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Forum DIET & CARE Oxbow regular pellets and natural science pellets aren’t vegan..

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    • blackfang
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        Recently few seconds ago, I decided to recheck the ingredients of oxbow pellets (adult rabbit pellets and natural science pellets). Vitamin D3 are on the list. 

        I’m vegan and is aware of what is vitamin D3 made of. It’s made of sheep wool. Yes, sheep wool have good amount of vitamin D so that’s why most company used sheep wool for processed food for us and rabbits to eat. But seriously? rabbits eat wool? 

        What’s your thought about this?


      • Monkeybun
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          Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) is produced by ultraviolet irradiation (UV) of its precursor 7-dehydrocholesterol. This molecule occurs naturally in the skin of animals and in milk. Vitamin D3 can be made by exposure of the skin to UV, or by exposing milk directly to UV (one commercial method).


        • blackfang
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            source, please


          • blackfang
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              “What’s The Difference Between Vitamin D2 and Vitamin D3?

              Two different forms of vitamin D are used in supplements and fortified foods. Vitamin D2, also called ergocalciferol, is manufactured through the ultraviolet irradiation of a substance called ergosterol that comes from yeast. Vitamin D2 is vegan.
              Vitamin D3, also called cholecalciferol, is made by the ultraviolet irradiation of a substance derived from sheep’s wool. Some research suggests that vitamin D2 and vitamin D3 are absorbed equally well,9 although other studies suggest that vitamin D3 is better absorbed.10 If you are treated for a vitamin D deficiency, you may find that your health care provider recommends taking a higher dose of vitamin D2 than of vitamin D3 to compensate for possible differences in absorption.2 This is an area of active research that we will continue to follow.”

              http://www.vrg.org/journal/vj2009issue2/2009_issue2_vitamin_d.php


            • Sarita
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                Well, I don’t think any of us actually eat wool. I guess you would have to be a scientist to know this and to even read the label and know what it is.

                What are calcium supplements usually made from?


              • blackfang
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                  about 90 percent of calcium supplements are made from rocks/minerals.

                  http://www.hemorrhoidinformationcen…ainst-you/ 

                  According to some other websites, to be specific, limestone and marble. 


                • Monkeybun
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                    So do you only use synthetic materials then? I thought wool would be fine, as it doesn’t harm the animals at all in obtaining it.


                  • blackfang
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                      Synthetic materials aren’t edible.

                      I’ll have to disagree. Wool may be one of the reasons that cause GI stasis issues due to thickness of wool. Also, rabbits’ digestion tracts aren’t designed to digest any materials from animals such as meat, bones, wool, and feathers.

                      Anyway, I’m thinking to switch my rabbits’ typical diet to hay and fresh food (HAFF) diet. Before I’ll do that, I’ll have to research more to make sure my rabbits will meet all the needs.


                    • LBJ10
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                        The rabbit would not be eating wool. The vitamin D comes from lanolin, so basically sheep sweat. They shear the sheep and the lanolin is extracted from the wool through a process.


                      • Sarita
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                          Sheep sweat – that sounds totally unappetizing….don’t know which would be worse in this case, wool or sweat – ick.


                        • blackfang
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                            Again, sheep sweat is still from animal material.

                            Also, whatever come from wool like lanolin still can cause GI stasis. Just like I mentioned from my previous message.


                          • Sarita
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                              I’m not sure that it can cause GI stasis – I’m not saying that it won’t but stasis is a condition caused by many different factors. I think sweat is different from the actual wool though. I don’t think either are natural in a rabbit’s diet nor a human’s diet either.

                              Things like blockages can come from many different situations – I do have to say that most rabbit experienced vets will say eliminate pellets from rabbits who do continue to have stasis slowdown issues that can cause blockages…that being said, you may be on to something who knows what they really put in these pellets. At least when you feed hay and greens you know what you are feeding. It’s like dog and cat food – you just really don’t know what you are feeding. I think that can be said for all processed foods…

                              I don’t think any of us are designed to digest bones, wool, or feathers – I have to totally agree with that statement.


                            • LBJ10
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                                Honestly, I would be more concerned with vitamin overdose than GI stasis. My guess is that vitamin D3 is used because it is assumed the rabbits eating the food are not being exposed to natural sunlight (UV rays). Natural sunlight is needed to convert vitamin D2 into D3. I’ve looked around and it seems preferable to let rabbits produce vitamin D naturally so their body can use it “as needed”. Then again, there is also evidence that suggests calcium absorption in the intestines is independent from vitamin D in rabbits (which is unlike other animals, which depend on vitamin D for calcium absorption).

                                It is very interesting, but perhaps not for the same reasons as mentioned earlier in this thread. I will have to look into this more.

                                 

                                Also, I don’t think the rabbit would literally be digesting an animal product though. The vitamin D3 is isolated in its purest form.


                              • Sarita
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                                  LBJ that’s interesting…wouldn’t they have to eat alot of pellets to OD on vitamins? The pellet thing overall is not a huge concern to me as my rabbits eat either no pellets or very very little, but it’s always an interesting topic.


                                • LBJ10
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                                    Correct. I wasn’t suggesting that feeding rabbits pellets will cause an overdose. I was just trying to point out that I think vitamin D3 from lanolin most likely has nothing to do with GI stasis. A vitamin overdose would be more of a concern, but again that is highly unlikely to occur. I imagine the amount of vitamin D being added is very small.


                                  • LBJ10
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                                      Okay, so Oxbow has 900IU of vitamin D per kg. Let’s see, 1IU of vitamin D is 0.000000000025kg (or 0.025ug). Wow, so is that like 0.00000225% by weight? Am I doing the math right there? LOL!


                                    • blackfang
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                                        Vitamin D2 convert to D3?

                                        That’s not what I learned from my research.

                                        Vitamin D, D2, D3 are different ways to get vitamin D.

                                        Vitamin D is from natural sunlight
                                        Vitamin D2 is from mushrooms or alage or fortified milk such as flax, coconut, soy, almond, and rice milk.
                                        Vitamin D3 from sheep wool/lanolin.
                                        ——————————–
                                        Anyway, today I took my rabbits to yearly check up. I asked my vet my question about vitamin D. (Do rabbits really need Vitamin D?)

                                        Her answer was, “Rabbits do not depend on vitamin D to regulate their calcium absorption. They tend to absorb all the calcium and pass excess out through urine. Some rabbits are able to do fine on primary hay and fresh produce.”

                                        The only main concern is to maintain rabbits’ weights.


                                      • TH004
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                                          I’ve talked to my vet previously about doing a hay/veggie diet. The thing is, you have to really vary the veggies, to make sure he/she is getting all the nutrients a rabbit needs. My rabbits have always been too picky for that. My rabbit now loves kale, romaine and mint. I’ve tried a lot of other things, but he won’t eat much. He loves sweets, such as carrots and fruits, but that isn’t enough for me to take him off pellets. (He actually picks through salads to take out what he doesn’t want, such as spinach, and puts it on the ground next to the bowl.)

                                           

                                          Oxbow does have the highest fiber content I could find for adult rabbits. It also doesn’t have the added sugars of the foods with treats, so I have chosen to use it. I think it is the best option for us at this time.


                                        • blackfang
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                                            Yes, I’m aware that not every rabbit can live on pellet-free diet. I’m not trying to say live off pellets no matter what. There are some situations that rabbits must have pellets to survive just like your rabbit(s).

                                            My rabbits aren’t picky on any food that I gave them. I just introduced new vegetable last week (mustard green). They didn’t eat all of them yet but it take time for their digestion tracts to handle new food. So, I believe they can handle fine without pellets.

                                            I want to my rabbits to live on healthy diet as I can like getting organic vegetables as I can find. It is closer to wild rabbits’ typical natural diet.

                                            If my future rabbits are picky on vegetables then I’ll go for oxbow pellets which is second best diet.

                                            I just dislike the idea of how companies put some of weird stuff in processed food. We are in “messed-up” world. I don’t want any craps that affect on my rabbits’ health.


                                          • blackfang
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                                              Posted By LBJ10 on 08/03/2012 10:18 AM

                                              Okay, so Oxbow has 900IU of vitamin D per kg. Let’s see, 1IU of vitamin D is 0.000000000025kg (or 0.025ug). Wow, so is that like 0.00000225% by weight? Am I doing the math right there? LOL!

                                              I overlooked your comment. 

                                              If it is true then I guess that would explain why it didn’t affect rabbits’ digestion tracts that much. Still I wouldn’t let my rabbits continue to eat processed food that isn’t really necessary for them. 


                                            • LBJ10
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                                                I think I misread what the article was saying. Both D2 and D3 are precursors for some other active form, but D3 is much more effective in making the conversion to said active form. That’s why humans are supposed to take D3 and not D2. For some reason it looked like they were saying D2 could be converted to D3 in the body.

                                                Hmm, another article I read said that vitamin D3 is better because it mimics the natural way in which animals gain it because it is produced in the skin and then licked off their fur.

                                                But yes, as I said earlier, there is evidence that calcium absorption in rabbits is independent of vitamin D. That would mean that vitamin D supplementation may not be necessary.


                                              • blackfang
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                                                  To compare the same amount of D3 and D2 – yes D3 is better but at the same time, sometimes doctors or companies increase the amount dose of D2 to match the same dose as D3. So basically it’s similar in either way.

                                                  No, humans aren’t supposed to have D3. It can be either D or D2. Cave men in past may or may not know how to gather wool from sheep. But one thing I know for sure is that they don’t know how to extract sheep sweat from wool and eat/lick sweat to get D3.

                                                  Not all animals have ability to get vitamin D from licking their fur. Can rabbit do that?

                                                  I wonder what will happen if rabbits don’t get enough of vitamin D? Some of the websites I looked through mentioned that it may cause rabbits to have less chance of having litters (fertility). So, my female rabbit is spayed so I’m not really that concerned.


                                                • blackfang
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                                                    Also, if you claimed that there’s evidence that calcium absorption in rabbits is independent of vitamin D. Then it is good chance for me to switch to pellet-free diet.

                                                    Now all I have to do research on which vitamin come from which vegetables.

                                                    So, thanks for good discussion


                                                  • LBJ10
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                                                      Your vet seemed to agree with that, didn’t they? I imagine a vet would have the best understanding about how a rabbit’s digestive system works. I don’t think cavemen got D3 from sheep. Humans can make their own D3 with exposure to sunlight. It is part of the argument for how humans evolved lighter skin. If you live in the North, the sun’s rays are not as strong so less pigment would help with producing D3.


                                                    • TH004
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                                                        I agree that most processed foods, when you look at the ingredients, are kind of creepy (for people and pets). It sounds like you can do a pellet-free diet, so I would go for it! I used to try to make my own treats, like rabbit cookies, because I hated all the stuff that is in the store bought stuff. My buns didn’t like them. Maybe I’m not a good cook He now thinks his vitamins and carrots are treats


                                                      • blackfang
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                                                          Just want to clarify something. If human or any animals exposure by sunlight then it is vitamin D.. Not D3.
                                                          Humans cannot produce vitamin D2 or D3.

                                                          D2 and D3 are from food sources.


                                                        • TH004
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                                                            By the way, I’ve had three vets (I’ve moved to different towns over the past 8 years) recommend pellet-free diets if you are willing to work to keep the diet varied with all the nutrients the rabbit needs and if your rabbit will take to it. I have not heard a vet say anything against it. One mailed me a few scholarly articles about it. It is somewhere around here… If I find it, I will try to scan and post it. I hated that my rabbit wouldn’t take to enough veggies to do it.


                                                          • Monkeybun
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                                                              From the mayo clinic: Vitamin D3 is synthesized by humans in the skin when it is exposed to ultraviolet B (UVB) rays from sunlight. Foods may be fortified with vitamin D2 or D3.


                                                            • LBJ10
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                                                                I agree Monkeybun, everything I read said humans produce D3.


                                                              • tobyluv
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                                                                  I wondered if all brands of rabbit pellets include Vitamin D3. I checked Sweet Meadow (I have used their hay and pellets before, but I use Oxbow pellets now). I see Vitamin D listed in the ingredients, but not D3. I’m a vegetarian not a vegan, but I’m not sure if any of the other ingredients in Sweet Meadow pellets are animal derivatives. Here is the link to the ingredient list for Sweet Meadow:

                                                                  http://www.sweetmeadowfarm.com/products/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/all-tim-back-of-bag.pdf


                                                                • LBJ10
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                                                                    They don’t say what kind it is or what the source is. I guess you could ask them.


                                                                  • blackfang
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                                                                      I guess, I’ll have to research more about human produce D3. There are many nutrition science related that i didn’t know just like you mentioned.

                                                                      Tobyluv – Sweat Meadow pellets didn’t included Vitamin D. I checked ingredients.


                                                                    • tobyluv
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                                                                        Nobody – On the third line of the ingredients for Sweet Meadow pellets, it says Vitamin D supplement.


                                                                      • blackfang
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                                                                          Oh, sorry, I overlooked it -_-


                                                                        • tobyluv
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                                                                            It’s easy to overlook words when they all run together so much. I don’t know if the Sweet Meadow people could tell anyone if there is simply Vitamin D in their pellets or if D3 is also included.


                                                                          • LBJ10
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                                                                              tobyluv – They should know what the source of the vitamin D supplement is. Usually when you see “vitamin D supplement”, they are referring to either D2 or D3. By determining the source, you can figure out which it is.


                                                                            • tanlover14
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                                                                                I have to take a large dose of Vitamin D3 every day because my body doesn’t produce enough of it and so I don’t absorb calcium like I should. It should be produced in your body usually (80%) from sunlight but when it isn’t D3 is used from other animals whose bodies have created it due to exposure to sunlight. So humans produce it but when they don’t produce enough you get it from other things that can produce it.


                                                                              • Cupcake the Bunny
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                                                                                  Does it contain sheep meat? No, so it’s okay for bunnies. It’s obviously good for them since bunnies who are feed Oxbow pellets are healthier than those who don’t. Also, it’s not sheep wool, it’s called “Crude Lanolin.”  It helps prevent many diseases including Cancer so it will help your bunnies live a better life.


                                                                                • Beka27
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                                                                                    Cupcake, please don’t bump up old threads (older than a couple months). This thread is from 2012. I’m going to lock this.

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                                                                                Forum DIET & CARE Oxbow regular pellets and natural science pellets aren’t vegan..