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Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A 4YrOld Neutered Bun Suddenly Aggressive/Strange

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    • Dee
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        I’m not sure if this should be in “Behavior”, but I’m more concerned that this is a health issue manifesting itself through behavior, so I posted here. I’m really at my wits end here!!! My very nice BunBun, who has been married for 4 years to his wife, Nelli, has started acting really strange in the past 2 weeks. He has become somewhat aggressive towards Nelli. He started out with humping, then progressed to pulling her fur out with his teeth. He hasn’t humped Nell since they were first together and he was just neutered, and they have never fought. Bun has always been the boss, but never picked on Nell before. So I was thinking it was stress or bladder problems- he’s a sludge bunny- when it was just the humping.

          But now he’s puling her fur out too, and he’s started doing this weird thing where he hops off down the hallway and thumps as he runs. BunBun has never thumped- Nelli was always the nervous thumping bunny. Bun also just seems tense- much more “on alert” than normal.  He is eating, drinking, pooping and peeing fine- not as enthused with his greens as usual, but still eating normally. Usually when he’s ill, he stops eating his pellets first anyway.

          BunBun did have head tilt, presumably from an ear infection,  in late May/early June- resolved with 10 days of Baytril and Metrondazole. I was nervous stopping meds that soon, as I’ve heard that 30+ days of antibiotics are often needed, but he seemed fine afterward. A few times he had his head to the floor, but he does that when looking to be groomed. I did notice him shaking his head sometimes, but not sure if he did that often before- you know how you notice every little thing after they’re sick.

          Anyway, my concern is that the ear infection never went away and has gone into his brain, causing behavioral changes… or that a parasite/virus is affecting his brain/nervous system.  I’m hoping I’m just being my usual parinoid self. It’s just so strange when a nice mellow bunny starts acting like this, so soon after a head tilt episode too. Has anyone heard of bunnies suddenly acting aggressive/nervous at 4 years old?  And what was the reason for it? There have been no other changesin his life- although I’ve been quite sick and inactive from side effects of a medication treatment, and I’m also stressed because my mom has been diagnosed with a very serious illness. But the bunnies are still very well cared for and loved, so I wouldn’t think  that would bother them much.


      • Roberta
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          Have you had him back to the vet for a check up ?


        • Sarita
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            Dee, I’m so sorry about your Mom – sending comforting and healing vibes to both of you.

            Well I think a change in behavior at any age is cause for concern. I think I would go the vet route first especially since Bunbun has had some major medical issues in the past and do a thorough check up on him.


          • Dee
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              Thanks for your replies!

              Hi Roberta- I haven’t taken him to the vet but I will tomorrow- he doesn’t seem sick but there must be some reason for this behavior.

              Hi Sarita- Thank you- we both definitely need comforting & healing vibes right about now! It’s been a shock cuz my mom has always been so healthy, worked 2 jobs, endless energy (way more than me!) then suddenly she ended up in the hospital and from there we found out that she has Stage 4 breast cancer. Thank God there are amazing treatments these days.

              I’m gonna take Bun to the vet tomorrow. I keep putting it off- he will seem to be calming down with Nelli and I think, maybe it was a phase & it’s over. Then he starts again. He isn;t acting like he usually does when he’s sick- normally Bun gets very withdrawn, doesn;t want to be petted and won’t eat much, if at all, if he’s ill. Lately, he’s still affectionate to me and begs for food- he’s just very hyped up and rather bulgy-eyed and even food won’t stop him when he gets after Nell. When he lays down, his ears stick straight up, instead of flattening back like he usually does when he relaxes. It’s like he’s either angry at Nelli or very nervous… I guess we really need to try to rule out any physical illness before anything else. But it’s hard when he has no real physical symptoms of being sick… and my vet isn’t much for doing tests unless he really needs to, so I have a feeling it will be a wasted trip to the vet. What could he do really, other than Xray Bun’s bladder for stones/sludge? I don’t know much about rabbit diagnostics- can bunnies get MRI’s of the brain? My fear is that the ear infection has moved further in to his brain, but can that even happen? Sorry, too many questions! Hopefully I’ll get some answers tomorrow. I actually have another vet, VERY experienced with rabbits & very up on diagnostics, but he’s an hour away. I might call him as well if our regular vet doesn’t seem to have any idea of what to do about this. I can;t bear to think of Bun being uncomfortable, and I also feel terrible for poor Nelli- she is so upset about her beloved hubby picking on her all the time .

              Hopefully I’ll get some answers tomorrow- I’ll let you all know what happens. Thanks!
              Dee


            • Roberta
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                Hi Dee, Given the emotional pressure you are all under he could also be picking up on that. I hope things improve for you and your Mum soon. I know the kind of stress illness both to self and family can cause. My Father is in a nursing home and he is only in his 80’s, he has Body Inclusive Myositis and has no chance of recovery, for the last 19 years they have just worked to slow the decline. He recently signed a Do Not Resuscitate Order, we have not been able to tell my older sister yet as she will fly into her usual rage of denial and only make matters worse. I have seen how my pets react when I am stressed and know that it can alter their behavior even when you are doing your best to keep them from being affected by it.


              • RabbitPam
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                  First, {{{{{{{{Healing vibes to your Mom}}}}}}}}}}.

                  I would definitely take him to the vet since this may even be related to the head tilt and he may not have made a full recovery. Something else might have happened in his weakened state while being treated, so it could be unrelated as well.

                  One thought: can you have Nelli examined too? If she’s a bit ill with something, I wonder if she smells differently and he is detecting that and is bothered by it. I don’t want to cause you additional worry, but it might be helpful to get her a clean bill of health at the same time.


                • Dee
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                    Hi Pam-
                    Thank you for the healing vibes for Mom . She’s feeling much better and has her energy back, so the treatment seems to be working!

                    I just called the vet, waiting for them to call me back. This is the only day I can get them to the vet, so I’m hoping there will be an opening. I’m so glad you mentioned that about Nelli- I was just wondering about that last night, if there’s something wrong with her, Bunny could pick up on it and get upset by it. There’s all sorts of stories about animals sensing illness before humans, and in the wild, animals that are sick often get picked on by others . Fortunately, Nell is spayed (was done @ 4 months before we got her), otherwise I would be worried about reproductive cancer, since that could affect her hormones and in turn, affect Bun’s behavior. So if I can get them both in the carrier, I’m gonna take them both in.
                    I’m curious as to how they will go about diagnosing either of them unless there’s something obvious. I would like an Xray of Bun’s bladder, but I’m not sure what else can be done. I just don’t know if I’ll be satisfied if the vet just looks them over and proclaims them to be fine. There must be a reason for this change, and it’s really making life difficult for poor Nelli.  My husband is being a pain- wants to separate them instead of taking them to the vet. I explained that we must rule out anything physical first, but it’s like trying to talk rocket science to an ape. Doesn’t help that I’m out of work so he’s paying the bills. I like to be the one with the $$- gives me more leverage :p .
                       Anyway, the bunnies are being seen by my local vet at 10:20 tomorrow- I’m gonna go to work late.  I’ll keep you posted! Thanks!


                  • LittlePuffyTail
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                      Good luck at the vet!


                    • Quantum
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                        Here’s hoping the vet can give you some answers! I agree with previous folks that he may be picking up on your stress. It could even be that the meds you’re taking may have altered your body chemistry and now you don’t smell “right”. At least a vet visit will rule out alot. Sending good vibes for you, your Mum and BunBun.


                      • BinkyBunny
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                          I don’t have much more to add to the good advice already given, but I just wanted to say  that my vet once told me if one rabbit has a UTI it can cause the other rabbit to mount more and act differently.  This is when we were trying to figure out why my bunny Jack had been so extra “humpy”.  We did find out out that he had a bladder stone which was causing some discomfort and making him that way. (Though he was a bit like that anyway — just worsened).   


                        • Dee
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                            Hi PuffyTail & BB,
                            Thanks for your replies!

                            Puffy, it’s interesting that you mentioned the medication I’m on perhaps having something to do with Bun’s behavior. I was thinking about that today. These meds have also put me into medical menopause (fine w/ me cuz I’m 43 and ready to be done with that!). But maybe Bun senses the change in hormones and that has him on edge. The receptionist at the vet said that when she was pregnant, her male bunny was awful- but with her, not his bunny wife! Weird thing is, her bun had just gotten over an ear infection too and she was worried about it going into his brain too, the way he was acting so crazy.

                            Sarita, that makes a lot of sense that Jack got extra “humpy” when his stone was bothering him. Maybe it gives them a vague discomfort that they think is an urge to mate. I was thinking that was the case maybe with Bun too. But the vet felt his bladder and said it didn’t feel sludgy or enlarged/tender at all. He didn’t do an Xray though- maybe I should’ve pushed for one . But before, Bun has always had sludge, not stones, and the vets could feel his bladder wasn’t normal. Like I said, this vet is nice but not much for lots of diagnostics.

                            Anyway, the vet examined Bun & Nell, gave Bun some Sub Q’s at my urging in case he was sludgy, and cut their nails. He said both bunnies seem to be healthy- no outward signs of illness. Of course, he said that doesn’t mean there’s not something he can’t see. He warned me on the phone before I came in that he might not have any easy answers. Then he mentioned that two rare possibilities are brain disease or adrenal gland tumors- just what I needed to hear! I guess brain disease would lead to strange behaviors, and if there’s a tumor on the adrenal gland, it causes more testosterone to be produced, therefore making an neutered bunny act unneutered. I really hope it’s not either of those. If anyone has had a bunny with either brain disease or adrenal gland disease, please tell me! I would like to know the symptoms, but I’m gonna research it rather than starting ANOTHER post on here asking about it.
                            After the vet, BunBun was great all day. No humping for hours, just laying with Nell and grooming her like a good boy. Once he attempted to mount, but gave up before I had to intervene. Then, later, he grabbed a mouthful of Nell’s fur and yanked it, so I yelled his name loud and he startled. He stared at me, both ears pointing in different directions, like he was trying to figure out what to do. He ended up laying down with Nell. I was so happy- then, when I gave them their nightly greens, he started going after her again- repeatedly. I picked him up and held him, but he went right back when I released him. Finally he gave up again, and I got him to eat his greens. Then, when Nelli returned to the greens, he went to mount her again. But now when I say,”Bunathon!”- his “bad boy name” lol- he stops and gives me the bulgy white rimmed eye, then either keeps going or gives up. BUT he thinks twice at least! And he only chases her in spurts- not constantly. Nell just bucks him off and hops away- she’s bigger and stronger than him . I wonder if Bun is being possesive of his food and special bed and box- he tends to hump Nell when she sits on the box or in front of their special fan too.
                            I’m thinking, if it was excess testosterone from adrenal tumors, his mounting behavior would be consistent and wouldn’t be affected by a car ride, my scolding, presence of greens or it being night time. And brain disease I would think would cause more widespead odd behavior, not such a specific issue. What do you all think?
                            For now, I’m treating as a behavior problem. If he won’t let her be, I must separate them I suppose, even though nobody gets hurt. I guess it’s a possibility though that there will be a bite or kick injury if this continues. Maybe another car ride will be in order on Saturday, to see if it helps. I did read about this on AllExperts, and that it’s usually just a phase and new bonding techniques can help.
                            If it doesn’t resolve by Monday, I’m calling the other vet an hour away, and getting his opinion and plan of action. I’m not thoroughly satisfied that Bun doesn’t have an underlying medical issue- a physical exam can only tell so much! I’m kinda mad at myself that I didn’t just take them to the far away vet- I spent $150 just to rule a few things out. Grrr. But I guess lots of diagnostics involve ruling out the obvious first. So… there we have it- I’m somewhat encouraged but still not convinced that all is well and Bun is just being a naughty bunny. Sorry for the endless post!


                          • BinkyBunny
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                              I also was on medical menopause at one point (lupron) for 6 months a few years ago, and that did not cause an issue with my bunnies, however, if you are having hot flashes yet (later on) and or it’s causing irritability,  and/or your scent changes a bit due the hormones changing then I can see that as a possibility of causing an affect.  

                              My vet had also mentioned an adrenal gland issue possibility — He was tested for that too. That was fine in our case. I hope it will be in yours too.  He also was susceptible to sludge which can cause discomfort.  But the the palpitation of his bladder did reveal that bladder stone and though we weren’t sure if it was causing it, once he had it removed he was much more settled.  But he had always been a humpy bunny. It’s just how he expressed stress and excitement.  He was a scaredy cat bunny so maybe the nervousness.  He did his humpy routine and tried a few times a night with Vivian but then he’d let it go.  Not like in the beginning — 

                              Here is a video of Jack a month in bonding with Vivian.  We had set up a playground of sorts (great advice from the saveabunny) so that more running around and looking could happen.  This would give Viv a break and wear them out a bit.   That was our hope anyway, but Jack could go on forever, that we still had to give forced breaks. 

                              Ignore the annoying music — At the time it was a reflection of the repetitive annoying bunny mounting going on, but now I just find the music annoying! You can scroll to the 2 minutes mark to get the idea without watching the whole thing if you want to.

                              This was after his surgery – He still tries to mount, but it’s not so urgent. (more of a strategy) – I also had a separate place for Vivian that Jack wouldn’t go. That way she could get away when she really wanted to.
                               

                              If you continue on to watch the next videos afterwards, you’ll see that I got a toy bunny so that Jack could mount that if he wanted to. (I brushed Vivian and then put her scent on the toy bunny by rubbing her fur from the comb on it.
                              Not sure if these bonding tips will help, but the playground, toy bunny, and making sure Vivian had a place to escape from Jack when she wanted was helpful.

                              Good luck and I do hope it’s just a phase.  That definitely can happen to. 


                            • Dee
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                                Hi BB,
                                Thank you for sharing the videos- they are hilarious and very helpful too! I LOVE the captions and the music- it really was perfect for the situation lol. You really have a talent . It was nice to start the day off laughing too- lately I wake up and things are so overwhelming I just feel like going back to sleep. So thank you for that also! And I love your house- you have so much room for the bunnies to hop around. We have only the kitchen, hallway, half bath and living room downstairs for the bunnies- four people crammed into a 5 room house doesn;t leave any “free space”!

                                It was helpful to see another humpy bunny in action to compare it to Bun’s behavior. Jack was definitely all about hopping aboard and getting things done- BunBun is more into climbing all over Nelli, kinda mauling her in a friendly way, then yanking at her fur with his teeth before finally maybe doing a little humping action- but usually Nelli is long gone after the first mouthful of fur gets pulled. It’s sad that she keeps letting him do this, although they’ve been bonded for so long, she still looks to Bun for comfort and affection.
                                I made a “stunt double” of Nelli for Bun, and he grooms it nicely for a minute, but doesn’t hump it. It’s all directed at poor Nelli. I noticed that Bun always seems to have a little urine on his bum when I check him for poopy butt- I wonder if he has a UTI. I’m gonna start him on Baytril today- it can’t hurt since he tolerates it very well. If he doesn’t improve by Tuesday, I’m calling the vet out in Acton. He was really good with diagnosing Bun last time- he even managed to get a sterile urine sample by needle from my old hamster (without a peep from Hammy!). I saw something in an older post here, that a long ride to the vet won’t be nearly as damaging to bunnies as inadequate vet care can be. Very true and I’m taking that advice!

                                Anyway, I’m off to melt down the nasty LIVER flavored pills that the vet gave me for Baytril last time. He wanted me to use a pill popper with Bun- like a fool I said “I’ll try”, then thought it over and sent hubby back to buy liquid meds an hour later. The good thing is that now I have extra meds! But I hate Bun having to deal with liver flavor- seems so mean . I’m gonna call the local vet tomorrow and see if he can have a pharmacy mix up berry flavored Baytril- I know they can do that! I’m NOT bringing Bun back there again just to get Baytril- I’m quite p$ssed off thinking of it now. NO Xrays, urine samples or bloodwork- not even any helpful suggestions but “separate them” and then, at the end, an offer to refer me to an exotics specialist if Bun doesn’t improve. I thought this vet was an experienced bunny vet- he even did Bun’s neuter! I will never get why vets say they “see rabbits” if they really don’t know how to diagnose them. In an emergency, I can understand, but why waste our time and $$ otherwise? Sorry for the rant- just frustrated & mad at myself for not going to the other vet first.
                                Anyway, thanks again, BB! That is so nice that you have all those videos of Jack- he was such a great bunny. They never get to stay as long as we would like, but having memories on film is wonderful .
                                I will keep you posted on how Bun is doing!

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                            Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A 4YrOld Neutered Bun Suddenly Aggressive/Strange