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Forum BEHAVIOR Litterbox Training and Unaltered Bunny

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    • Hokankai
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         So I FINALLY found the rabbit that will be MY rabbit! I’ll be bringing home a TINY (barely 3lbs if that)1.5 year old Holland lop buck this weekend and need a little advice on litterbox training in my situation. 

        This rabbit was used in a breeding program and he’s used to using his cage as his litterbox and keeping the house clean. He’ll be transfering from a wire-bottom cage to a solid bottom cage (pic below) with a litterbox. How do I train him to use only the litterbox?

        This boy is not altered and won’t be. He is so chill, laid-back, and relaxed that the breeder said neutering him would take out his drive to be active and he would accumulate fat around his middle. Plus he’s going to be the only rabbit.

        So, any ideas? Should I expect spraying? The breeder said he probably wouldn’t, but how do I prevent it from getting everywhere if it happens? 

        The cage:

        And Theodore <3


      • Sarita
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          I have to disagree with the breeder about neutering would make him less active and fat, that is simply not true. I have a 4 year old Netherland who is neutered and he’s very active and he’s not fat.


        • Monkeybun
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            Agree with Sarita. Both my boys are very active, and not fat at all. And both are neutered. Most breeders are very anti-altering, for obvious reasons.


          • Hokankai
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              What would be the benefit of altering him though? He has no aggression and he is so laid back already. She offered to have her “guy” neuter him for me for only $40, so she’s not against altering. She’s just worried that getting rid of his testosterone will lower his already very low activity level. She’s been breeding and showing for over 10 years so I’m not going to doubt that she knows what she’s talking about

              Oh and she didn’t say he would get fat, but that he’d accumulate fat around his intestines. 


            • Sarita
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                I’ve looked over some of your other posts and know you’ve fostered rabbits before and had mentioned in another post that you wanted to alter your rabbits so I’m curious why you would change your mind now.


              • Hokankai
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                  It’s just this particular rabbit. I see altering as a way to correct out of control behavior and preventing unintended babies..but this rabbit has no behaviors that need correcting and I have no other rabbits.

                  What I think I’m going to do is keep him for a couple weeks and then decide. The only real reason I would consider neutering him is if he has a problem with spraying, which I won’t know until I bring him home. I don’t want him to be completely sedentary and he already has a very low activity level. When I met him yesterday he didn’t even move until I put him down on the floor and watched him for a bit…and then the most he did was hop around the corner of the couch and sit there trying to hide from the 2-year-old.


                • Elrohwen
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                    The part about him becoming less active and gaining fat around his intestines isn’t true. I think the decision on whether or not to alter him is up to you. It’s not as much of a health risk to leave males intact, though reproductive cancers can occur. If there is no behavioral reason and you are sure you won’t ever want a friend for him, then it’s your choice not to get him fixed. Personally, I couldn’t live with a rabbit who sprayed knowing that altering him would fix that – a big part of my rabbits getting a lot of time out of their cage is that they are so clean with their litter habits.


                  • Hokankai
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                      I’ve also read that once they start spraying, and after they’ve passed the adolescent stage, that even neutering won’t help with spraying. Does anyone have any contrary experience with this? As in an older rabbit that got neutered and stopped spraying?

                      Again, I think I’m just going to wait and see how he is. The breeder didn’t know how much he sprayed and she said he’s likely not to since I don’t have a doe in the house but I’ll withhold judgement until I get to know him better.


                    • Monkeybun
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                        Boys can and do spray even without other rabbits around. It’s marking their territory, doesn’t have to involve a lady bun


                      • Stickerbunny
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                          Neutering doesn’t decrease activity levels, just hormones … Powder does as many zoomies, binkies and bunny 500s as he ever did. The smell is increased with an unaltered male, as well as possibility of spraying, humping, marking, etc. And if you ever plan to get a second in the future, it is better for him if you do it early. But, there isn’t the health benefit like with females.

                          He may become more active when he’s settled in your home.


                        • Hokankai
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                            Ok thanks! I think I’ll give him two weeks to do his worst and then re-evaluate. I might have the breeder make an apt anyway since they’re usually not scheduled for right away.

                            i just don’t want a lump of a bunny! Haha

                             

                            I still need info on litterbox training and containing spray if he continues to do so. As you can see there are no walls on the cage…just the walls of the room 


                          • Stickerbunny
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                              Litter training for an unaltered is the same as an altered – litter only in the box, put stray poos and urine into it and clean every other area with vinegar to keep the smell away. If he sprays, you can make a liner around the cage out of coroplast or any other bunny safe material so he can’t spray out of the cage.


                            • LittlePuffyTail
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                                He’s really cute! Looks very disapproving though!

                                Make sure to put some hay in his litterbox because that often entices them to use it more.


                              • BinkyBunny
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                                  I think waiting a few weeks is fine — Once you get him home and see how reacts being in a new area you will be able to see what happens and make the decision then if you want to neuter. Since you are open to the idea and understand the reason behind neutering, then really it’s just about making the choice, so it will be up to you.

                                  In regards to your other comment about certain behaviors setting in after a certain age—I have been told by one of my vets that if you wait too long to neuter, some behavior and habits can just end up being ingrained. My NEUTERED bunny, Jack, was a big sprayer, however, he had been bred before I adopted him, and wasn’t neutered until he was 1 1/2 or 2 years old.   And whil  Vivian is not messy in the least, she is very territorial as far as her “tude” goes. She wasn’t spayed until she was estimated about 4 years old. I have NO idea though if these are behaviors “ingrained” because of later neuters or if that is just part of their own personality. There is no way for me to know this for sure but it is something to think about.    

                                  Do you plan on getting him a friend in the future? Even if you spay the gal, having a female around may make him quite challenging so that’s just another thing to consider if you do have plans to get him a friend.

                                  I honestly don’t know about weight gain thing.  My experience has been that after three plus years,(more like around 5 years), bunnies can naturally gain some weight do to less activity in general.  I don’t know though if an older unaltered bunny though would be continually driven by hormones to mate?? (which could possibly make him/her more active in that department). But if that is the case, I am not sure that is the kind of “active” behavior you want just to avoid weight gain. There are other things to keep aging neutered bunnies active.   

                                  Posted By ~KK~ on 02/23/2012 09:14 AM

                                   …. he’s used to using his cage as his litterbox and keeping the house clean. He’ll be transfering from a wire-bottom cage to a solid bottom cage (pic below) with a litterbox. How do I train him to use only the litterbox?

                                  Adding hay, some healthy treats to the box where his litterbox is is a start. Will help lure him in. When he does leave poos or pee outside of his box, soak up the pee with a paper towel, and put a bit of the urine soaked paper towel and put it in his litter box. You may want to do that with

                                  So, any ideas? Should I expect spraying? The breeder said he probably wouldn’t, but how do I prevent it from getting everywhere if it happens? 

                                   

                                  I don’t know of a way to prevent it. But if he is in a pen, and you don’t want it to get passed the cage bars and onto your carpet furniture, you place plastic guards along the sides of the pen. Jack would normally spray Vivian. He really didn’t spray much when he was a solo bunny. He would do it here and there to mark his territory, but then when he got his bunny buddies, he’d spray about two times a week. I knew the area he sprayed the most — by his litterbox, near his food and on his play structures…..oh…and on Vivian. Anything that seemed important to him. Good luck whatever you decide to do.


                                • BinkyBunny
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                                    Posted By Stickerbunny on 02/23/2012 11:12 AM

                                    . The smell is increased with an unaltered male

                                    I completely forgot to mention this part.  This has been true in my experience.  When I was worked (and volunteered) and shelters, you could always smell the unaltered bunny urine.  It seemed to be much more pungent.   Now that may die down after a few weeks once your bunny is settled in.  When a rabbit comes to a new place, like a shelter, with a bunch of new smells, it seems that the unaltered ones have ways of making themselves much more known “scent’ wise.  I don’t know if that would lessen in a few weeks or not,  as normally by then the rabbit was altered, and that pungent urine smell goes away. 

                                    This is not to add pressure— it really isn’t.   It just is to give you more info.   We will be here to help you whatever you decide.  Keep us updated with how he settles in.  


                                  • Hokankai
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                                      Posted By LittlePuffyTail on 02/23/2012 11:39 AM
                                      He’s really cute! Looks very disapproving though!

                                      Make sure to put some hay in his litterbox because that often entices them to use it more.

                                      Doesn’t he?! Haha. I would too if my owner was trying to get me to pose for a picture! She was trying to get him into a show pose but his head is a little low, so she had to keep scooting him into position, fix his head, take her hand away, and take the picture. I’ll be taking LOTS more pics once he’s at my house but he won’t have to sit pretty for me 

                                      Thanks for all the info BB! I have read that they smell stronger when they aren’t fixed, so that’ll definitely be something to take into consideration. Where do I get the plastic guards you speak of? Can I just cut up some cardboard and make a “wall”? I’m planning on making his litterbox (I just cut up a rubbermaid bin. I get a litter pan and a house out of it!) and I’ll just make sure to make the sides higher. 

                                       


                                    • BinkyBunny
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                                        Cardboard might be a temporary solution to just see if he even is spraying. But if you find out he is, then I wouldn’t use cardboard since that would hold the smell, and he could also chew it up. Plus, it would block his ability to see outside of his pen/cage. But if that doesn’t really matters as much, you can use coroplast sheets. You might be able to find them at a craft store?? Otherwise, I don’t’ think that there are plastic card made for this kind of thing (to prevent spray from escaping outside of a pen). It would be more of a makeshift one — something to brainstorm about. Not sure if home depot would have clear rubber mats you could put on the outside of the pen (you don’t want to put them on the inside where your bunny could chew on it.

                                        As far as if he sprays outside of the pen, you will just have to keep a watchful eye.

                                        Regarding the rubbermaid bins — Make sure you sand down any sharp edges. I did that to make a house out of it, but found the edges to be very sharp, so my husband smoothed out the edges.


                                      • Hokankai
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                                          Yeah the edges of mine weren’t sharp at all. I think it was because the plastic of the bin was soft enough to not leave anything sharp. I’ve used the litterbox and the house for all the rabbits with no incident and they don’t like chewing it for some reason.


                                        • Beka27
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                                            Oh my gosh. He is just too dang cute. His smushy face reminds me of a bulldog!


                                          • Stickerbunny
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                                              Cardboard would get soiled fast and hold the smell – I used cardboard on the floor for Stickers for a little while cause she doesn’t like tile, but she started marking it and it reeks when they pee on it. Coroplast can be bought at home depot, or any sign store (tell them what you want it for, they don’t sell to people for making their own signs) usually. There are also plastic rolls sold for BIRD SEED GUARDS, which would work, if you could put it on the outside and they would be clear – just make sure bun doesn’t chew it when out and about.


                                            • Hokankai
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                                                Ok I’ll look into that. If I use cardboard temporarily would that be okay? I just wanna see if he sprays at all, and then I could just throw it away and put a new piece up (we have a lot of cardboard…lol). I like the idea of using something clear though so I can see him. what about the vinyl “fabric” they sell at fabric stores? Like the shower curtain stuff? Maybe I should just wrap the cage in Saran wrap, haha!


                                              • Stickerbunny
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                                                  Yeah, it isn’t going to hurt him to use cardboard. And the vinyl would be fine, as long as it’s away so he can’t get to it through the bars to chew, wouldn’t want bunny to have to try to digest that.


                                                • Beka27
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                                                    I would just use cardboard as a temporary solution to see if he sprays. I’m assuming that if he does spray, you’ll be getting him neutered ASAP (you’re not going to want to clean up after that all the time!), and neutering should stop future spraying, making a clear barrier unnecessary.


                                                  • Hokankai
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                                                       That’s the plan! I contacted the breeder and she said I could just bring him back in a few weeks to be neutered.

                                                      Oh and I  had a few random questions: how long do pellets and hay last? When I fostered Fifi I bought a 10lb bag because I was used to having four rabbits. the food has been opened for about 3 weeks. Is there anything I can do to preserve it and when should I toss it out?


                                                    • Sarita
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                                                        I usually have pellets for months. I think it should be fine as long as it looks fresh. Hay lasts me a long time too as long as it’s kept in a dry place.


                                                      • Hokankai
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                                                          I don’t know how to tell when they don’t look fresh anymore…Do they discolor or just smell like nothing?


                                                        • Sarita
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                                                            I think they would smell moldy. I don’t think your pellets are old enough to be thrown out. I have had one of my bags for at least 6 months if not more. My rabbits don’t eat much pellets usually.


                                                          • Beka27
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                                                              I use one of those airtight storage containers for pellets. Mine fits a 10 pound bag perfectly. I’ve never had issues with pellets going stale or anything. Hay lasts for a long time. I buy the big boxes of Oxbow and they last for months. Hay is already several months old once you get it but it’s meant to be dry and stored for a long time. I just got another box delivered yesterday actually and I’m expecting it to last through the summer.


                                                            • Hokankai
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                                                                Ok good, I really didn’t want to waste all that food. I think i’ll just pour it into a better container to preserve freshness. The hay as well, since the bag was closed. I can’t wait for this stuff to be used up before I go out and by some Oxbow pellets and hay online


                                                              • Hokankai
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                                                                  I pick up Theodore tomorrow and worked on his cage this evening. Here’s what I did!

                                                                  From this:

                                                                  To this!

                                                                  I decided to put cardboard on the left side and the right side, as well as an extra strip of that black mat on the back of the litterpan just in case. Here’s hoping he doesn’t go for the other wall…but it would be easy enough to clean up.

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                                                              Forum BEHAVIOR Litterbox Training and Unaltered Bunny