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Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A I really need advice…

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    • MissBunns
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        I petsit for people a lot and on Thursday I began petsitting for a woman with a rabbitry and other animals. I love the rabbits and they’re all so sweet…but there’s one that is depressed, doesn’t eat/drink, and is sooooooooooooo skinny. His cage is in the corner and he sits facing the corner all hunched up. I have pictures, but I guess I don’t know what good it will do.

        Anyway, I’ve fallen in love (probably too because he has broken my heart) and I have  spent time petting him so he can have SOME love, and he seems to really enjoy it. I decided to try and pull him out today and hold him, and even though he grunted at me, he let me hold him and then snuggled into my stomach, hid his face in the nook of my arm, gave me two kisses, and let me pet him for a while. When I put him back, he seemed like a sad little kid, tried to come back over to me, and when I closed the cage….went back into the corner.

        She said that he is her personal pet, and doesn’t do much with him, but I’m going to see if tomorrow she will sell him to me. If/when she does though, I ‘m in a bit of a pickle. I know my grandma would murder me a million times around if he stays here for too long, plus with my own two, I’ve heard bonding a third is super, duper hard. Though I honestly believe that if he just has human affection he would be fine.

        So essentially, what I’m saying is I don’t know what to do. I know this is incredibly irresponsible of me to do, but he needs out. I feel like he will die soon, and if he does I want him to enjoy the last of his time here. Someone owes him that. I’m not sure if the House Rabbit Society would take him, I’ve heard they’re very picky because they don’t want to be a “dumping ground” and I understand, but he really does need help

        I’ve had a friend contact an old friend of mine, and she says she would take him..but she’s the type of person that goes through pets like tissues, and I know his newness would wear off very soon, and he requires a special, and very rabbit savvy person.

        If some how I’m able to convince my grandma to let me keep him (please, please send out good vibes for us!) then would it be better to leave him alone in his own condo? Or would possibly bonding all three of them be possible when he is better? Honestly, this is what I want to do. I want to keep him. He looks very similar to Bunny (possibly why it has hit me so hard) but I think his best bet is with me….

        So, to summarize my ridiculously long story, rabbit really needs help, if she will sell him to me, then what?

        Any ideas to convince very stubborn grandparents on allowing just oneeee more rabbit? I mean it when I say he would be my last for as long as I live at home (but I did say that about Jack.) What about rehabbing a very skinny (soooo skinny, it’s pathetic. He’s a holland lop and weighs nothing, his bones are visible through his fluff!) rabbit? He won’t eat anything I give him…is force feeding the only option? I guess I shouldn’t worry about this yet..?

        If all else fails, and I don’t feel like handing over what feels like another child of mine to this other girl, are there any rescue organizations that will take a rabbit in Colorado? I’ll drive wherever I have to I guess…I just want him to be a house bunny, not stuck in a cage in a garage again. He deserves better.

        Thank you all! Please send positive vibes that all will go well….

         


      • KatnipCrzy
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          Be very careful about bringing a possibly sick bunny home to your house.
          I understand your feelings- I always fall in love with the runt or underdog too. Have you tried to talk to her about your concerns?
          Maybe someone else will have some rescue contacts for you. But just be sure that you are protecting your bunnies health first and forement. Disease can run rampant in a rabbitry.


        • MissBunns
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            Oh gosh, I guess I am very naiive. I brought Jack home, even though it’s possible he was sick. I got lucky..

            Would you happen to know what to look for to tell if they’re sick? Or what kind of sickness to watch out for? I honestly think his weight issue is because he is depressed, I know that sounds crazy, but when I look at him I feel like he just wants to die.

            And as far as talking to her…she’s a business woman. She breeds and shows them, and she says he is her “pet” but “doesn’t do anything with him” I don’t think she would care about it, and even if she did, she still wouldn’t have the time for him. I think it all comes down to money…

            When I asked about what to do as far as emergencies went she just told me “we don’t do vets.” So, I guess, I just figure she doesn’t really care :/ Maybe I sound cynical…


          • jerseygirl
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              Being a holland lop, it’s possible he has some dental issues. That can lead to weight loss and depression. If she’s a breeder she’s likely not going to want to breed a rabbit with dental malocclusion. Well, this is just a big assumption on my part anyway…

              “we don’t do vets.”

              That is highly frustrating! What about offering to pay for a vet visit for him just to find out what’s going on? Do you think she’d be willing? Are you in a position to do that? It might give you more insight as to what to do for him also.


            • jerseygirl
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                Or if your her pet sitter you could always get him checked out by the vet during one of your pet sitting gigs…..

                ETA: One thing you might be able to do for him now is try get hold of some Oxbow Critical Care and see if you can get him to eat that. Katnip brings up a good point about sickness too. You should take care handling this rabbit and being around the rabbitry rabbits then coming home to handle your own pair. Make sure you change cloths, wash hands etc.


              • MissBunns
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                  Today was my last day to watch over all of them, they’re back tomorrow. Otherwise I would have checked his teeth. And no, she isn’t breeding him. She actually DOES take good care of her rabbits, it’s just the “pet” one that is in horrid condition.

                  I don’t think she would take it up, and I would be frustrated to pay for it (which I’m not exactly in the best position to do anyway), knowing I would have to give him back, and she wouldn’t do a thing about it.

                  I feel like a horrible mom…I guess since they all were so healthy, I didn’t even give it a thought. I’ll be sure to in the future. I feel so stupid for not even thinking about bringing stuff home…


                • jerseygirl
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                    I feel like a horrible mom…I guess since they all were so healthy, I didn’t even give it a thought. I’ll be sure to in the future. I feel so stupid for not even thinking about bringing stuff home…

                    Don’t feel that way at all! It’s only after I started reading about different contagious things that I’ve become more aware. And from learning from the forums as lots of member take in fosters.  Katnip is a vet tech and would be well versed about infection control and quarantine protocols. But these are things most of us don’t automatically think about.

                    About the breeding – that’s what I mean, if responsible, she would not breed him if he had malocclusion. It could be the reason why he’s now a “pet” instead.


                  • MissBunns
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                      Yes, I definitely know I’ll be more careful from here on. I’m sure it is scary…

                      Yeah, that would make sense. I guess I just don’t understand why she insisted on keeping him.

                      Do you know if I have Jack & Bunny in one room, and the other in another room (if it comes to that) and then don’t cross contaminate until I get him checked out, would that be okay? Or just, not even same house?


                    • Beka27
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                        He would have to be quarantined (separate room/change clothes/wash hands) and checked out by your vet as soon as possible. It sounds like this rabbit needs help, but I want to caution you that if there is something wrong, especially a congenital condition with teeth, you would be looking as spending thousands of dollars over the course of his lifetime. I am not saying this bunny isn’t worth every penny, because I believe he is, just be aware that once you take him in, that becomes your responsibility. We see this quite a bit when well-meaning people want to “save” a sickly rabbit and they get in way over their heads. And of course, neutering him once he is well.

                        If you could somehow manage to get him vet-checked prior to committing to keep him, you would know what you were getting into, but I know if it were me, I would then feel obligated knowing what was wrong… I am concerned because you expressed that finances might be a challenge, and first and foremost, you are responsible for the ones you already have.

                        He could be surrendered to a shelter, but chances are he might be euthanized if his condition is too serious. Of course, this would be more humane than being allowed to live in pain and slowly suffer. Shelters don’t have the resources for costly rehabilitation and the majority of adopters will pass over a rabbit with a chronic health condition.

                        Jersey might have hit the nail on the head when she said that the breeder IS being responsible by not breeding a rabbit with a chronic health condition. I don’t agree with her stance on “no vets”, but many rabbits who are deemed “unbreedable” meet untimely ends very soon.


                      • littlemissflip
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                          Like others have said, it sounds very possible that he might have dental issues that are preventing him from eating as much as he should, and that’s causing him to be lethargic and depressed. (Although obviously there could be other things wrong with him as well.) To do a thorough exam of his teeth, the vet would likely anesthitize him. If the teeth are maloclluded, they might shave them down… if the teeth are so overgrown that they’re digging into his mouth and causing a lot of pain, they might need to do dental surgery to extract the problematic tooth. It could be several hundred dollars of vet procedures…

                          If the woman is willing to sell him to you, then I’d make arrangements to have him seen by a vet ASAP. If you explain the situation to them (that you’re essentially rescuing him from a bad situation), maybe they’d be willing to do the procedure for less money, or work out a flexible payment plan, etc. ??

                          We lost our first Holland Lop to complications from GI stasis and dental surgery after an undiagnosed tooth problem. One of the most heartbreaking experiences of my life. We miss him every day, and we’re filled with regret that we didn’t recognize the symptoms sooner. If you could save another bunny from that fate, and give him some much-needed love and attention, that would be so wonderful… of course, it hinges on whether she’ll sell him to you in the first place.

                          Good luck! Poor lilttle bun


                        • MissBunns
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                            I appreciate all the advice; things are being brought up I didn’t know about. Especially the teeth, I thought about how it may be his chompers, I just didn’t know it was so expensive. When I rescued Jack, it didn’t take me long to get him back to normal…I think I got lucky and just assumed they all would be like that (stupid, stupid, I know. Call it wishful thinking?)

                            I’m glad my vet is close, maybe I will be able to talk to her about him. She seems like a very reasonable woman.

                            Aww littlemissflip, I’m sorry Bunny almost died of stasis, but it turned out that me being a paranoid mom worked well for saving her. I can’t imagine losing a bun to that.

                            And that’s what I figure, he seems old, so if someone could just give him some love, attention, delicious yummies, and toys for the last days of his life, I’d consider it job well done. I just know that the friend who would take him wouldn’t be able to offer him everything he needs, vet included.

                            It does all depend on if she’ll get rid of him. I’m certainly getting ahead of myself, I’m sorry. And Thanks again for all the insight


                          • MissBunns
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                              Okay, so I talked to her on the phone today and she said that he came down with snuffles on Monday, that she put him on penicillin, and that she was thinking of “euthanizing” him so he doesn’t infect the others. I have no problem with humane euthanasia..but if you don’t go to the vet, what exactly does “euthanize” mean?? :S That worries me for sure.

                              After telling me all this..she said she would sell him to me…for $50…because he is “breeding quality” (matter of opinions I guess?)

                              She said she loved how well I took care of everyone, so I’ll be watching them (and him) again in two weeks… I am NOT willing to bring home snuffles to my own babies, so I guess he will be staying. Plus the price is ridiculous. Her website says $25 for “pet” rabbits, and she has now decided he is breeding quality since I’m interested?? I’m so peeved by this entire situation and I feel like I’ve totally failed him


                            • Beka27
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                                SHE has failed him. You have not. “Snuffles” can be anything from a simple respiratory infection to a more severe, chronic case of pasteurella. You don’t know what he has without having a vet evaluate him and culture any nasal discharge.

                                “Euthanasia” could mean anything. I hate to think what on earth she would do.

                                Can I ask why you are continuing to watch these rabbits for her? I understand the necessity of having to make some money but it is also up to you to choose who you work with. If it were me, I would not want to deal with this person again.


                              • Tate
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                                  Kind of a personal question, but if you DID have enough money to treat the rabbit, would you? You might want to look into CareCredit. I know credit cards are a pain, but if you could/were willing to make a $50-60 payment every month, it could work! I had to get this card a while ago and it was (literally) a life saver.


                                • MissBunns
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                                    So by her just giving him penicillin, will that do him any good at all? Or does it just depend on the type? I’ve been fortunate enough to never have encountered snuffles, so I guess I’m pretty clueless. I just thought it was like a cold with nasal discharge, etc.

                                    Because soooo few people are willing to even bother giving me a chance because of my age. I have a job starting in a few weeks, but until then I need to make enough money for gas, car payment, bunny money, and college fund. And, as crazy as it sounds, she is actually very nice :/ This was the first time I watched for them and she’s very kind, and does love her rabbits…I guess since I’m such a strong advocate for house rabbits, we just have different ideas of the worth of a rabbit…? I’m sure that sounds stupid.

                                    The second reason is my own bunny. She was in the exact same position as this one is, and she was only cared for for as long as she was winning. Which she didn’t, so she was useless, extra, etc. And so I feel that when I take care of the rabbits, as simple as she has it, the time I spend with them is the only time they get human affection aside from being taken out to be bred, groomed for a show, moved to a show. And he does look so much like Bunny, I guess it’s just deja vu and I wish someone had done something for her.

                                    It’s not that I don’t have enough money if it came down to it, it’s just the way I have all my money split up. My college fund in pretty much non-existent now, but I still have a stupid ridiculous car payment to make, and then money for my rabbits that is strictly for them for food, and then a “cushion” for an emergency; which I don’t like touching. I would LOVE to do care credit, and I know my vet accepts it…but (always a but, right? :/) I’m only 17, and I’m sure it requires someone to be 18 to apply, right?


                                  • Tate
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                                      Penicillin is common for the snuffles and as far as my understanding goes, it gets results. On a side note, I believe that penicillin must be injected directly into the blood stream, otherwise it can be fatal. I may be thinking of something else, but I thought it was true for all -cillins in rabbits.
                                      It’s totally normal to be in your situation. I think that I would almost feel obligated to continue pet sitting for her to make sure I can drop in and check on the welfare of them all and give occasional loves! And it’s not weird to think that we give more value to rabbits in general. They aren’t stock to us and they don’t make money for us (QUITE the opposite).
                                      For euthanasia- it’s true that she really could do anything but the most common that I know of is either breaking his neck or putting him in a CO2 gas tank.
                                      As far as CareCredit, yes you will need to be at least 18.
                                      It is a tough situation to be in. Honestly, I would say NOT to feel obligated to take on this rabbit. You need to focus on Jack and Bunny. They are your first priorities and what if something happened to them tonight and you used up that emergency fund? I know how difficult it is to care for 2 healthy rabbits… lots of money and cleaning! You can’t compromise them for another one.
                                      I don’t remember if this was talked about already, but have you contacted a shelter? Not a humane society, but an actual rabbit rescue. There are a few in the state that I live in and I had never heard about them until I actually looked for them! They might be able to take the rabbit for you, if they aren’t full. However, it would probably require you buying the rabbit and transporting him to their shelter.


                                    • MissBunns
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                                        Thank you so much Tate! I’ve learned a lot from you, and I really appreciate the understanding.
                                        I highly doubt she is injecting it o.O
                                        Exactly! For her, they’re a hobby and a money maker, house rabbits are just little money pits of joy
                                        I worried about the neck..but I also thought maybe about her drowning him…I don’t know.
                                        Bummer….I’ll DEFINITELY be applying for it next March, it’ll give me something to look forward to being able to do once I’m of age hahaha.
                                        Yes, I’m trying to talk myself out of it. I could never, ever forgive myself if anything happened to Jack and Bunny. I even especially thought of the “what ifs” and I would hate to take their fund away from them. *sigh*
                                        I think I’ll see if she will wiggle the price down so it is fair, and meanwhile call the COHRS and see if they’d be willing to take him. He really is an absolute sweetheart <3 I'd have no problem buying him, and driving him wherever he will be safe…I just know that when it comes down to it, it's silly to think of keeping him.

                                        Thanks for all the input, I couldn’t begin to explain how much it has helped me figure this all out


                                      • Beka27
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                                          You are in a very tough position. You will hear on the board from time to time, “You can’t save them all.” And that’s what it comes down to. Even rescues and shelters cannot possibly take in every bunny in need; time and space and resources are a very real constraint.

                                          I understand the necessity of having some work, but you are placing yourself in a difficult position. Let’s say you take in this bun, rehabilitate him, everything goes perfectly… I just worry about the next time when one of her buns get sick, and there will be a next time. We can’t save every bun we come across. I know this may sound callous, but it’s the truth.

                                          I personally would not pay her for him at all. Period. He needs medical care. I would express that to her, and if necessary, get your parents involved and have them stress that he will require care and they are willing to “do her a favor and take him off her hands”, but they are not comfortable paying for him. It’s unbelievable that she would charge for an animal, that 3 seconds earlier she was saying she might have to “euthanize”.

                                          Sorry. Situations like this get my blood boiling. It doesn’t matter how nice she seems, if she’s not providing proper care, she has no business having any rabbits.


                                        • Joyfull_music
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                                            I agree 100% with Beka. Giving someone with bad husbandry habits, especially breeders, a single dime just perpetuates the abuse they do to their animals.


                                          • Tate
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                                              Yup, agreed. But, I had spoken to a few people on the board specifically about that incident that happened in Florida- some breeder had an upwards of 70 or 80 rabbits, I *think*, and she was threatening to gas them all or sell them for snake food to a local zoo unless people paid like $10 for each rabbit. Of course, immediately you think, “get the checkbook! call rescues! call the police! we have to save these rabbits!!” but it does make you wonder: if I pay for these rabbits, did I just fund more breeding? Is this lady going to do the same thing in 6 months? I think it was MarkBun that said something like, “save the lives that are in front of you before saving the lives that are yet to be”.
                                              Truth is, everything has value. We may not be able to save every one yet, but that can’t prevent us from saving what we can. Many people walk into shelters daily and think, “I wish I could take every single animal here”. But, who uses that as a deterrent to get even just one?
                                              I don’t want to go back on what I said earlier, because I do think that right now, this rabbit might not be meant for your bun family. And I wouldn’t expect you to pay a dime for this rabbit. But don’t feel like you have to give up. Hopefully your HRS can help you out and give you some direction. Just remember that many people on this forum have rabbits from shelters- rabbits that came from a similar situation as this guy. All it really took was someone to say “this rabbit isn’t getting what he needs and I’ve got to help even if he can’t be mine”. And now look where they are! A massive community of people all looking to just give their best to them.
                                              Hopefully, that doesn’t confuse you further. This rabbit might not be able to be helped right now and it might just be a big lesson for you. Someday you will be in the position to help any animal in need and you’ll think back to this little guy. That could very much be his value.
                                              *hugs*


                                            • Beka27
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                                                Very well put, Tate.


                                              • Tate
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                                                  Oh and another thought! You could try contacting Save-A-Bunny. They are in CA so obviously it’s not possible to get him over there, but they might have some advice, as I know that all of them go through this often! They might be able to help you sort through your emotions and perhaps even have a contact in CO other than the HRS. I know Marcy, the owner (?) is on Facebook, you might be able to try contacting her directly through a message.


                                                • RabbitPam
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                                                    Beka’s suggestion that you offer to take this bunny off her hands, for free, really resonated with me. I would suggest that euthanizing bunnies by a vet is costly (certainly more than $50) and that doing something herself might be considered cruelty to animals – not a reputation a breeder wants to have.

                                                    So if you want to save him, and she agrees, you could take him directly to your vet to find out what is really wrong. He becomes yours at that point. Now she’s out of the loop. Then, depending on what it is, you take on the expense of either treating him, or arranging to have him moved into a local shelter where he will not infect your own bunny and be cared for, hopefully until a new owner wants him. It does sound like a real health problem, and giving the wrong medicine can be as harmful as none. (And maybe her method is an overdose of penicillin.)
                                                    But if it’s treatable and not contagious, it sounds like he really is a love bug where you are concerned and possibly your family can make room for him.
                                                    Forgive me if I didn’t read clearly if you explained why that wouldn’t be possible.
                                                    I am also of a mind to suggest that you continue pet sitting, but not for her. You can move on discreetly, and just list her as solid experience with your next pet owner. Yes, you’ll be upset by others, but this one sounds special to me, too.


                                                  • MissBunns
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                                                      Thank you everyone! I definitely won’t pay her $50, I’d be happy to pay the $25, but anymore and I know it’s not fair. I know that I can’t save them all, nor do I try, but some of them DO hit me, and I’m going to at least try.

                                                      I think it was MarkBun that said something like, “save the lives that are in front of you before saving the lives that are yet to be”.

                                                      I did see the post about the FL rabbits, I wish I had been there to help. And I do see the logic behind paying her, and her seeing that the threats work, etc. It’s the same thing in horses with buying a horse for double from a kill buyer when you know he now can go out and buy two more. It’s frustrating, and it’s hard to pick which ones to save. But I LOVE what MarkBun said, that REALLLLY stuck with me. I think it makes sense to me personally, but, I can see both sides of the argument I guess; I’ll just take things as they come.

                                                      There is no way I’ll give up, animal rescue has been too close to my heart since I was very young. I just wish I could help him now; though I know that won’t be the case…unless she’s willing to give him up for much, much less. If that doesn’t happen, it’s (unfortunately) not like I won’t ever run into this again. But maybe then it will be better for everyone involved and I can foster for a rescue when we’re in our own house.

                                                      I’ll just have to make a new rule for that everybunny I am unable to help now, that’s three I’ll have to help in the future

                                                      I really appreciate all of the help everyone has contributed. Tate, especially you. <3 You've helped me so, so much. I'm grateful to all of you, and if something else comes up with him, I'll go from there. But otherwise, I guess it is what it is..for now.

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                                                  Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A I really need advice…