Hi everyone:

 

Carbun may be sick.  He didn't seem to be too interested in their dinner pellets last night, although he did take raisins and parsley offered to him.  He is grinding his teeth a bit, and seems to be breathing harder--it's much more noticeable across his body.  He also seems more listless and holding his head up a lot more than normal.  And this morning, he wouldn't eat his slice of breakfast banana, although he'll still happily take raisins.

 

Our normal vet is open Saturdays but not today, as it's the start of a long weekend up here.  However, we have an appointment with another rabbit-savvy vet on the other side of town for early afternoon.  Given Bailey's loss three weeks ago, we're more on the edge than we normally would be.

 

Any thoughts, or suggestions for what we can do until we can see the vet?  He is out right now and is acting more or less normally, although he's holding his head up more than normal and is still not interested in his banana.

Vibes for Carbun, please let us know what the vet says.

It's so hard to know what could be wrong because at this point it may be anything. Does make me wonder though about teeth or nasal problems.

Yes, I'm wondering if it is respiratory at all. I wouldn't push the banana. Is he interested in hay at all? How are his poos? I think you can just wait to see what the vet today says.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{Healing vibes, Carbun}}}}}}}}}}}}}

(((Healing vibes)))

I'm sorry! I'm not sure either. I'm curious as to what it is.

Annette here. It looks like it's basically congestive heart failure. I'll post a pic of his Xray in a little bit. It showed that his heart is enlarged and there was a lot of fluid in paricularly his left lung, which resulted in there being very little space for his windpipe and as such was having to work quite hard just to breath. They gave him a shot of what I'm guessing was furosemide (he's got 2 meds but I think that's the one she gave him then) to try and relieve the pressure and then had us stay there for a while so they could check on him. His breathing and heartrate came down to pretty much normal and he was much perkier. So now we've got some of that to give him 2-3 times a day, and some vetmedin, and he goes back in on Tuesday to be poked and prodded and Xrayed again.

Long term prognosis of course isn't good, there's no cure for congestive heart failure, but we can hopefully keep it under control and help him have a longer and happier life. We just have to see how he does through the weekend.
- Annette

Oh Annette & Scooter - I'm so sorry to hear this - it is unfortunately not a good prognosis and I'm sad to hear this. It does make sense what you say about him holding his head up - he is trying to breathe. I'm sad to say I've been through this a few times with my own rabbits and with some friend's rabbits and I hope that you can give him so relief. I am under the impression after dealing with this so many times that it just seems to be typical for our sweet rabbits.

I'm guessing fuorsemide is Lasix - is that correct? I do know of a guinea pig who has been on this long term and I do know of some rabbits that this has been used on. I understand he will urinate quite a bit with this particular drug.

I think you may find that he is going to tire so very easily as you can expect.

Please keep us updated on his progress - I truly believe that heart failure seems to be very common in rabbits since I've seen it too many times and it's quite difficult to catch. I think because our rabbits, unlike dogs, are usually pretty relaxed and slow going compared to dogs. At least this is what my vets have all told me concering heart problems with rabbits.

I'm so sorry!! Hugs and prayers your way!

I don't know anything about that in rabbits. My grandma's cat did have the same thing-- The cat still outlived grandma and is still going, thanks to meds. She is very happy, albeit tired and takes naps-- not sure how much of that is just being a cat

I'm so very sorry to hear about Carbun.

Many thoughts and prayers being sent your way. (((((Carbun))))))

Im so sorry to hear this about little Carbun. Many {{{vibes}}} coming your way.

I suppose having a diagnosis and plan to manage is better then not knowing at all, so I hope you are able to keep him comfortable on this regime.

Is congestive heart failure age related?

I'm just getting back to BB today and am so sorry to read about Carbun's diagnosis. You guys are going through such a tough time with your bunnies this year. I agree with the others that having a treatment for him and a proper diagnosis means he will have some relief and a good quality of life with you. It's very upsetting though.
{{{{{{{{{{{Healing vibes, Carbun}}}}}}}}}}}}

Sorry to be so long updating!   Thank you all for your positive vibes and wishes, I'm sure it's helping!  Sarita, yes it's Lasix - sorry I couldn't remember the name of it and it's just got the other on the label.   And yes it is good to know what's going on so we can try and keep it under control, and I'm so glad that we caught it at this point!

We took him back in on Tuesday for a checkover and to have more Xrays taken.  His heart rate was down from the weekend (although still higher than she'd like) and his Xray looked a lot better and the fluid seems to have cleared up.  So we've gone from giving him .5 of the diuretic  3x a day to 2x a day, and then in 2 weeks it drops down to .3 2x a day.  And the Lasix twice a day from now on.

Here's his Xray from Saturday.  You can see on the right there's a dark area - that the air that's supposed to be there.  There should be a similar area on the left and there's just not.  Or rather wasn't, there is now thanks to the meds.  And they managed to screw up the last name

 

Annette

I'm glad he seems to be responding to the meds. ((((((Health Vibes for Carbun)))))))

Thanks for showing the Xray pics. I find them so interesting.

That's great he is responding to the meds! Thanks so much for the update.

I think heart problems are more prevalent in rabbits than we think. I've had a few rabbits and known of a few rabbits who had enlarged hearts. My first rabbit Bunbun had endocardiosis - which we did not know until he passed and we did a necropsy.

I don't think it's something that comes to mind right away as more people are familiar with dental problems or gut problems.

More vibes to Carbun.

I'm so sorry Annette and Scooter!!

I think your really keen to have caught on so quickly, when I read the initial post it seems his symptoms were so mild! Very astute to know something was up, and just in the nick of time too!

The xray is really neat, thanks for posting.

I'm sending lots of {{Vibes}} your way and thinking about all of you. I may have missed it-is the Lasix oral? Is he being good taking his meds? {{Vibes}} *hugs*

Omg...I'm just seeing this! :'(
I'm so sorry little Carbun is having such problems. But glad to hear it can be managed.
Vibes for Carbun and you.
This has been a terrible year for our bunnies.

Thank you all for your kind words and thoughts. Carbun is responding well to his medicines. He quite likes them, as they come in strawberry flavored syrup and taste good. This is a good thing, since he will be on them for the rest of his life. Fortunately, these particular drugs are fairly cheap. He also loves them because he gets a raisin after each one. The other bunnies love it too, because they know the sound of the raisin box being opened and will demand their share. Tegan in particular will stand up from the top shelf of their condo and stick her head out of it to beg.

Carbun is also eating, and hopping about and more or less acting normally, although both are somewhat less than before. We are keeping a close eye on how much he eats and on his activities. He goes back to the new vet in about a month for a checkup. We've decided to stick with this vet for Carbun, rather than attempt to transfer everything over to our normal vet, since the transfer would be too much trouble and they're already familiar with his case.

It sounds like this is a very good vet for Carbun anyway, since you got such an accurate diagnosis and caught it early. That xray is really interesting, and I can see why there was cause for concern from it.

Don't tell us the correct last name, since we don't allow member's names posted for your protection. Sort of convenient that they messed it up.

{{{{{{{Hugs to Carbun and raisins to the gang}}}}}}}}}}}

I'm so happy he's doing well. I totally understand wanting to keep this vet - that is what I would do as well.

Continued vibes to Carbun.

So Carbun appears to have returned back to normal in terms of behavior. He is occasionally refusing the raisins offered after his medicines. Not because he won't eat them, because he'll happily have them a little later. More because he's a total little brat and is "protesting" being picked up and fed his medicine. He'll sometimes give us a hard time with actually giving him the medicines, even though it tastes good, for apparently the same reason.

Yay!! The meds must be working well, especially if he feels up to protesting. Thanks for the update!! Continued vibes for Carbun!

That's wonderful. Continued vibes to Carbun.

lol how cute! That's Kahlua too, she will not take an appeasement treat ever lol I'm so glad to hear it, because if your getting the rabbitude, things are looking good

Rabbitude is good! Keep it up, Carbun!!!!

ps. Would love to see some pics of Carbun.

Glad to hear he's doing better.

I know I'm in the dog house when my bunny refuses the treat - especially banana. She lays on the guilt.

Some Carbun pictures as requested:

 

 

Carbun enjoying lunch.  Taken a few years ago.

 

 

Carbun and Keelie cuddled up together in their condo.  Aeryn is in the background in the other condo, and Tegan's in the other condo on the floor above.

 A close-up of Keelie and Carbun.  Yes, they've bonded!  Keelie still hates everyone and everybunny else, though.

 

OMG, I forgot how tiny and cute he is!!!! That little face! Keelie is gorgeous too. Thanks for the pics.

He's adorable!

Well, the medications are still holding after 2 1/2 months, but Carbun's condition is slowly starting to deteriorate. Since he was diagnosed with congestive heart failure, he is nowhere as active as he used to be. This is not surprising. He did get an eye infection a couple of weeks ago, so we took him to the vet and he got something to deal with that. The infection's gone now, but he's holding his head up more and more, and it's clear his breathing is more labored.

The vet has said that she can check on him, and maybe recommend upping the medication dose as needed. This has already happened once. We dropped his dose down a few weeks after he was first diagnosed, but then he started having breathing problems, and his dose is back to the original level. However, it's also clear that there's a limit to how much medication he can take. On the short term, we're not sure if he needs to go to the vet soon, and there's nothing we can do until Monday anyway.

He is still eating, although maybe not as enthusiastically all the time as before. He still has some room for raisins and craisins, and still loves getting his head rubbed. But it's also clear that he's on borrowed time, and that may be starting to run out.

I'm sorry to hear these developments.
I wish I could do more but for the moment some (((((((((((((easy breathing and enjoying life))))))))))) vibes are coming your way.

I hope there is more to be done to keep Carbun comfy, but he is a wonderful little bun and has the best mum and dad looking out for him.
((((((((((((((((Huge hugs))))))))))))))) for you.

I'm so sorry about Carbun! I can't imagine how horrible it must be for you, uncertain of how long he's going to live. We are always here for you ScooterandAnnette, feel free to message me, hugs to you, a big kiss and a cuddle to Carbun. He has the best momma, he loves you and knows your doing your best to care for him, he's a fighter. God bless x