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Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Molar spurs/possible GI stasis?

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    • Molzy
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        Hello all!

        Well, I want to start this off by saying that I just spent 3 hours at the emergency vet, so this is not currently an “emergency”. When I got home this afternoon I found Riley, my 5-year-old neutered male, hunched up grinding his teeth in pain. I put him in his carrier and called the local emergency clinic while I drove to let them know I was on my way. Luckily my local emergency clinic is a university vet hospital, and the small animal “specialist” was in the building (though I don’t know how much she really knew, and she wasn’t the doctor assigned to my case).

        When I got there they took Riley in back to check him over, and then asked to put him under slight anesthesia to check his teeth. They found pretty severe molar spurs with lacerations on his tongue/cheeks, so they then filed/cut off the spurs. He has also lost some weight. They sent me home with metacam (pain meds) for a week, and critical care. They also gave him sub-q fluids while he was there, and an injection of metacam for the evening.

        We’ve been home for about 2 hours now, and Riley is still pretty lethargic. I just got him to eat maybe 5-10ccs of critical care (he is 2.5 pounds I think for reference), which he seems to enjoy. I also massaged his stomach and lifted his hind legs as I had read that this can help with GI stasis (the vet didn’t say anything about this, but when I got home I read that molar spurs often lead to this, so I am worried considering his sudden onset of pain). I also cleaned his litterbox so that I can monitor for fecals.

        What else should I be doing? What signs should I look for? Like I said, he continues to be lethargic and sits wherever I place him in his cage, but he did struggle away from me after he’d had enough critical care and hop across the floor a ways.

        There are no “exotic” vets in my town sadly or I would be taking him in tomorrow. I also don’t want to overly stress him, as I am reading that you shouldn’t take them to the vet too often when they are going through a possible stasis.

        He is no longer hunched in pain and isn’t grinding his teeth, though I think he is gumming a little bit feeling his new teeth or something, I can’t hear any grinding,

        Any other suggestions?

        Thanks. I am so worred about my little baby, he has never been sick before.

        Molly and Riley


      • Sarita
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          Molar spurs absolutely can cause a rabbit to stop eating and go into stasis. Continue with the pain meds and hand feeding – it could take a few days to get him back to eating on his own.

          I don’t agree about not taking him to the vet – they can give him fluids and pain meds and also give him some gut motility drugs which may be a good idea. When I do tooth trims on some of my rabbits I will do the motility drugs and pain meds for a few days until I see them eating on their own.

          Vibes for Riley and please keep us updated.


        • Molzy
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            Thanks Sarita!

            He ate some of the greens I gave him last night, but still hasn’t passed any fecals. In the middle of the night he was active, but I am wondering if this was possibly pain? This morning he is again sitting in one spot, though still not hunched over or grinding teeth like yesterday. I just massaged his belly again. I don’t think he has eaten any hay since I got him home. And to be honest, I am not sure when the last time he ate hay was – I have been at a conference all week, and away from home 16+ hours a day, which is very atypical. I know he ate greens Monday morning.

            Molly


          • Sarita
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              Usually they will eat greens first, then hay, then pellets when they are recovering. I would encourage more fresh greens until he gets his appetite back. It could be too that the lacerations aren’t yet healed on his mouth and the hay is uncomfortable to eat.

              I would ask your vet about giving him reglan (gut motility) along with the pain meds and critical care.


            • Molzy
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                Thanks Sarita,

                I just got off the phone with the clinic, and they told me to wait until the afternoon for his Metacam today since he had the injection yesterday evening. I got him to eat a little more critical care this morning, and he is a little more active, though obviously still in pain. Right now he is sniffing at another pile of greens, but not diving into it like he usually is.

                He does freak out if I touch his head, so I think he still has a lot of pain from the tooth grinding? He let me massage his tummy and lift his hind quarters to get the gases flowing. Nothing feels hard, so my fingers are crossed. I just wish he’d eat.

                I have to run to work for a couple of hours to man a fundraising booth, but I will come back and check on him between that and my class this afternoon. I think it might be good that I have to leave for a little while so that I’m  not hovering over him constantly! 


              • Molzy
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                  Just heard a couple of crunches of him eating greens, and my stomach literally did flip-flops of joy.

                  Fingers crossed that it continues and he gets something in him to get his system going.


                • Elrohwen
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                    It’s hard to say if he’s in stasis – after Hannah had her teeth done (and they weren’t even as bad as you describe) she didn’t eat for 3 days and all I could do was critical care. She wasn’t in stasis, she was just in pain and didn’t want to eat. Since he’s started eating again I would guess it’s probably the same for him – just supplement with CC if he’s not eating much and it will keep his tummy moving until he feels better.


                  • Sarita
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                      I would say too that sometimes when a rabbit is in stasis, they aren’t necessarily in pain and will act normal. My rabbit Pepe was like that. It was weird because I had always heard that they will act in pain, and that’s not true. They just won’t eat or eat very little.


                    • Molzy
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                        Thanks Elrohwen, that makes me feel better. I just ran home from work for lunch and got him to eat about 10 more ml of critical care and gave him his dose of Metacam. I think he’s mostly just in pain from the teeth (or that is my hope). He didn’t eat much greens this morning and still no poop, but he isn’t hunched like he was yesterday and no teeth grinding. I’m hoping the metacam will perk him up a little bit.

                        Molly


                      • Sarita
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                          When exactly did they trim his teeth?


                        • Molzy
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                            They trimmed them around 6pm last night, and had to sedate him for the procedure – I think that they actually had to cut off some of the spurs and then grind them down? I don’t have the report yet, but that is what I got from their report. So it’s been less than 24 hours.

                            Yesterday he was in obviously a lot more pain – loud teeth grinding, hunched body, etc. But he is still not really moving around at all, he stays wherever I put them. He doesn’t seem to be in pain when I massage his belly or anything, and I don’t feel anything hard inside.

                            I just saw your other post, which worries me a bit. I’m a worry wart when it comes to my pets, which I am sure you can all understand. He definitely seems in pain, just less than yesterday. I wish I lived in Minneapolis still where I had a GREAT exotic vet.


                          • Sarita
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                              Yes, it could take about 3 full days from the procedure as their teeth still hurt and probably his mouth from the lacerations.

                              I would keep up the handfeeding and metacam and the fresh greens.

                              Did the vet think the spurs were due to misaligned teeth?


                            • Molzy
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                                At what point should I be concerned if I don’t have poop? At this point I *know* we’ve gone almost 24 hours without anything. But it may have been longer. The last time I know he ate of his own free will was Monday morning, other than a couple of bites of greens in the past 24 hours.

                                I am not sure about the misaligned teeth, I never actually spoke with the vet who did the procedure as she was actually supposed to be off, but they called her in for a consult before she left. I am hoping to get in early next Monday on a non-emergency appt for her to look at him again and then see whether this is something I need to have done every few months or whatnot. It was not his incisors, but his molars. He is a small dwarf, with that round dwarf head.


                              • Elrohwen
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                                  Often teeth issues are for life and keep coming back, but if he’s five years old and this is his first time, then it might be ok. Hannah had her first trim at age 3 and it’s bee a year and a half and she’s fine.

                                  I would worry more about not pooping than not eating. Hannah had to be force fed, but she was getting food into her and her stomach was processing normally so she still pooped. If you’re force feeding and he’s not pooping by tomorrow morning I would try to get him in again. If he is pooping and you’re still force feeding, I would just wait because there’s not much more the vet will be able to do for him.


                                • Sarita
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                                    Sometimes as well, rabbits develop problems as they age because they start to lose bone density. Dwarfs are notorious for having dental problems as well because they have the “smooched” up face.

                                    As for poop, about 24 hours in my opinion. If they aren’t pooping, they aren’t eating.


                                  • Molzy
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                                      Thanks everyone. He just passed 4 normal looking poops when I was feeding him – yay! He also ate a couple of pellets for me, but it was obvious it still hurt to eat them, but he was interested. I will continue with the critical care, and hopefully he will pass more poop in the coming hours.


                                    • Sarita
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                                        That’s great! Continued healing vibes.


                                      • TBpony414
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                                          I want to chime in that it really depends on the individual rabbit and how bad they’re feeling, both before and after the vet/surgery. My bunny stopped eating last weekend and I got his teeth trimmed on Tuesday, by Wednesday he was eating again and tonight he did a binky!! He NEVER binkies so this was a huge success… although currently he is hunched over in his box not feeling so great again.

                                          Are you giving any simethicone? That helps with gas, it can be given every 2-3 hours in critical times, but my bunny gets it twice a day as he has chronic, genetic GI issues – as well as bad teeth that cut into his tongue and cheeks! Sometimes simethicone can be hard to find, although any CVS or drug store should have it. It often will say “infant gas drops” or something similar on the box, but check the back – the main ingredient is simethicone. You can give 2 or 3cc (use the syringe you have for the meloxicam/metacam for this, not the dropper included with the package) several times a day.

                                          If your bunny is feeling really rotten you can give oral meloxicam (aka metacam) every 12 hours, then after 2-3 days you can go down to 1x/day, then none. Since you aren’t giving it every day, just as needed every few weeks or months, there is virtually no risk involved. If given daily for months on end it can cause kidney problems. After a serious episode of stasis this summer, my bunny Willy was on meloxicam for 2.5 weeks 2x/d before going to 1x/d for another week. He has a VERY low pain threshold, though. Since rabbits shut down when they don’t feel well, I personally am very proactive and would rather almost over-do medicines, fluids, critical care, tummy rubs than risk having my bunny in pain and quickly get worse.

                                          Also, adding a little bit of applesauce to the critical care may help encourage eating it more often. Sounds like you’re doing a great job!! Being a bunny parent can be SO stressful but it’s totally worth it

                                          ETA: Reglan (metoclopramide) can be helpful too, it stimulates the upper digestive tract and can help stimulate an appetite. For lower GI tract use Propulsid (cisapride) – this one is kind of expensive but it really helps, I think almost moreso than the reglan. You could probably just get 1-2 weeks worth of it. Willy takes it twice a day, without it his cecals do not exist in usable form! Another thing that helped was a probiotic – “Proviable” packets, it helps replenish the good bacteria in the tummy. The tube of it is impossible, I use the packets and mix them in with a bit of critical care and feed as a snack. The directions say to put it in the water bowl/bottle but I like knowing my rabbit is actually ingesting every last bit of it. Sorry if this is a bit of an overhwelming post, I’ve just been dealing with nonstop GI issues this entire year with my little guy and have really learned a lot (as well as spent $2,000 in vet bills for these problems LOL)


                                        • KatnipCrzy
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                                            I would not be terribly surprised that he was not wanting to eat after you brought him home- he could have still been groggy from the anesthesia and plus the mouth pain that caused abnormal eating had not started to heal yet. So it makes sense that they gave him fluids, pain meds and sent you home with pain meds and CC. It takes awhile for the GI system to “catch up” once it has stopped so it will take awhile for poos to be produced and they won’t be normal looking poos at first as the GI tract is getting back to normal.
                                            It is less worrysome that a bunny has not pooped in 24 hours if you have discovered the problem and are treating it- like you did.


                                          • Molzy
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                                              Thanks again everyone!

                                              Last night he pooped a lot, however it is one giant runny mess. Is this normal? I am assuming it is OK given that he is only getting critical care right now, so it basically came out that consistency.

                                              He is doing better – still not moving around at all (he will stay wherever I put him for hours), but he has started grooming himself again which I take as a good sign. I just got him to eat a whole meal of critical care, and he sniffed and tried to eat some pellets/hay after, but his poor little mouth must still hurt.

                                              Thanks again. It is so nice to have a group of people that understand how important your pets lives are to you. My friends and family love Riley, but they don’t understand how fragile they are – they think that since I went to the vet, he should be fine now.


                                            • Sarita
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                                                That is normal – it’s usually the result of the anesthesia and pain meds used during the procedure.

                                                It sounds as if he is on his way to recovery but continue with the pain meds and the critical care.

                                                I suspect that he is going to have dental problems regularly now so it wouldn’t hurt to have his teeth checked twice a year unless of course you suspect that he needs his teeth trimmed more often based on his behavior.

                                                My netherland dwarf Bobby goes in every 4 months to have his teeth looked at.


                                              • Molzy
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                                                  Thanks Sarita. His poo’s are still a little runny and he’s groggy, but he is gobbling up the critical care, snacking on herbs and a pellet or two now and then, and hopping around more and more.

                                                  Thanks for all your support guys! I’ll update after our re-check later this week when I should know more about his long-term teeth care.

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                                              Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Molar spurs/possible GI stasis?