Whats wrong with her?

[Cheyann]

So a few months ago Maddies back legs were not working very well an she had a very hard time getting around. After a vet visit we were not exactly sure what it was. The vet thought it could be inflamation so we put her on rimadly (sp?) and she started walking normal again. I then weaned her off the meds and she was just fine for a few months but now shes having the same problems but this time shes also moving her eyes rapidly back and forth and moving her head back and forth. Her legs seem to only not work properly when shes moving her head and eyes rapidly, My mom thinks it might be a seizure. Is she right? What else could it be?

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Sounds like a middle ear infection. The eye movement is called nystagmus-convention is that a left-right (or vice versa) is middle/inner ear, and up/down is brain. So the direction can give you a clue-but you must see a vet as soon as possible.
{{Healing Vibes}} Keep us posted!

[Cheyann]

Would that cause her back legs to stop working?
I will make her an appiontment tomorrow.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Ok,two things… middle ear controls balance in that there are three semi circular canals filled with fluid and very fine hairs. So when you move the fluid moves, moving the hair and signalling your brain which way you moved.
In the cerebellum (hindbrain)-the signals from your eyes and the signals from your semicircular canals get put together (and should match, but don’t for example when you are in amovie theatre, not moving but your vision says you are, or on a boat where you are moving but the visual field says you aren’t) and matched to keep you from falling all over. So when our dog had a tumour in her cerebellum, though many symptoms were similar to a middle ear infection, she also had hind end weakness and partial paralysis. Due to where the tumour was. Brain swelling or infection etc in this area could also cause this.

Another thing that could cause hind end weakness would be a slipped disc or swelling, anywhere along the spine, as that could mess up the signal. Some diseases in dogs can cause rear end weakness and paralysis as well, so I would assume perhaps somehting like that could be at work.

horner’s syndrom is really a collection of symptoms, but not a diagnosis so if you hear that -ask for a cause/treatment/prognosis.

My guess is the common middle ear infection, but the rear leg involvement, not sure.

Good luck {{Healing vibes}} I’ll be on tomorrow, I want to hear how things go-thinking of you!

[LBJ10]

It could be a seizure, but I would think an ear problem would be more likely.

[Sarita]

Might be e. cunniculi as well. Most vets will treat for both an ear infection and e. cunniculi.

Did the vet do bloodwork? Did he/she do x-rays?

[Cheyann]

We did do blood work but no x ray. The blood work showed her kidneys were off and I think that was all.
I asked 2 vets about e cunniculi and both said its unlikley. Its not common in my area and the rabbits live indoors. Could it still be possible?
He legs works on and off. She will move her eyes and head rapidly and her back legs would stop working for maybe a couple minutes and then she would stop and be back to normal. Her legs would start to work and she would stop moving her eyes and head back rabidly.

[Sarita]

Many rabbits are carriers of e. cunniculi. I think it’s possible but you cannot know without a titer.

[Cheyann]

Just got back form the vet. The vet thinks its an ear infection so I got baytril and ear drops. The vet also noticed her grinding her teeth so Im going to put her back on the rimadly to help with pain and her back legs.

She is very skinny. I got alfalfa pellets and im going to get critical care. Is there anything else I can give her? She still eats and loves her food. She just eats less.

[BinkyBunny]

One thing I wanted to mention is I am not sure about one area (as in physical location of the country), being more infected than another when it comes to e.cuniculi. This concerns me that your vet said that. My understanding is 1 in 4 domestic rabbits test positive. Though some are only carriers and are never have symptoms. Whether they are indoors or out doesn’t really play a role. It’s more about if a rabbit already has it and can pass it along to another (can happen at birth and or at anytime when the parasite is active in the kidneys and sheds through urine). This is my understanding though and it has been a few years since I have gotten fully updated, so someone jump in and correct me here if I am wrong.

My bunny Bailey had hind leg weakness due to e.cuniculi but she never had the spinning/eye balance issue. So I don’t know if in your case it is related or what is really going on. Xrays may be able to show back issue and a titer will at least show if she was exposed to e.cuniculi, though you have to get another titer level later to compare levels to see what’s really going on. Check out http://www.onthewonk.com as it may have further info regarding this as well. Some vets will choose to treat for ecuniculi just in case to help boost the immune system and keep the parasite at bay.

In the meantime I do hope that it is just an ear infection.

[littlemissflip]

Yeah, EC typically infects the brain, eyes and kidneys. When it infects the brain, it can cause seizures, head tilt, and paralysis/loss of hind limb function, etc. I am not sure whether her kidney levels being “off” are indicative of EC or not, but… if it were me, I’d ask the vets to do an EC titer to get a better sense of whether that might be a factor here.

[Cheyann]

How much are titers and the treatment? I know if varies from vet to vet but I have never had to do titers or treat EC before so Im just looking for a general cost.

[BinkyBunny]

I just looked at my old files and found an old vet bill from 2007 so I’d probably add $10 bucks or so on to this the prices I am going to quote. 2 years ago, I had Jack tested for exposure because he had lived with both two rabbits that had been exposed (Rucy never showed symptoms, while Bailey was the one with hind-leg weakness). Jack tested negative — but if I can at least find an updated invoice that showed the cost of the test, that might be helpful.

The invoice for Bailey is dated May 2007 and back then it cost:

1. Encephalitozon Titer (Titer test) — $51.35
2. Ponazuril $16.08 (which is one of the meds that was used at the time — there are others) If I remember right, I had to get several refills

Maybe someone else has some updated costs.

Of course, depending on your vet, there also may be an Exam fee with the test. It just depends on the circumstances.

Also, just because a bunny may show up with a positive result does not mean that that parasite is invading and the cause of the issues.  It just means your bunny was exposed. Normally a vet will use the results to help determine different possibilities and treat accordingly.  Most vets will want to have another titer done later to compare the titer levels which can sometimes signify if it is active, getting worse or better, or just the same.  It is more for a guideline rather than offering definites.  

I have also had a bunny have an ear infection have symptoms of spinning etc that can be similar to symptoms of e.cuniculi, and in your bunny, I would have thought that would have affected balance and cause instability, but you said that the hind leg weakness started months prior, so that is where I don’t see the relation….unless it was just low grade, and she was feeling a bit dizzy but didn’t show signs until now.  I think it was just the comments  that the vets made “ Its not common in your area and the rabbits live indoors.”   That part doesn’t make sense to me based on what I have known about e.cuniculi. 

 

[Cheyann]

Can I just treat without the titers? Will that harm her? I don’t have a lot of money and I would rather not spend around $100 on a couple of titers if I don’t have to.
I think for now I will keep her in the meds she is on and see if it gets any better. She did that spinning thing a couple times since the vet visit (that I have seen anyway).
She has been eating more. The vet thought maybe she was in pain so she was not eating as much. Maybe the rimadyl made her feel better so shes eating more. Hopefully that and the alfalfa pellets will help her gain weight.

[littlemissflip]

Just looked through my vet receipts, and an EC titer last March was $75. We treated him with Panacur (fenbendazole), and that was only $13 and lasted a long time–we didn’t need many/any refills, and we treated him for ~7 months. We also did a blood chemistry profile (before and after treatment, along with the EC titers) to keep an eye on his liver enzyme levels, which can be elevated by panacur. That was $75 as well.

There are potential side effects to any medicine, so I’m not sure if your vet would be willing to administer meds without the titers and bloodwork or not. Possibly if she doesn’t respond to the current treatment, they would be willing to go that route?

I hope Maddie continues to improve!

[Cheyann]

Thanks. I will see if the current meds help. If they don’t I will talk to the vet and see if I can do meds for EC without a titer or maybe at my vet its cheaper.

[BinkyBunny]

Some vets will treat before the titer results are even in IF they suspect e.cuniculi could be part of the issue. Like littlemissflip said there can be side affects to any medicine, and you can go over those with your vet. Though I don’t recall anything serious with the e.c treatments I have had to use, as before the Ponazuril, I did use fenbendazole. But again, discuss with your vet.

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