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BINKYBUNNY FORUMS

Forum HABITATS AND TOYS How the powerpoint went over with my parents. (trying to get my parents to let my bunny live indoors.)

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    • AshleyLovesBunnies
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        It went horrible. They laughed the whole time..they didnt even take it seriously. I ended up crying and couldn’t even talk, it was just horrinle and heart breaking for me. In 5 years I will be out of my parents house..and he’ll live in my house as a pampered little bun. I’m going to work..and build a shed and have air condtioning….i’m gonna prove to my parents that I can care for him on my own. I will make money by working my butt off.  

         

        I will spend hours in my shed with him. I will do all my homework in there with him. I will work to get him fixed, too.


      • kamdynandsunshinesmom
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          Sorry things went so bad. I am glad you have a postive attitude and try to keep your head up.


        • Baby-Daisy
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            I am sorry things went, maby if you show how confident yoy are towards doing this for your bunny, they might lighten up. Maby if you show them all the post yoy did, they might understand.


          • floppybunny123
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              I agree with BD, and even though your their daughter, it was still very rude to be laughing at something you worked so hard on and care so much about.


            • floppybunny123
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                also, have you ever asked WHY they don’t let your bunny live inside? If you have, please tell us. And if not then ask them and post


              • tanlover14
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                  That’s horrible and almost sounds like they really didn’t take you seriously at all. I would sit down and talk to them and tell them this is something very important to you and you respect them and for them not to care about something that’s this important to you really hurts. People think it’s funny to have a rabbit inside as all my friends pretty much laughed at me also — but if they take the time to listen to you, then they may really begin to understand your feelings and points on this.

                  Maybe you should tell them that you’re trying to be a good child — to be responsible about your pet — and you thought that’s what would make them proud? It sounds really insulting that they would give that reaction to you! I would be proud to ever have a child who put all that work into caring for their animal. Even if it wasn’t exactly what I wanted to hear.


                • Ava
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                    Wow, that’s sad…I honestly didn’t think that would be their reaction, even if they didn’t agree with you after seeing your presentation-and the hard work that went into it. That was just…rude. Do they understand that they hurt your feelings? Is there another adult you can talk to and ask them if they can talk to your parents for you? Your parents obviously don’t take you seriously so you’re going to have to work extra hard to prove to them that you can behave in a responsible, adult manner, especially where your bunny is concerned. (((hugs)))


                  • Snowytoshi
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                      That’s really upsetting! Unfortunately many people still have this image of bunnies as ‘livestock’ or outdoor pets. This isn’t to insult your parents, as I also know many nice people who give me strange looks when I talk about my rabbits sleeping on my bed or how my rabbits don’t live in hutches.

                      tanlover offered some really good ideas and I definitely agree that you should sit down with your parents and talk to them about their reaction. It’s really important to show them that you’re serious, that you respect them and that you were hoping they could respect something that is important to you. I’m sure you’ve heard of the typical “Mommy I want a puppy. I’ll clean any messes it makes, feed it, and walk it everyday. It would be my responsiblility Mommy.” Your parents may think that is what you’re doing, except you already have the ‘puppy’. If you show them that you’re willing to contribute to his vet care and that you’re happy to sit in the shed with him, doing your homework and playing with him, they’ll realize it’s not just a passing fad.

                      Best of luck!


                    • zoologist
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                        I think it was very irresponsible of your grandmother to buy you a rabbit without talking to your parents first. Honestly you’ve done a lot to show them you’re responsible and it’s a shame they didn’t take you seriously. I think you need to sit down with your grandmother, tell her the situation and how you feel, and have her talk to your parents. Her decision to buy you a live animal is why you’re in this mess any way.


                      • AshleyLovesBunnies
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                          Yeah. I’m very upset that he just can’t live inside. He’s just so sweet, and I’m his voice basically..so I will keep metioning to my parents that he would be in a lot better situation if he was a inside bunny. I have 5 more years in my parents house..so I will have to find something to make money..so I can pay for this all. I know if I get good grades I get 20 dollars from my parents and 20 from my grandparents..so that’ll add up. I just have to find another job to do that will pay more.


                        • Sam and Lady's Human
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                            I’m so sorry they made you cry
                            I missed the history so I apologize if this has been answered.
                            What are their qualms about having the bunny inside? Is there any way you can bargain for a trial period?


                          • Baby-Daisy
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                              I just nodiced something. Your grandma got the bunny for you for a reason, so she thought you can handle the responciblity.


                            • Hazel
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                                Ashley, I’m really sorry they treated you this way. It was cruel and totally uncalled for and I hope they realize how much they’ve upset you.

                                I, too would like to know what exactly their reasons are for not wanting him inside, that would make it easier for us to help you reason with them.

                                Also I agree with zoologist, your grandma caused this situation, she should be willing to help you fix this and talk to your parents.

                                If you decide to bring it up with your parents again, I would try it one on one (maybe with your grandma to back you up), that way they won’t be able to “team up” against you and make it a joke between them, which sadly seems to be what has happened during your presentation. Again, I’m really sorry about that. *hugs*


                              • tanlover14
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                                  I agree! You should bring your grandmother into the situation. She got you the bunny, which means she is more likely to take you seriously and more likely to help you argue your case with your parents! They’ll probably take her much more seriously if not you!


                                • AshleyLovesBunnies
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                                    They say he’s too much of a mess! My mom got mad at me today for buying him veggies..uhh..excuse me..he needs those. Duh. Then she said his pellets have everything he needs..no they dont, mom. She said experts know what to put in the pellets so you don’t have to buy all the veggies. So, I told her experts know that a bunny lives inside..if we were going by a experts view..my bunny should live indoors…she then kept quiet. We got home then had to take cover for bad storn passing through..Jingles and my kitty thought it was just playtime haha.

                                    My parents think that a rabbit makes a lot of mess. I told them he uses a litter box just like my kitty Murphy does. She came back with..it’s not gonna live inside drop it. I did try to ask them for a trial for a week..they said no..my dad was about to say yes but my mom was admit it was not happening.

                                    I’m gonna try to reach out to my grandmother to give me help. Thanks guys for the support it’s been rough.


                                  • tanlover14
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                                      Keep us updated on whats happening — and what your grandma says. Hopefully she will listen better.

                                      If not, don’t get down on yourself. Just give your bun the best you can while he has to remain outside. Many people DO keep their rabbits outside (even if it’s not what we advocate). And if that’s what you have to do as you do still live with your parents no one will look down on your for it. Just keep pushing and trying. You’ll have us all here to support and help you as you try and figure this out with your family.

                                      Good luck with your grandma, Ashley! Keep your head up. For the sake of your bunny, just keep loving him and trying!


                                    • Baby-Daisy
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                                        Some of the rabbit food they have out there in the world os full of fat, it is procesed, and has no health benifit on a rabbits life. They need healhy vegies and a little bit of fruit each day. Don’t let you spirit down!
                                        PS when I grow up I want to be a animal newtrishnis


                                      • Baby-Daisy
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                                          Sorry about the miss spell!


                                        • AshleyLovesBunnies
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                                            It’s fine, Daisy!  I think that would be a very cool job. I want to be a vet, I’ve wanted that for years!

                                             

                                            Thanks, I’ll try to keep my head up high for the sake of my bun.


                                          • Hazel
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                                              Posted By AshleyLovesBunnies on 01/13/2013 02:44 PM

                                              So, I told her experts know that a bunny lives inside..if we were going by a experts view..my bunny should live indoors…she then kept quiet.

                                              ZING!!!

                                              I’m sorry, but that made me laugh! Good for you.

                                              You can tell her that pellets are mostly just chopped up and pressed bits of hay, so no, they aren’t “all that he needs”. They do however contain important nutrients that they can’t get from hay.

                                              How do they figure he’s too messy? He’s a baby and not neutered, so of course his habits aren’t ideal for now, but they wouldn’t expect a puppy or kitten to be perfect either, right? You did tell her that he will eventually use a litter box and she blew it off, so I guess she doesn’t care to truly listen. You said your dad seemed to want to give you a trial week, maybe talk to him alone and if you can win him over he might be able to convince your mom. Again, with grandma on your side it should be easier.


                                            • AshleyLovesBunnies
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                                                Hazel, talking to my dad alone might be a good point! Thanks! I’ll try that tomorrow before my mother gets home from work. I thought my comeback was a good one, maybe it made her think a bit too.


                                              • AshleyLovesBunnies
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                                                  BTW, I’m gonna take my bunny to the vet with my cat when he goes..and see if little Jingles happens to not be a little boy..haha


                                                • floppybunny123
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                                                    BD, your a genius! how about you tell your parents as soon as possible that your grandmother gave you jingles because you can take the responsibility and that your not a kid anymore.


                                                  • bunnygirl
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                                                      Know what? I had exactly the same issue. We lived in England for 13 years, I was born there and when I was 9 I got my first rabbit. She didn’t exactly have the best care, I will admit. She didn’t get veggies every single day (She got bits of lettuce and carrot every so often) till I was older and I did research. She did however get pellets and hay everyday. She lived to be 5, and was an outdoor bunny. We then moved to Australia, WA, and I was allowed to get another bunny. I knew what a rabbit truly needed then, and I also knew that keeping bunnys indoors is near enough essential. I tried to ask my parents if my bunny could be indoors and this is what they said.
                                                      “no, don’t be silly. It’ll smell and make a mess and be noisy and besides, it’s just a rabbit?”
                                                      I said “Well it won’t smell, ill keep the cage clean and vacuum the areas around the cage so it won’t be messy. It’s not ‘just a rabbit’ they provide companionship, and you truly see their personality when they’re always in your sight. Also, if we learn his everyday antics, we’ll be able to catch illness right in the bud because we’ll be able to see when he doesn’t run straight for his freshly filled pellet bowl.”
                                                      The answer was still no for a while, and I was exasperated. I made booklets and veggie sheets, I planned out everything I needed and I still kept reasoning! More reasons came out – e.g: we were outside in the garden, it was boiling! My mum had agreed to letting my bunny stay inside, as long as I kept my promise about keeping the area clean, it was my dad that was an issue. But anyway, my dad kept moaning that it was so warm and he needed to go inside where it was cooler. I said “Well dad, if my bunny stays outside, he won’t have the option to come indoors, he’ll be stuck in the heat with a fut coat on!” He was quiet and didn’t reply (Which is unusual for my dad!” And then the next day, at dinner time, we all sat around the table eating and that’s when they finally said to me “Ok. Your bunny can stay indoors. But if you don’t keep your promises then he’s going straight outside ok?” And now, they love my Apollo as much as me! And if I ask if we can just carry his cage outside so he can get some fresh air for a while, they say “Are you sure it’s not too hot for him?” In all seriousness!

                                                      You can do it, if I can, you can!


                                                    • RabbitPam
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                                                        Ashley, I don’t know if you gave us a link to your PP presentation that I missed, or just told us about it. But I just want to say that I am truly disappointed in your parents for their reaction to your creative effort and well planned argument to provide the best possible home for your bunny. I don’t think they realize at all how very talented and special you are to even created something that sophisticated to make your point. That is a talent, and while I know kids have been shown PowerPoint in schools in recent years, it is not a common skill and should be seen as a very smart, creative and precocious project by you. You should be supported and encouraged when you do something like that. Please remember that there are other adults in your life, here, now, your Grandmother and in future years, who will see you as special and will support you in your efforts. So, try to get your grandmother to back you up on this, but also try to remember that you are a unique person who sees things differently from your parents at times. I just hope that you hold onto knowing that you see things in an intelligent and creative way, with compassion for other creatures. Do not learn to laugh at someone because they do. Learn to be patient with them because they haven’t learned to be kind as soon as you have.


                                                      • Isabelle
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                                                          I didn’t fully get to read everyone’s post up to now, so forgive me if this is repeated, but is possible to ask your parents if you could keep him indoors in just a certain area of the house? It usually isn’t too hard to keep a bunny upstairs or downstairs, or in a small wing of rooms. Or just your bedroom, if you can periodically set up an x-pen in a larger room for exercise. Would they maybe agree to that? At least ask them to let the bunny come inside on a trial basis to prove to them that he can be clean and you will take care of any messes he does make. They might be more agreeable to trying it, versus you trying to make them agree permanently at first. You could also maybe ask them to look around the forums to become more educated on rabbit care and housing to see the importance of it Good luck, I really hope your bunny can come in with you!


                                                        • kamdynandsunshinesmom
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                                                            Isabelle I think that is a great idea. Ashley both of my bunnies live in my bedroom. Maybe asking your parents if you can keep the bunny in your bedroom might be a good option. Tell your parents you will keep up with the bunny you will keep your room clean. I am sure on how big your room is but you could bunny proof it and let him out of his cage for play. Also tell your parents he will only stay in your bedroom and not go anywhere in the house. They might agree to that! Good Luck I will keep praying they say yes!


                                                          • AshleyLovesBunnies
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                                                              I’ve tried it all. They keep saying no. I’ve offered my room, everything. What I dont get is..that he can come in for 4-8 hours..but can’t live in here? Why? Uhh..He can stay in a round pin with a litter box..and food and water..I wish they would just let him. He does come in for atleast 2 hours on school nights…and longer on the weekends. He comes in atleast 8 hours on the weekeneds.


                                                            • Hazel
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                                                                Have you tried your dad again about the trial week?


                                                              • AshleyLovesBunnies
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                                                                  Yes, Hazel. He told me that he’s tired of hearing about it. Next friday I am going to my grandmothers house…So..I’m gonna talk with her in person.


                                                                • Hazel
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                                                                    Aww, I’m sorry. I was hoping he might be swayed.
                                                                    Their attitude about all this is very unfortunate and disappointing. Maybe you’ll get somewhere with your grandma.

                                                                    Also, you mentioned that you’ll be taking him to the vet sometime soon. If he’s rabbit savvy he might be able to have a talk with your parents about all this when you go there. Although you would probably wanna talk to the vet on the phone first and make sure he knows what he’s talking about, or he might turn out to be clueless and actually tell your parents that keeping the bunny outside is fine…

                                                                    Don’t give up! We’re all here for you


                                                                  • AshleyLovesBunnies
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                                                                      BTW, next Friday I was thinking about spending the night there and bringing Jingles with me so he can spend the day and nigt inside her hosue! (He loves cars)


                                                                    • IsabellaRobyn
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                                                                        I really hate this. I can’t believe your parents would react like that. It’s so horrible to laugh at someone who is trying desperately for something they believe in. As rabbit pam said, please don’t learn from their ignorance. You’re very brave to be doing what you are doing. It’s difficult when your parents are against you and there is just nothing you can do about it.

                                                                        I’m only eighteen but I’m assuming you’re quite a bit younger than I am. My mum had the same issue when I asked if I could get a rabbit because I knew if it wasn’t inside I wouldn’t want one at all. She laughed at me and told me I was ridiculous and it would never happen and that nobody keeps their rabbit indoors. Because I’m eighteen I just told her I was going to move out and get one and when I started showing her flats I was looking at she panicked (because she didn’t want me to leave and thought I had been bluffing before) and let me get Belle. Now she’s the one that tells people they are idiots for keeping their bunny outside! It’s funny how the way the majority of people view a subject can influence people’s minds. You just need to find a gap where you can negotiate for your bunny to come inside and then your parents will realise how wrong they are and will eventually accept the idea that rabbits should be kept as indoor pets.

                                                                        I can’t remember if you mentioned or not, but do you have cats? If you do you should ask your mum what is so different about having a cat in the house as they have the potential to be just as messy as rabbits. It’s all in the training with any animal you have. A way I’ve found that gets people’s attention is when Belle does a trick like a dog would. I’ve taught her to go up on her back legs, spin around and do kisses. I know it is a bit of a long shot but if you taught your bun tricks your mum and dad might stop viewing your bun as such an object and more like a pet and realise that your bun can be trained just like cats and dogs are.


                                                                      • AshleyLovesBunnies
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                                                                          That’s a good idea! How did you get your bun to do kisses? It sounds so adorable. Jingles is actually in at the moment and he’s floped in his hiding place! haha. Yeah, I would tell you my age but it’s against the rules, sorry. I wish I was 18 so I could threaten to move out.


                                                                        • IsabellaRobyn
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                                                                            Yeah I noticed you hadn’t said your age so I assumed you were younger !

                                                                            Haha I hold a treat in my hand and hold it kind of near my face, then I say “Belle, kisses” and I bend my head down and she goes up on her back legs and puts her nose on my mouth then I give her the treat. I think because she already knew how to go up on her back legs she got it really quickly.


                                                                          • AshleyLovesBunnies
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                                                                              My little Jingles likes to eat his carrots on his hind legs..I think I can do that. Thanks. C;


                                                                            • AshleyLovesBunnies
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                                                                                Also, you mentioned that you’ll be taking him to the vet sometime soon. If he’s rabbit savvy he might be able to have a talk with your parents about all this when you go there. Although you would probably wanna talk to the vet on the phone first and make sure he knows what he’s talking about, or he might turn out to be clueless and actually tell your parents that keeping the bunny outside is fine…
                                                                                ___________________________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                Yes, he will be going to the vet here shortly. I know that my doctor is rabbit savvy, so hopefully he’ll throw his input in.


                                                                              • Hazel
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                                                                                  We can also start thinking about ways to make the idea of him living outside unattractive to your parents. For example, you could try to estimate the annual cost for air conditioning and heat for Jingle’s shed. That might make them think about it differently.


                                                                                • AshleyLovesBunnies
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                                                                                    I’ve got an idea. Maybe if I can get letters from ya’ll stating why rabbits should live indoors..and how much less it would cost..that would get their mind spinning. That way it’s not just me that has been telling them all this..but other people too.

                                                                                    On the other hand, I just sent my vet a email and asked him some important questions to see how much he knows about rabbit care. If he answers any of them wrong i’ll aquire a new vet.


                                                                                  • Snowytoshi
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                                                                                      If you think that may work I’d be happy to contribute a letter Just let me know!


                                                                                    • LBJ10
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                                                                                        Is your mom a clean freak? I have known people like that. But if you have cats, I can’t imagine how a rabbit would be different. I mean, there’s cat hair and litter and cats tend to throw up hairballs. LOL The only problem I have ever had was keeping up with the hay bits that my rabbits like to string all over the place.


                                                                                      • bunnygirl
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                                                                                          Id happily contribute a letter Ashley! Just give me a private message if you would like me too C’mon, we can win over your parents, keep your head high and your spirits higher!


                                                                                        • floppybunny123
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                                                                                            your first post made me want to cry so I’d be more than happy to help! just PM me


                                                                                          • Helenecat
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                                                                                              I’m so sorry to hear! Of course I can write a letter
                                                                                              I’m Norwegian, so my English is not very good – but I’ll of course try my best


                                                                                            • IsabellaRobyn
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                                                                                                You could also show your parents this site and even this thread?


                                                                                              • Svandis
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                                                                                                  Hey! I haven’t been on here so I just read this whole post. I’m so sorry your parents reacted that way. I got two rabbits when I was eighteen, and my parents wouldn’t let me keep them inside. When I was moving out to go to school, I searched for a flat that would allow me to keep a pet indoors. I moved out, spent a lot of my savings on them, got nic cubes that cost a lot of money to get to Norway, got them neutered (sadly one of the buns didn’t survive the anesthesia), and bunny proofed my apt. My parents thought I was silly for spending all that money on “just a rabbit” and they still act as if I have an unhealthy obsession about rabbits (lol). But now when I visit home they are happy to let him stay indoors with me.
                                                                                                  I just wanted to let you know that you are not the only one with parents who think like that. I would be happy to write a letter for your parents. I’ll just write one and PM it to you good luck!

                                                                                                  Oh and another idea I thought of when reading this post was that what if you wrote them a letter yourself? Explaining how bad they made you feel by laughing at you, how much work you have put into this. i feel like if they read your letter they cant interrupt you and ay no, they have to really listen. Also, you could show them pics of how other members here on BB have set up their indoor habitat. You could also add a few articles explaining why a rabbit should stay inside.


                                                                                                • RabbitPam
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                                                                                                    Posted By AshleyLovesBunnies on 01/14/2013 04:47 PM

                                                                                                    I’ve got an idea. Maybe if I can get letters from ya’ll stating why rabbits should live indoors..and how much less it would cost..that would get their mind spinning. That way it’s not just me that has been telling them all this..but other people too.

                                                                                                    On the other hand, I just sent my vet a email and asked him some important questions to see how much he knows about rabbit care. If he answers any of them wrong i’ll aquire a new vet.

                                                                                                    Ashley, I’m sorry but I really must discourage letters from our members here for a couple of reasons. First, it is a question of our members’ privacy and security, which we strictly maintain due to the openness of this international internet site. It’s for everyone’s protection that we have a Message Center instead of posting our names and email addresses. It’s in the rules section, and I would urge you to read that so you can know about the careful limits BinkyBunny has set up. Some members swap personal information at their own risk and have become friends from here, but the ones I know are adults and do that for friendship, not as a gesture in a letter-writing campaign.

                                                                                                    Second, and possibly more to the point for you, from what you’ve said about them I think your parents would never, ever, be influenced by the opinions of strangers from an internet forum. It would probably have the opposite effect you want. You are much better off with a reasonable argument coming from your Grandmother, and your vet if she can help you. Don’t make a rash decision about your vet, either. Stick with what your parents have already approved of, and build from there. Often, as a family member gets to know and like a bunny, they become more involved, flexible and willing to make things better. 


                                                                                                  • Ava
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                                                                                                      RabbitPam has a good point about the letters. My dad thinks the same way about animals in general and if I were to confront him with letters from strangers on the internet, I know my dad would think I’m ganging up on him…it wouldn’t go well at all.

                                                                                                      However, that said, what Svandis said about *you* writing a letter is a very good idea. You’ll be able to express your feelings without being interrupted for one, and for another you’ll have time to gather and compile all your thoughts. You can either read it to them, or hand it to them to read, depending on how nervous you are or if you get tongue tied. That way, your thoughts are expressed to them even if you can’t talk without crying.

                                                                                                      Also, what I said in the other thread about obeying my parents whether I agreed with them or not…that’s *key*. It’s hard, especially in light of how they reacted at your presentation, however I believe it’ll show maturity and responsibility if you ask them to please hear you out and after you present your case again, tell them you will abide by their wishes, even if it means Jingles has to stay outside. The idea about finding out how much building materials, electricity, etc… for keeping him outside will cost is also a good idea. If you can have your Grandparents on hand with you as you’re talking to your parents, that would be great also, just make sure they’re on your side first! Sometimes it’s easier to talk to one parent at a time, if you can do that, it would be good.

                                                                                                      I hope everything works out for you!


                                                                                                    • IsabellaRobyn
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                                                                                                        I agree with Rabbit Pam on the letter front. My mum would probably be more annoyed if I did that I think.


                                                                                                      • AshleyLovesBunnies
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                                                                                                          Maybe y’all are right. I’m a little surprised…Jingles started biting me when I swept his cage this morning..maybe he was just startled? Idk. We have a ice storm moving in..so if I don’t reply for a few days it may be that the power is out.


                                                                                                        • kamdynandsunshinesmom
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                                                                                                            Some rabbits don’t like you cleaning there cage while there are in it. I always remove my rabbits into a different room while I clean there cage so they can’t see me cleaning there cage they sometimes get mad.


                                                                                                          • kamdynandsunshinesmom
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                                                                                                              Just was wondering how things were going?


                                                                                                            • AshleyLovesBunnies
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                                                                                                                Thanks for checking on us. As for him coming inside..it’s still looks like my parents aren’t gonna let that happen. I do have a few tricks though..I don’t however want them to get too mad at me. Jingles is doing great though, he’s 5.5 pounds now..and loves to binky and flop when he comes into the house. My parents do allow him up in my room…aslong as he stays on the tile in my bathroom…so i’m happy about that.


                                                                                                              • Hazel
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                                                                                                                  Did you have a chance to talk to your grandma about it?


                                                                                                                • StarlightAria13
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                                                                                                                    Hey, I’ve read all the posts here. I hope it is going well for you. Do we have an update yet?


                                                                                                                  • Amys Animals
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                                                                                                                      I just read this whole thread.  This is really upsetting to me.  Can you possibly show your parents information on rabbits?  When I was young and trying to convince my dad for me to get a bunny I had to print out a TON of information…Almost like a book and show it to him.  Maybe if you print out information on rabbit care and housing and show it to them they may see that it is very important for rabbits to be housed inside and to get veggies (noticed your mom thought they didn’t need them).  It sounds to me like your parents are very stubborn in this situation.  If you have cats I honestly could not see the problem with having the bunny come inside. They don’t smell nearly as bad as cats (in my opinion anyways).  I have my rabbits in my room and as long as you keep it clean everything is good.  Doesn’t smell. You may have to pick up hay and stray poops every so often but it’s not difficult.  The House Rabbit Society has some great information on rabbit care and housing.  This site as well.  So maybe you can try that?  I really hope you can get your bunny inside!  

                                                                                                                      Good luck!!

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                                                                                                                  Forum HABITATS AND TOYS How the powerpoint went over with my parents. (trying to get my parents to let my bunny live indoors.)