|
| 08/07/2012 04:06 PM |
|
I have a bunny (6 months old) named Tuxy. He was recently treated for the past 9 days for GI statis. We really don't know what caused this, but nonetheless, I took him immediately upon noticing that he wasn't eating or drinking to the ER vet who immediately gave him SQ fluids and Baytril. The next day, I took him to a rabbit savvy vet, who took blood work and put him on the following routine:
* Metoclopromide (1.1 ml, 3 times a day for 7 days)
* Metacam (.46 ml, once a day when needed for pain)
* Enfrofloxacin (.6 ml, twice a day for 10 days)
* PenicilinG (.6ml, once a day injected into the fluid pocket given after SQ fluids)
* SQ fluids
Today is day 9, and I woke up to him obviously not feeling well. Yesterday he was great. Running around, begging for a piece of fruit (which I did not give), and playing with his cardboard toys.
BTW - regularly his diet is very good. He has access to unlimited hay, both timothy and sweet meadow, and has 3 cups of fresh greens daily. He has both a water bowl and bottle in his cage. He also gets pellets, but only for treats when he is playing. He has free run of the living room for over 4 hours a day.
So today he was super lethargic and wouldn't eat. I immediately gave him Oxbow Critical Care (12ml every 2 hours), and after the first dose he began to eat some Kale, and then some parsley. Throughout the day he has improved upon his eating, but has not yet had any water from his bottle or bowl. I understand that he is getting fluid from the greens, but I am very concerned about his water intake. Should I give him the last 50 ml that I have of the SQ fluids and request more from the vet tomorrow?
I offered him pedialite and he wouldn't drink it, but I have left a bowl of this in his cage as well.
Finally, his poop has improved in shape from oblong to round but is still somewhat sticky and smelly (Cecotrope like). Yesterday, it was almost back to being perfect. Could the last dose of penG given him to get cecal dysbiosis?
One last thing - I did read to give him pumpkin puree, so I gave him less than a tablespoon an hour ago. I am so worried about him, and hope that this was OK.
Can someone please help me, and let me know if what I am doing is OK? I literally will be up all night giving him critical care and worrying. It is horrible.
Thank you so much in advance!!
Tuxy's mom |
|
|
|
|
|
| 08/07/2012 06:40 PM |
|
I have never dealt with gut stasis, but I don't understand the reason for the Baytril? Vet's usually prescribe Baytril for Pasturella. Did they do a fecal float and find bacteria? From what I understand the last thing a bunny needs in gut stasis is an antibiotic. Someone correct me if I am wrong. Did the vet do an xray to determine if there is a blockage? I would also have his teeth checked to make sure there are no tooth issues. Pumpkin puree is fine ... it won't hurt him. |
|
|
|
|
  TBpony414Washington, DC
139 posts  | |
|
| 08/07/2012 09:42 PM |
|
Your notes are very detailed  I'm pretty tired so hope my response makes some sense and can ease your worries. Agree with luvmyhunnybunny, what is the purpose of the Baytril? In my experience, it isn't typically used for stasis. Not sure about the Penn G either... The main thing is to keep your bunny hydrated and eating. Do this however you can - if you have to put a little juice in his water, then so be it. If you are able to give SubQ fluids then do that - whether at home or at the vet. Pumpkin puree - the pure pumpkin, not the canned sugary stuff - is tasty and can help bind things in his digestive tract. It's safe to use! I keep pumpkin on hand for my dogs and rabbit. Refill hay constantly, and gently but firmly rub your bunny's tummy whenever possible. Metoclopromide is an anti-nausea medicine that will help stimulate the upper digestive tract. Cisapride will stimulate the lower digestive tract. Not often used in conjunction with Meltaclopromide. Simethicone will help ease gas. Highly recommend this. It's in the baby section of drug stores, look on the infant drops and on the back of the box the main ingredient is "simethicone" - my 3lb rabbit gets 0.3ml of simethicone twice a day. If your bunny is feeling really sick he can get 0.2ml every 2 hours for 6 hours. Metacam is pain medicine, it can be given twice a day if your rabbit is uncomfortable. Long term use (4+ weeks at a time) can cause damage but for your application, a week or so of using it and you will be totally fine. Sorry you're going through this. Most of us have been there at one time or another. Hope this helps some |
|
|
|
|
|
| 08/07/2012 10:58 PM |
|
My first buns passed due to Stasis and my current buns gets it every time he molts, even with all our precautions. I know this all too well. My first rabbit was put on baytril too, but because she had an underlying sickness causing the stasis. Does the doc think this is the case? It could be the doc is so used to always prescribing it, he/she may not be thinking that it isn't necessary. I have forced fluids in the past via syringe if my buns isn't drinking what I think is enough (which is more during stasis time). I prefer the pedialite, because that gives him fluids and nutrients. I have also added pineapple juice to my buns water to make it tastier. Just make sure you change it often. Belly rubs give us success overnight. This site explains it and other useful treatments for stasis: http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html. Save that site for future reference. A Stasis buns needs lots of love-- he/she is in pain and needs to know you are there for them. However, be careful not to add more trauma by picking them up, going to unnecessary vet visits, etc. When you can, try to think of what may be causing it, to stop the cause and/or prevent it. Mine always gets it when he molts, even if I brush him, feed him papaya and pineapple (both help prevent/treat stasis), etc. So, sometimes, you can't prevent, but at least you know the cause. Is there any change going on around the house? Sounds like construction? Any other sickness symptoms? |
|
|
|
|
|
| 08/07/2012 11:07 PM |
|
Oh, on the simethicone, my rabbit can take .3 to .5 ml, 3 times a day (he is 4.4 lbs). My vet said this stuff is very gentle, so no need to worry about over doing it. As soon as my rabbit acts off, I start that treatment along with belly rubs.
By the way, you sound super on top of this!! What a great rabbit parent! Try to be positive-- I know it is scary, but pets can sense when we are worried. Take a break from him when you need to cry, be upset, etc. Go back friendly and talkative.
Also, the process of getting better has ups and downs, so don't be discouraged by a few set backs. Remain on course with the treatments and be patient. Call your vet often with updates and visit when he/she feels it is necessary. |
|
|
|
|
 Sarita(Dallas)
 Forum Leader 14815 posts | |
|
| 08/08/2012 12:20 AM |
|
I question the pen-g and the baytril - these are both broad spectrum antibiotics and I don't think you need to continue with those.
Don't worry about the water intake at this point. Continue to feed him critical care though until you can get him back on his greens full-time. The slurry will help nourish and hydrate him.
Honestly at this point it sounds like he is on his road to recovery.
DId the vet find anything in his bloodwork? I guess the mystery is why this happened because there is always some underlying cause it's just not always easy to figure out and sometimes you never do - I've had that happen with a few of my rabbits who had stasis episodes quite a bit but did eventually overcome them.
I agree that your diet sounds spot on.
Might be worth to take him into the vet today for a re-examination - maybe look at his teeth and have her palpate his stomach. |
|
|
|
|
 LittlePuffyTailNew Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader 9437 posts | |
|
|
Sarita(Dallas)
Forum Leader 14815 posts | |
|
| 08/08/2012 02:12 AM |
|
I actually question the pen-g more than the baytril...did your vet(s) say why they used either or both? |
|
|
|
|
|
| 08/08/2012 02:22 AM |
|
Thank you so very much for your reply! The Baytril and PenG, I believe we're originally prescribed with the though that a possible abscess could be causing this - after the ER vet bill and exotic animal vet bill, I am reaching $1,000 and can't afford an ultrasound at this time. I feel like the penG could have done a number on his stomach this last round on Sunday, throwing a few steps backwards, but I just dont know. He is done with both of these medications now. Today is day 10 and they ended on day 7. Also, he was knocking on deaths door with a fever of 105.7 at the time that we saw the vet. She is a super high-end exotic specialist, so I think she was just covering every base to try and save his life. After the first day of meds, his fever dropped to 102. Thank goodness!!
The vet checked his teeth and they are great. Bloodwork was normal and lead test was negative. The only stress was a animal care took care of him 3 weekends ago for the weekend, so possible change in environment, but strange after a week had passed for it to hit him like this. Also, there is some painting of our house happening, but it's not tremendously noisy.
So do you think I should continue with critical care feed, fresh veggies, hay hay hay, and some pumpkin? I think I will go to the local vet today to have them help me give him some subQ fluids as well. He hasn't drank out of either bowl or bottle even though I know he is getting some hydration from the feed and fresh veggies. I tried to give him Thr last 50ml that I had left and he jumped into my arms and started to kiss me. I stopped immediately. No more stress for my little guy. We both are on edge. I have been leaving the house once a day to exercise so that I can continue to talk to him, and love on him without crying. It's very hard.
I will have to get simethecote today and continue with belly rubs.
This morning his poop was still pungent and cecotrope like. I am so happy that he's pooping, but how to I improve his stools? I know HAY, but could pumpkin help with this? Also, are there strong opinions out there that I should get subaqueous fluids in him. I don't want to overly stress him.
Thank you all SO MUCH!
I love Tuxy. Xoxo
Love,
Tuxy's mom |
|
|
|
|
Sarita(Dallas)
Forum Leader 14815 posts | |
|
| 08/08/2012 02:38 AM |
|
Okay, so the pen-g and baytril makes sense to me now. And he did have a fever so it sounds like it was definitely a possible infection...
I think you are right on track with the diet and the vet doing more sub-q fluids as well and just a nice overall recheck. I would also continue with the metroclopramide (but do check with the vet on this today when you take him in for a recheck and fluids).
As for the simethicone, it my own opinion, this had nothing at all to do with an episode of gas so while it MAY be helpful in the future, it would not have had any bearing on helping him under these circumstances. I would just ask the vet about the simethicone - it isn't harmful, but it's not a catch all treatment so never ever rely on only this. Also since he was getting a motility drug, I don't see the point in the simethicone.
Hugs to you and more vibes to Tuxy. Please let us know what the vet says today. |
|
|
|
|
|
| 08/08/2012 03:58 AM |
|
My vet is big on fresh pineapple fruit and juice. She said there are enzymes in there that help break up any blockages. My buns loves the taste and takes it great! It is sugar, so don't overdo it. Just a few syringes full a day. Or you can mix it with his water, to encourage more drinking too.
I agree to stay on the critical care, veggies and hay. I have never used pumpkin, but will look into it. I also do not use simethicone if my buns is on gut moving meds too. I use it as soon as he starts acting off, as a preventative. It has helped prevent full-out Stasis before, but not every time (right now we are getting over Stasis too).
Get well Tuxy! Hang in there Tuxy's mom! I know it is hard. You can vent to us. We understand. |
|
|
|
|
|
| 08/08/2012 04:13 AM |
|
I don't have anything else to add but what was already said -- but just wanted to send healing vibes to Tuxy! |
|
|
|
|
|
| 08/08/2012 04:27 AM |
|
Hi again! Do you think it would be a huge mistake to not go see the exotic specialist today? She is 50 min away and twice the price of my local CRT who will help me give subQ fluids for free. I think if I can get some subQ fluids into Tuxy he might perk up a little bit. Thoughts? |
|
|
|
|
 bullrider76543Joplin MO
1220 posts | |
|
| 08/08/2012 04:32 AM |
|
cost shouldn't be the factor, would you see a famly praticioner if you needed heart surgery? I would go with the specialist to make sure that it is not something that your regular vet missed |
|
Rabbits will rule the world!!!!  |
|
|
Sarita(Dallas)
Forum Leader 14815 posts | |
|
| 08/08/2012 04:33 AM |
|
I would see the specialist as well. |
|
|
|
|
|
| 08/08/2012 05:28 AM |
|
I've been seeing the specialist this entire time. I've seen her 4 times in 9 days. I called yesterday to ask a simple question and she wouldn't answer regarding the IV fluids. This really upset me. In addition, my husband told me that we are at our max as far as what we can addord right now. I know all of this stinks. You would still pay $200 for a check-in? |
|
|
|
|
bullrider76543Joplin MO
1220 posts | |
|
| 08/08/2012 05:31 AM |
|
that seems weird that the vet wouldn't give that information. sounds like a poor vet that is only in it for money not for the animal, in that case I would call the regular vet for advice. |
|
| Rabbits will rule the world!!!! |
|
|
Sarita(Dallas)
Forum Leader 14815 posts | |
|
| 08/08/2012 05:34 AM |
|
If that is the case, then probably not...I agree with bullrider, then see your regular vet. I don't understand either why she wouldn't answer if she has been treating him - that makes absolutely no sense to me. |
|
|
|
|
|
| 08/08/2012 06:06 AM |
|
I literally called to ask if I should continue him on IV and the receptionist put me on hold and then returned to the call and said 'the vet sai he should really be seen.'. This is after I have paid a ridiculous amount of money to them. It broke my heart. When I called the local vet, who is familiar with rabbits (he actually neutered Tuxy, but in the emergency situation when I pages him he was honest and said that I needed to seek care that he couldn't provide), they provided me with a free IV bag and replacement needles. They other place charged me for every single 0.10$ needle and a $3 bag of solution. I know that money is money, but this is really out of hand.
However, now that this morning has been sort of touch and go:
Tuxy ate 3 rounds of critical care and refused veggies. He only has grazed SUPER lightly on some hay.
SO now I am nervous and may take one last hour long ride with a stressout bunny to see these unkind, but rabbit savvy vets.
These decisions are very difficult. If money and hard feelings weren't a factor, it wouldn't really be an issue but I've literally had it. NOT Telling Tuxy this though - nothing but smiles and love for the handsome man!
Thank you all SO SO much for sending me feedback. I could obviously really use it!!
Xoxo
Tuxy's mom |
|
|
|
|
bullrider76543Joplin MO
1220 posts | |
|
| 08/08/2012 06:16 AM |
|
wish you the best of luck and sending (((((((healing vibes)))))))) |
|
| Rabbits will rule the world!!!! |
|
|
Sarita(Dallas)
Forum Leader 14815 posts | |
|
| 08/08/2012 06:30 AM |
|
Please keep us updated and healing vibes from me as well. |
|
|
|
|
|
| 08/08/2012 06:49 AM |
|
I'm heading to the exotic specialist for a final Checkup and with a LONG LIST of questions. Enough is enough. Thank you all so much for the love and support! WE BOTH need it  Xo |
|
|
|
|
bullrider76543Joplin MO
1220 posts | |
|
| 08/08/2012 06:52 AM |
|
we will be waiting for an update!! |
|
| Rabbits will rule the world!!!! |
|
|
|
| 08/08/2012 07:43 AM |
|
(((healing vibes and hugs))) |
|
|
|
|
|
| 08/08/2012 10:43 AM |
|
Well we are back from the vet, and 200 something dollars later we have a script for 30-days of Metoclopromide (1.1 ml, 3 times a day). The vet confirmed that Tuxy had a small bout of cecal dysbiosis, but the good news is that his temp was perfect (102, and he was obviously a little stressed so this is great!), and that he will no longer need any antibiotics (which caused this condition). She felt that he still is dealing with some GI Stasis, so the Metoclopromide should help with this. They also took his blood, and the initial test came back all normal and actually much better than the blood work that was taken 10 days ago. We will get the CBC results tomorrow so fingers crossed for that. While we were there, Tuxy got some SQ fluids, but the vet did not feel that he would need these on a daily basis as long as I was able to keep up with critical care routine that I have been doing, and also offering him plenty of fresh green veggies and unlimited hay. So for now folks, we sit tight and keep on doing what we have been doing. Please keep sending me and Tuxy positive vibes for a full and awesome recovery! I can't tell you how much I miss seeing him binkie around the house - he would literally do this 10-15 times a day!! Happy little dude! xoxo |
|
|
|
|
Sarita(Dallas)
Forum Leader 14815 posts | |
|
| 08/08/2012 10:53 AM |
|
Yes, rabbits can definitely be expensive little creatures! Hopefully all will now be well and he will not have another stasis episode.
I've had a few rabbits who were in stasis for various reasons that lasted for 1 1/2 to 2 weeks and both times almost gave up hope but my vets always pulled them through - they would go in daily to the vet for treatment while I was at work. It was agonizing...so I know how you feel. |
|
|
|
|
bullrider76543Joplin MO
1220 posts | |
|
| 08/08/2012 11:03 AM |
|
I am happy to hear that, heal quickly!! |
|
| Rabbits will rule the world!!!! |
|
|
|
| 08/08/2012 11:03 AM |
|
Oh my gosh!!!! Did that cost a small fortune? I'm seriously curious because I may need to make arrangements to do that if this happens again. Right now, I'm on vacation (really nice VACA! ), but anything for Mr. TUXY!! |
|
|
|
|
Sarita(Dallas)
Forum Leader 14815 posts | |
|
| 08/08/2012 11:18 AM |
|
It did cost a small fortune and if I was at home I would have done the fluids and feedings myself but since I work, I really couldn't.
Actually most of my rabbits have cost me a small fortune...I get stuck with the ones with dental problems, etc...I have three 10 year old rabbits right now and one that is about 4 years old. One of my 10 year old rabbits has been having dental problems for the past year and my 4 year old one came with dental problems and that is pricey too. |
|
|
|
|
|
| 08/08/2012 11:45 AM |
|
Keep us updated! Get well Tuxy!! |
|
|
|
|