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Forum DIET & CARE Aloe Juice and Pumpkin–Buster’s ongoing GI issues

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    • Denise12
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         Hello!

        Well, some of you know, Buster has been having on going GI issues. This is the 3rd time she’s been at the vet for a prolonged period of time since Sept. She’s not even 2 yet. This has been going on every 3 months like clockwork. I’m wondering if its b/c of a shedding?

        The vets also semi-diagnosed her w/cow poop syndrome. I recognized that she wasnt normal earlier this time, and got her into the vet before she  completely had nothing in her stomach, which was usual. I know how to take her temp now and it was normal too. 

        There is something that happens w/her every once in a while (well, ok every 3 months lately) and its costing so much $. She just stops eating and pooping and she ends up at the vet to be treated w/meds and syringe fed 3-5 days.

        Our vet suggested that we put her on aloe juice and pumpkin. The vet had someone similar to Buster, then they put her on that, and they havent seen her in almost a year. 

        Anyone have experience with aloe/pumpkin to keep things moving?  She’s also been on lactulose and also been off the veggies for 3 months.

        I dont think that the veggies were an issue now b/c it happened again w/her off of them.

        We will do anything for her, but this is getting very expensive and emotionally draining……

        Thank you.


      • lashkay
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          I heard that aloe vera juice and plant is poisonous to bunnies. I’d check what several rabbit saavy-vets say before giving your bunny any.


        • lashkay
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            I’ve heard other members say that organic pumpkin is excellent for this!


          • lashkay
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              This was posted by another member who had experiences like yours, thought it might help:
              Gizmo, my little boy, has had many bouts with GI Stasis/Gas since he was a baby. Any little change in his diet throws his whole system off. I’ve found the best defense against GI Stasis is watching your buns closely for any changes in behavior and treating them ASAP. For Gizmo, I’ve gotten the routine down pat and it seems to work pretty good. As soon as I think there’s a problem I give him….

              0.25 ml Cisapride 2 x per day (this gets the bowels moving again but you can only get it from a vet)
              0.15 ml Meloxicam 1 x per day (Pain reliever and you can only get this from a vet also)
              0.3 ml Simethicone every 2 hours until better (available at any drugstore)
              8-11 ml Critical Care mixed with organic canned pumpkin 2 x per day. (Critical Care’s available at most vet’s and on many bunny websites)
              *Quick note on canned pumpkin- This stuff’s amazing!!! It’s hydrates their bowels and gets everything moving again. Just make sure not to
              get pumpkin pie mix. Get pure organic pumpkin. I swear by this stuff!

              If the above steps don’t work with a few hours, take them to the Vet.


            • Monkeybun
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                Aloe is indeed on the toxic list, I would get a second opinion!


              • LoveChaCha
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                  I second MB.. Aloe sounds.. hazardous..


                • jerseygirl
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                    I’m sorry Buster is still having issues. : ( Did you find the lactulose has helped at all?

                    Ditto x3 Aloe juice is toxic for rabbits. It would probably pay to mention it to this vet. His not seeing this other rabbit come back in since he prescribed this, doesn’t necessarily mean it worked. Could mean the owner took their rabbit to another vet.

                    I’d forgotten about that post Lashkay has re-posted above. Sounds like it’s been a good maintenance regime for Gizmo. The poster was daniellef if you’re interested in sending a PM.

                    The 3 month recurrence is worth noting for sure. I wonder if she gets a gradual build up of bad gut bacteria that brings on the stasis?

                    Does Buster go into a shed every 3 months? Is that why you think it could be related to that?


                  • LittlePuffyTail
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                      I dealt with a lot of GI issues when Stormy was younger and it makes me have to ask, what is Buster’s diet like? I made some diet changes and it made a huge difference.


                    • Denise12
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                        It’s Aloe Juice though, not the plant–its the insides. Great, I dont want to harm her of course.
                        I read on another board that the juice is ok, b/c its the inside of the plant.
                         

                        The lactulose was working….for 3 months…then not sure why she had this happen again

                        And yes, it could be a shedding issue every 3 months 

                        May have to up the dosage as it was the smallest amount.

                        Ugh, I’m sick over this.

                         

                        Her Diet: Went from eating the 1 cup of veggies per night, alfalfa pellets, and orchard grass hay.

                        Her bought of stasis in Sept. happened after I gave her peppers and spinach–or it could have been a shedding.

                        I stopped her on gassy veggies, and stuck w/romaine, kale, etc….then in Jan., another bought of it. I thought that may have been stress b/c we had house guests and a dog in the house….also gave her a lot of kale one night. After that, i completely took her off of veggies, and just gave her pellets, and orchard grass, and her lactulose in apple sauce and a raisin once or twice a day.

                        Now that I know it wasnt a veggie issue, i’ll give her some again….just dont know whats causing it. Nothing seems to be working.

                         


                      • jerseygirl
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                          It’s the juice that is the toxic part.

                          Does she eat a lot of hay? Have trouble eating it?


                        • Denise12
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                            That’s strange…I dont see that in my rabbit handbook book under toxic plants.
                            I’m so confused…my vets are terrific—so i think!

                             

                            And yes, JerseyGirl…she eats hay a lot…orchard grass —loves it 

                            Thanks for your help, i’m going to print out a website and show them today when I pick her up. 

                            http://www.helium.com/items/1210259-plants-that-are-toxic-to-rabbits-poisonous-plants-for-rabbits

                             

                             


                          • jerseygirl
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                              Sorry, I hadn’t realised she was currently at the vet for stasis again. {{{Buster!}}}


                            • Denise12
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                                Its ok, you have always been so kind thinking about her.
                                can you lead me to another listing or site that says aloe juice is toxic?
                                I called another rabbit vets office in my area. She works w/my current vet and back each other up.
                                the woman said that my vet is the best rabbit dr and she would never do anything that would hurt her….anyway, will be picking her up in 2 hrs!


                              • lashkay
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                                  Thanks, Jersey, I had hoped someone would be able to furnish the name of the person who posted Gizmo’s regimen. I’m glad you were able to.


                                • Monkeybun
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                                    I found a Q/A on all experts about it that says it is toxic too…

                                    http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/help-please-1.htm


                                  • lashkay
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                                      Here’s a list from the Houserabbit Society that says Aloe Vera is poisonous to rabbits:

                                      http://www.allearssac.org/pdf/poison.pdf


                                    • Denise12
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                                        So…she’s home now recovering!

                                        I spoke with the client at my vet who put his rabbit on aloe juice and pumpkin. He actually researched it and brought it to my vets attention.
                                        He called me and spoke w/me and said that he hasnt been at the vet since Sept! He was going in for GI stasis about every 2-3 months at one point.
                                        So he gives her 1cc of flavored aloe juice (he gets at gnc) and mixes it in a spoon of pumpkin a day.

                                        I told my vet of the concerns I read, and she said she will research it on her veterinary boards online, and to hold off on it for now.
                                        I’m seeing if she likes the pumpkin…so far, not too much, but dont think she’s into eating too much right now.
                                        She’s back to pooping and drinking and eating pellets/hay though.
                                        I just do not want this to happen again, and if this guys rabbit has been so healthy from the juice, it has to be ok.


                                      • jerseygirl
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                                          Please post what your vet finds out about this. I was thinking a little about it last night. Many medicines or seemingly harmless things taken internally have the potential to be poisonous depending on how much is taken. When they eat a plant it would be hard to gauge how much is ingested. Perhaps there has been some discovery with animals that aloe in small amounts is safe to give? But 1ml/day for a rabbit seems like an awful lot… Aloe is listed as toxic to cats & dogs by the ASPCA yet I was reading stories of it been given medicinally – but aloe juice companys of course.

                                          The problem with new treatments is it can take a long time before scientific tests are conducted in mainstream medicine (human or veterinary) before it becomes more widely accepted. So much information in the mean time is anecdotal. Still, lots of “rabbit” meds were intended for other animals and used off label for rabbits. I believe lactulose (not a med specifically) is only used based on anecdotal evidence of it’s effectiveness also.

                                          What is the aloe juice supposed to do? I’m wondering if it has anything to do with soothing stomach ulcers? I think stasis episodes can come on from these and it’s a vicious cycle as the stasis could irritate and ulcer further. Sarita has mentioned something before that can be given to aid in stomach ulcers but I can’t recall the name.

                                          One thing I’ve come across is Aloe’s use for renal failure in animals which is interesting. There’s not much you can do for them once in renal failure, so if this proves to be safe and effective for that condition – then that’s great IMO. So it will be interesting what your vet can find on aloe.
                                           

                                          In the meatime you can be pretty confident that a little pumpkin is ok.


                                        • jerseygirl
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                                            Just want to add:
                                            I was curious to find out whether pumpkin contains pectin and just discovered it does! I had known that pectin is supposed to help with things like stomach ulcers, IBS in humans. I just read pectin can bind with harmful toxins produced by gut bacteria and help eliminate them from the body. I wonder if it’s the pectin plus the fibre that is what is so beneficial for rabbits? It’s seems like it’s an all round good food! I’m happy I bought some last week now. I should eat more of it myself.


                                          • Monkeybun
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                                              And do be careful. My vet likes to tell a story about a rabbit he had as a patient that had been fed nothing but meat and cheese for a year. So just because they can eat it for a time, doesn’t mean it is safe.


                                            • jerseygirl
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                                                Meat & cheese?!!!!! I hope that rabbit is no longer with whoever was feeding it that!


                                              • LoveChaCha
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                                                  Posted By Monkeybun on 04/16/2011 10:46 PM
                                                  And do be careful. My vet likes to tell a story about a rabbit he had as a patient that had been fed nothing but meat and cheese for a year. So just because they can eat it for a time, doesn’t mean it is safe.

                                                   

                                                   Say.. what? 


                                                • Monkeybun
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                                                    Yeah its crazy! The bun was rescued from that family, don’t worry Poor little guy didn’t know what to do with real rabbit food, the vet said. He was surprised the little guy lived that long on that diet, he must have had an iron stomach.


                                                  • LittlePuffyTail
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                                                      Have you considered switching to Timothy pellets?


                                                    • Denise12
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                                                        no, i havent. Right now she’s on the rainbow exact or the bunny basics.


                                                      • Sarita
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                                                          Bunny Basics is timothy pellets.


                                                        • Denise12
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                                                            Well, ok! Then she is partly!
                                                            The rainbows are being discontinued, so i am mixing the two together so she gets used to plain stuff sometimes


                                                          • KatnipCrzy
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                                                              what is the dose of lactulose you are giving? I know that we messaged about the Cow Poop Syndrome and your vet started her on it- but the dose was low (not sure if it was a starting dose). Schroeder gets 3mls once a day. I think you mentioned you were starting at .1ml- have you increased the dose? That could make a difference.
                                                              Schroeder has not been back to the vet since starting lactulose- no more tummy issues other than the one horrible one.


                                                            • Denise12
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                                                                It was tiny between .10 and .20. We are off of it now, b/c her poo is so liquidy, but once she’s back on, i think we’ll make it bigger dose.
                                                                We’re going away in 3 weeks and i want our bunny sitter to not have any problems!


                                                              • Sarita
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                                                                  Why don’t you take her totally off pellets? Have you tried that?


                                                                • jerseygirl
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                                                                    Posted By Sarita on 04/18/2011 02:43 PM
                                                                    Why don’t you take her totally off pellets? Have you tried that?

                                                                    Definately worth a try.  Could be she’s sensitive to some of the ingredients. If she’s a good hay eater then she won’t go hungry.  Has she been on the Kaytee brand long term?
                                                                     


                                                                  • LittlePuffyTail
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                                                                      Drastically reducing the pellets I give my buns helped Stormy a lot with his GI Issues. He used to get about 1/8 cup a day now he only gets about 2 teaspoons a day. My vet is very anti-pellets. I also increased the veggies and always make sure I feed them quite wet.

                                                                      I strongly believe the pellet reduction is what made the difference. Quite a relief too because he had quite a few scary (and expensive) stasis episodes where we almost lost him. Now he gets gas once in a while but a dose or two of simethicone usually clears that right up.


                                                                    • Denise12
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                                                                        Interesting. My vet will be asked about this too.


                                                                      • Denise12
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                                                                          Hi everyone…jerseygirl was kind enough to follow up with me on this, and I figured I would post here.
                                                                          My vet called me the other night to tell me she’s researched the aloe for bunnies on her veterinarian message boards and that people in europe have been giving their bunnies and other small animals aloe for digestive issues. All has been good with their buns! She told me to start her on 1.5cc’s 2x a day. I have started her on half of that now for the past 3 days, and so far, so good. Not toxic. I am only giving it to her once a day to ease her into it with a little pumpkin and she eats it all up. My vets other client uses it too, and I have spoken with him at length. He has had much success with it and his rabbit is an overgroomer, like buster. Fingers crossed it works!!!
                                                                          Thanks so much for checking in!


                                                                        • jerseygirl
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                                                                            Thanks for the update. That’s interesting about the aloe. I had another look online and am seeing it mentioned for rabbits on a UK based forum. There also seems to be some confusion between Aloe juice and Aloe gel.
                                                                            What did this gentleman find when he researched that he thought to try it for his rabbit? I’m reading that it can aid in gastrointestional issues both in humans and animals. I’m wondering if it sooths stomach ulcers? Also, it’s said to be a stress reliever which could help in some GI complaints.


                                                                          • Denise12
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                                                                              That’s exactly what he found…that helps in humans and animals. I’m not sure about ulcers….it is a soothing juice! Maybe!!


                                                                            • Denise12
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                                                                                So far, Buster has been great on the aloe. One cc a day in pumpkin. Not two right now.
                                                                                You guys will be hearing more about this, my vet is telling some other patients to do it as well!


                                                                              • Sarita
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                                                                                  I’m curious as to how the aloe helps. Is there some medicinal quality to taking it orally or some enzyme that helps. Did your vet give you a reason as to why the aloe is helpful. Very interesting to know more so I can share it with my vets.


                                                                                • Denise12
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                                                                                    Aloe juice is known for soothing stomach issues in humans–constipation, etc. Helps soften stools.
                                                                                    My bun has cow poop syndrome and the past few days when i’ve upped her dosage, she’s had the most perfect poops ever!
                                                                                    I was only giving her .15 cc’s at first which is just a drop. I then re-listened to her VM and she said 1 and a half cc’s. which is a whole dropper.

                                                                                    http://www.fruitsmoothierecipes.me.uk/aloe-vera-juice/

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                                                                                Forum DIET & CARE Aloe Juice and Pumpkin–Buster’s ongoing GI issues