Oy! The things we do for our bunnies!!


                      • mia
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                          Don’t mean to hijack but can you explain what you mean by zip tie and placing a box? Are you basically moving the cage area to a new location? Does your bun then live in that new location without being moved back to the original location? Or are you making a home for the litter box and making similar ones in other locations?

                          One of my buns has great litter box habits in the bun homebase but poos and pees like crazy in my room in a couple different areas despite the number boxes I put in the same area. Wish to learn your tricks =).


                        • Geo1mac
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                            Hi! Not hijacking at all!

                            By grids I mean these:

                            https://m.bedbathandbeyond.com/bedbathbeyond/product/detail.do?itemId=16719773&categoryId=&path=&notinregularhierarchy=false&comeFromSearch=true

                            And I basically made a rectangle 4 grids long held together with zip tie. (Think 4 cubes long with an open floor. then I put the litter box all the way in th back in her favorite place to mark in my room. Also a towel over where the box is so she can feel she has a place to hide. Once she proves herself in there ill open the door and once shes ( hopefully trained) I’ll bring it down to say 2 cubes long and just leave it open with the box in that spot. Here’s hoping it works upstairs like it did down!
                            I’m hoping if she has these two little territories she won’t feel the need to keep marking MY territory. Fingers crossed, here’s hoping!

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                        Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Territorial marking after introduction to kitten