Friday, December 19, 2014 Register
 

Forum

BUNNY 911 - If your rabbit hasn't eaten or pooped in 12-24 hours, call a vet immediately!

Don't have a vet? Check out VET RESOURCES 

The subject of intentional breeding or meat rabbits is prohibited. The answers provided on this board are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet.  It is your responsibility to assess the information being given and seek professional advice/second opinion from your veterinarian and/or qualified behaviorist.

 

LEADERS:  Beka27  BinkyBunny  KokaneeandKahlua LBJ10 LittlePuffyTail  LongEaredLions  MoveDiagonally  RabbitPam   Sarita

 

You must login and be verified to post, reply, and view profiles
BINKYBUNNY FORUMS > DIET & CARE > Bun in GI Stasis not responding to meds
Last Post by LittlePuffyTail at 1/02/2013 2:40 AM (126 Replies)
You are not authorized to post a reply or you have not verified your email address.
Printer Friendly
Page 4 of 7 << < 23456 > >>
Sort:
Author Messages

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
11/02/2012 1:16 PM

He is VERY much a fighter. Stronger than me! Hah! He's numming some hay right now, and after eating some greens, he sh*t the bed with large wet sausage poos. By no means am I assuming we're out of the woods, but I think this is an improvement.


About the teeth - absolutely, I couldn't agree more. The new vet and I had decided that if we can get him *stable* and get his gut working at least favorably - also give him a rest from all the trips - that we will be filing down those molars. He said it is ever so slight, but I want it addressed anyway. When this does happen, I probably will have him mildly sedated, because the trip back is a long one and he is very susceptible to stress. I hope this will help in the longterm. Also the Lactulose regimen that Dana suggested for "megacolon" bunnies, she says I need to talk to the vet about also. (She also mentioned that while people call it megacolon, it actually is not megacolon....it's some genetic issue dealing with how the stem cells that control gut motility developed {or failed to develop} in the womb).


I had also learned that the Cisapride we've been giving him is not optimal. The dose was too low, and the old vet had me emptying Cisapride capsule powder into water, but it is not stable in water for more than a few days, so we had the vet call it in to a compounding pharmacy to give us a 30 day stable supply and it *does* need refrigerated.


Hopefully, all of this stuff we're doing will work in the end..... I am so not ready to let him go over the rainbow so soon in his life. Please keep praying, and I appreciate the support so much here.


User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
11/02/2012 1:57 PM
hmm... I wonder, if he doesn't make any significant improvements over the weekend, I mean other than this random up and down crap, if we should consider having his molars shaved down even tho he is not doing very well....

User is Offline lmais
272 posts Send Private Message
11/02/2012 2:03 PM
Does he get stressed when he goes to the vet? I'm thinking if he doesn't it might be a good idea since he wouldn't need sedation, and even if it stresses him a little bit it may be worth it because it will likely help (at least a little bit) with his appetite. It's the idea of sedation that worries me the most

User is Offline lmais
272 posts Send Private Message
11/02/2012 2:26 PM
P.S. (((((((((((continued vibes))))))))))))))

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
11/02/2012 2:40 PM
typically, yeah, going *anywhere* stresses him out. He's been doing a lot of sleeping today. Deep sleeping even - the twitchy ears and jaw and stuff. I am going to give him this weekend to have a rest from all the vet visits. But I am definitely concerned about the teeth.

If sanding the teeth down causes any kind of pain or anxiety, I'm wary of it, but I want it done one way or the other. I do notice that he likes the softer strands of hay.

dangit, I wish he'd just wake up and start eating and pooping like normal! This morning he was hopping all around the room, ate a bit, yucky pooped, even was chinning things.


This is so up and down.

User is Offline lmais
272 posts Send Private Message
11/02/2012 2:55 PM
Aw the deep sleeping is so cute - if they're like humans than it's probably really good for him because that's when we heal the fastest. Although I like better hearing that he was hopping around And yucky poop is better than no poop at this point, right? Of course normal would be great.

For the teeth my vet said it wouldn't cause Ruby any pain (I took her just on Tuesday). They did say that she struggled a bit because she didn't like the file being stuck in the back of her mouth. They ended up just giving her the Metacam I think just to relax her a little bit. I know it's intended as a painkiller but the vet remembered from last time she was on it about a year ago for an eye infection that it would chill her out for a while.

For travelling do you think it would help if you had someone drive you? That way you can give him a little relaxing massage there and back. That may help with his nerves knowing you're nearby.

The up and down must be so hard Just know all of our thoughts, prayers, and good healing vibes are with you and Boon here on BB.

User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
14999 posts Send Private Message
11/02/2012 10:44 PM

Thanks for the update. We've been worried!
I'm also hopeful for Boon. Now you know there is no blockage must be a huge relief. Are you giving him critical care at all?

This new vet sounds promising. Interesting he did find some molar overgrowth. Though the thinks theyre not bad, they could be enough to cause Boon discomfort. Some rabbits are very sensitive. It's promising he allows the vet to look while awake. I agree with lmais, it might be worth asking if the can file them while he's awake. My vet clinic says theyve done this with some rabbits before. As to when, you probably have to speak to this new vet as to when is appropriate.

The other vet cancelled on the day of your appt?! That would be so so stressful. I'd be tempted to get one of these bobble heads and use it like a voodoo doll * ahem* though that could be bad karma. Quite frankly, good riddance, sounds as if you've found a better vet in the end.
Continued {{{vibes}}}
Whoever says "It's only a rabbit" has obviously never loved a rabbit.

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11924 posts Send Private Message
11/03/2012 2:44 AM
First of all, I'm so glad to hear that Boon is improving!!! I was getting worried about the little guy. He's so lucky to have a Momma like you!

Second of all, I absolutely can't believe that vet!!! What a horrible person to deny you an appointment when your rabbit needs care. Hope Karma gets him!

Of course, I'm by no means an expert, but I would probably wait until Boon is a bit more improved before doing his teeth. When I get Bindi's teeth done, his mouth is quite sore and swollen and he is unwilling to eat for several days. Boon might not be as sensitive, though. Sorry to not remember, but have his teeth been done in the past?

(((((Boon- Time to give your Mom a break, little Man. Feel all better now. )))))))
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
11/03/2012 11:43 AM
Oh yes, he is on Critical Care, but I'm wary of it, because it has less fiber than his pellets! (read on....)
He needs it most esp in these last few days because
1. I know there is not a blockage and
2. I can now feel his spine an ribcage and it's disturbing to me.

But since he is eating little bits of hay and veggies on his own periodically, I only give him 10ml once or twice a day. (he is 3lbs, so if he were not eating at all, according to the instructions he'd need a total of 30ml a day I think).

The problems I'm having with the Critical Care.... I read on some other bunny forum that I'm not a member of, that Critical Care actually has less fiber in it than pellets do! And that it is a "board recommendation for emergencies" and can be given to LIZARDS too....

I looked at the bag, and its min/max fiber is 21% / 26%, as opposed to his oxbow PELLET food which is min 26% / max 29% fiber.....kind of a significant difference there...
....I'm wondering if I shouldn't crush up his pellets and mix those with water instead of the CC?! I'm afraid the CC is gonna get bound up in him and cause another acute blockage since his motility is so slow
Help? Thoughts?

He won't eat his pellets on his own - maybe 4 or 5 pellets at a time, and in general, I've taken his pellets away until he has better motility and appetite. He cannot survive on hay alone and a few veggies. I have to be careful how many veggies I give cause too much sometimes gives him gas.

Also don't know how much CC to give him *at one time* - I usually do 8 or 10ml in the am, and the same at night before bedtime. should I break this up into smaller amounts?
The last thing we need is for him to get bound up again.....any help on this please

As for his teeth.... the vet said he would want to do the filing after his gut gets moving at a "stable" pace again, if that even happens, and also, when he is finished with his antibiotics. But. If Boon's gut doesn't get moving at a stable pace again.... I don't know what to do. Is it possible that it can really take this long to get him going again?

As for today, I'd say it is slightly better than yesterday *so far*, and yesterday was slightly better than the previous day. But hopefully things don't go backwards.

Please let me know your thoughts on this....

User is Offline lmais
272 posts Send Private Message
11/03/2012 12:13 PM
I just found a link for a sort of fibre supplement for rabbits(http://www.vetscriptions.co.uk/PROT...RAB.html). Not to say that I'd trust this company, it looks a little bit sketchy actually, but it may be worth it to check with your vet if this or something similar would help boon on and that you could give him on a regular basis. If you read the description on the page, it does sound too good to be true, but it seems that he may benefit from a similar product if a trustworthy and effective one is out there.

I'm sure another member will have some input on the weight issue. Sorry I can't be much more help on this one. I'm glad it's looking better than yesterday - Keep on fighting Boon! ((((((((((((((((((((Vibes for Boon and Momma)))))))))))))))))))))

User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
14999 posts Send Private Message
11/03/2012 3:53 PM

lmais, the protexin pellets seem popular among uk rabbit owners from what I've seen on uk based forums. I think its more readily there then critical care. I don't know how they compare however. I would think they're similar... Idk

Nova, this GI stasis article offers 2 ways to give pellets. 1 with them broken down with hot water then cooled and "fluffed" up. 2nd method is a pellet slurry.

http://www.mybunny.org/info/gi_stasis.htm

A good article for any rabbit owner to save btw.

Another thing you could try is pure hay pellets if you can find them. This company does straight Timothy ones or some combos of hay.
http://midvalleymillinghaypellets.c...uct-lineup

Or try offer Boon orchard grass or a third cut hay.
Also try plant materials different to his regular veggies. Rose petals and leaves, raspberry leaves, willow, dandelion...
Any of those fresh or dried. Rabbits seem to instinctively know what they need so he might go for something different to the usual offerings.
Whoever says "It's only a rabbit" has obviously never loved a rabbit.

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
11/03/2012 5:57 PM
Yeah, I'm not sure if I can even order from the UK, as I'm in the US :\ it'd be nice, also, if they listed the full ingredient listing on there, but I had no idea that something like that even existed. It'd be very beneficial.

Boon seems quite emaciated at this point; he looks smaller, skin and bones. He plumps up a bit after his nightly fluids or after syringing him water...sigh.

I'm going to look into fluffing up the pellets he already has. The CC just has less fiber in it than his pellets do, and I'm wondering if the fluffy, wet mushy pellets will be better for him.
On the other hand, it may not make him ever want to go back to eating his pellets normally again at all!

He is still currently munching hay periodically (I have both timothy and oat - and a severe allergy to grass, but I'm making exceptions and using gloves/masks at this time), and have been feeding him leafy greens - a little variety here and there but mostly cilantro, escarole and endive. He seems to get very full after eating anything, and his poops are sooooooo sloooooooow. He seems to poop in spurts instead of what used to be normal for him - normal droppings several times per hour not so much now..... Some very large, some very small, but all very wet and yucky....and not very frequent.




If his pooper would just hurry the freaking food through, I am sure he wouldn't get so full so quickly.This all comes down to a motility issue, and I'm not sure what else I can do other than everything I'm doing.


anyhow, gonna look into the other types of grass hays, thank you jerseygirl for the links. I also had no idea buns could eat rose petals - whenever he's out for playtime (which is exhausting to him these days) he keeps finding dried up leaves and nibbles on them from fall and hurricane Sandy blowing them in my house (I live in PA) - I have to promptly take them away from him, but he definitely wants the crunchy stuff.

In general I do think he is doing better but this is THE slowest recovery I've ever experienced in any bun in stasis and I've owned buns since I was 12 (I'm gonna be 26 in about a week).

User is Offline lmais
272 posts Send Private Message
11/03/2012 6:05 PM
I was thinking maybe there is either the same or a similar product available in the US/Canada instead. Maybe your vet could get it for you if he knows of one that works well

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
11/03/2012 6:07 PM
hmm..p.s., reading about the pelleted hay without binding agents...

It's for horses, but I also wonder if he'd be getting proper nutrition by eating those. I mean, he seems to have an appetite for his hay, it's just that he gets full very quickly and his gut is just so hypomotile.

I keep wondering if it's even possible for him to ever regain motility again.......

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
11/03/2012 6:08 PM
Imais, my vets have been pretty unhelpful in general, lol.

I'm gonna research the sh*t out of it though, now that I know it exists.

User is Offline lmais
272 posts Send Private Message
11/03/2012 6:14 PM
My regular vet is calling about something with Ruby within the next few days, she's absolutely amazing, I'd trust anything the woman says. I'll be sure to ask her if she knows of any product like that when we speak, and let you know what she says. I'm in Canada, but at least it's a little closer than the UK!

User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
14999 posts Send Private Message
11/03/2012 8:08 PM

Those hay pellets I only suggest as a way to get fibre into him while in recovery. The fibre length is important so if the hay pellets are over processed and hay milled too fine, it wouldn't be worth it I don't think.
They aren't an outright substitute for pellets but possibly good for rabbits that cannot eat hay.
If you have a good coffee grinder, you could try chop it down at home and add that to a wet pellet mix.  The hay fines at the bottom of a bag wouldn't kill the grinder. Hopefully...

He would have stores within his body of vitamins and minerals to get him by. I'd personally concentrate on weight gain after his gut is functioning better. As he seems to be sensitive, you probably don't want to add rich foods (proteins, carbs) that aid weight gain right now.

I think Sarita has had rabbits take a long time to recover and eat after dental work but they made it. I also know of a lady that kept her rabbit going for 6 years that had a malfunctioning gut. Lots of gut episodes. medicine, dentals, natural foods and heartache but he'd come good again.
Dont think too much about if it's possible. The fact is he is still going. He is eating and pooing some. So just take it day by day. {{{Boon!}}}

Whoever says "It's only a rabbit" has obviously never loved a rabbit.

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11924 posts Send Private Message
11/04/2012 3:16 AM
How is Boon today?

It's possible that he's losing weight due to his teeth needing to be done. That's often a sign that Bindi needs his teeth done.

With regards to your question about the CC, it's recommended to give in 4-6 feedings per day.
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
11/04/2012 10:04 AM
Hey guys, thanks for all this help, I appreciate it a lot.

It's very comforting to hear that a bun with such severe GI problems was able to live for at least 5 or so years. I think Boon would be lucky to live that long. the thing is, is that he goes for weeks, sometimes months without a problem at all and a huge appetite.


So I have some good(ish)? news? But I don't want to speak too soon. For the last 2 days, Boon has been willfully drinking, numming hay and veggies, and getting about 20ml of Critical Care a day along with his med routine, and his poops have been RETURNING TO NORMAL!

In size, color, frequency, etc.

I also did a little at home science experiment last night and found that Critical Care IS best for bunnies with clogged up blockages because it comes out of the syringe with ease, while crushed up pellets actually get clogged within the syringe and the water part of the slurry gets pumped out of the syringe instead of the contents. I very much dislike pellets at this time because of that experiment!

So this morning, I woke up to a nice pile of healthy poops in his litterbox, but his tummy was growling and he was passing a lot of gas, so I gave him his regular simethicone and meds, syringed him with some warm water, and reintroduced a tiny fraction of his normal pellets, thinking perhaps his GI tract is just hungry now and needs the gas pushed thru like his normal diet used to be (just with significantly less pellets this time). I gave him no more than maybe a half teaspoon full. He only ate a few of the pellets, but I offered him a small handful of cilantro and he ate all of that.
Now he's sleeping (kinda deeply) again, but the gurgling stopped.

so he either passed the gas or now it's stuck.

He has timothy and oat hay in his litterbox which he hasn't been wanting anything to do with yet today...... and since the teeny bit of pellets and cilantro, no poops since, and that was about an hour ago.

I hope this re-introduction of the tiny amount of pellets didn't set him back or get blocked up. He was doing SO good! Perhaps they are just taking a while to make it thru his GI, and pushing the gas out for now? Thoughts???

User is Offline tanlover14
3449 posts Send Private Message
11/04/2012 2:30 PM
I'm really happy Boon is feeling better and I'll send lots of vibes that he stays on the right track.

What vet did you go see right outside Pittsburgh (If you don't mind me asking)? I live in Pittsburgh and we take our buns to a vet not far outside of it either!

I can give you the name of my vet, she's always willing to e-mail back and forth with me, so maybe she could help you too if you needed? She's EXTREMELY nice and every time I've had a problem she couldn't solve, she'd reach out to other vets and rabbit care-takers to get their thoughts and opinions. (Mainly with my problem with my bun peeing everywhere!).
 photo f7a948e4-51c5-4191-9c54-d543ef2be477_zps834141e2.png
You are not authorized to post a reply or you have not verified your email address.
Page 4 of 7 << < 23456 > >>

BINKYBUNNY FORUMS > DIET & CARE > Bun in GI Stasis not responding to meds

SaveABunny Rescue
You agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy by using this website.
Copyright 2006-2012 BinkyBunny.com - All Rights Reserved