Experiences with E. cuniculi? – update

[littlemissflip]

Hi all,  Do any of you have experiences dealing with E. cuniculi infections in bunnies?  Especially living with it long-term?

Our E. cuniculi story:

Last summer, Captain Danger developed a cataract in his eye–he was just one year old at the time.  We did a series of tests/treatments, and the vets ultimately decided that the symptoms were consistent with E. cuniculi infection of the eye: his E. cuniculi titer was in the medium-high range.  We were terrified that we would have to do surgery to remove the infected lens, or the whole eye… or worse, that the E. cuniculi would infect his brain. 

Our vet and the vetrinary opthamologist have been treating him with topical eye drops (to prevent inflammation in the eye) and fenbendazole (to treat the E. cuniculi). So far, he’s been responding really well to treatment!  He had bloodwork done in December, and there are no signs that the fenbendazole is having adverse effects (it can be hard on their liver). Just yesterday he had a 4-month follow-up with the eye doctor, and there is no inflammation, and no further progression of the cataract–yay!  Next week we’ll be rechecking his bloodwork, and we’ll do a follow-up E. cuniculi titer to see if the levels have gone down.  If all looks good, our vet will take him off the fenbendazole next month, and then we just have to watch him very carefully to make sure the E. cuniculi doesn’t come back.

I’m just curious whether anyone else has experience dealing with E. cuniculi.  From what I’ve read, it can come back after successful treatment, and it can also become resistant to the medications over time.  So I know that we’ll have to be watching for its return his whole life.  I don’t really have a good sense of whether it’s REALLY likely to return, or if it’s just a small chance…

Captain Danger is so spunky and energetic in every way… it’s hard to imagine him leading anything other than a long, healthy happy life. And as much as I’d like to just believe that 100%, I feel like I need to try and keep my expections regarding his life expectancy realistic.  As if somehow that will keep me from being completely crushed and devestated if the E. cuniculi comes back…

Anyway, I’d appreciate any insights/experiences/advice that you have! Thanks!

[RabbitPam]

I don’t, but I do know there are some members here who have. Binkybunny is not on the site at the moment, but she may have some info. for you later on. I also think Sarita might be well informed on this subject. I appreciate your patience, since we are not all on every day, so it may be a few days before someone else reads this. I’m replying in part to bump it to the top this morning.

It’s excellent that he is responding to treatment. Off hand, I’d say you have a better than average chance of not having a serious, untreatable or life-threatening reoccurrance, if only because it’s something you and your vet will check for routinely from now on. The worst happens when it goes undetected too long, but that won’t happen now. So I think you can anticipate a life span that is the same as if you hadn’t known, or better. Sounds like he’s in good hands.

[littlemissflip]

Thanks Pam!

[jerseygirl]

If it were to recur, it is still treatable isn’t it? I agree with RP, because you are watching so closely for recurrence any sypmtoms will be treated asap and that’s always a good thing.

I did a bit of reading about E.C. and symptoms in the eye when another members rabbit developed uveitis. They concluded it was from EC. I’ll try recover some of the info I was reading at the time. You may have done a lot od reading on EC already.

Fenbendazole has been the standard treatment for some time but there are newer meds that are effective against E.C. Ponazuril (toltrazuril) is a horse wormer that has been used in rabbits (I believe over the last decade now….). It’s also been used to treat coccidia infections much more quickly then previous meds. I *think* ponzuril can be used as well as fenbendazole. Sorry, I’m not entirely certain on facts as it’s been a while since of read on it all. Plus I find E.C somewhat baffling.

You could as Dr Dana Krempels some specific questions if you haven’t before. She is not a vet but a biologist/rabbit advocate/rabbit rescuer/rabbit owner and is very knowlegeable. I’m pretty sure she’s had several of her rabbits (own or rescues) with EC. http://www.allexperts.com/ep/703-35…els-Ph.htm

 

[skibunny8503]

Oh no Captain Danger!! The vet diagnosed my Gracie with E.C. and she’s doing much better. She’s on Metacam and Tramadol. BUT she’s the opposite end, her legs were giving out, so I can’t really help out much since I don’t have experience in EC in the head. I hope you find out something and he gets better!

[littlemissflip]

@Jersey – Yes, it should be treatable if it were to recur, but the medications aren’t completely benign, and apparently the E. cuniculi can become resistant over time–I imagine then it would be time to start trying some of the other medications that are available. They all seem to have their pros and cons… I’ve done a lot of browsing online for information, but it’s not really clear what the expected long-term prognosis might be, the likelihood of recurrence, the potential frequency of recurrence, etc. I can find a lot of iinformation online, but not a lot of personal experiences…

Thanks for the recommendation of Dr. Dana Krempels! I think I’ve come across her responses to other people’s bunny questions while doing online searches. The site says she’s on vacation for the month, but I’m bookmarking her site for later on.

@Skibunny – I’m glad to hear that Gracie is responding well to treatment too! That’s one of my big fears–that the E. cuniculi would infect his brain and cause neurological problems. I’ve read that they can become paralyzed and incontinent… Did your bunny regain her leg function once she was treated?

Thanks everyone for the replies!

[RabbitPam]

Dr. Dana Krempels is excellent.
Also, you can research it on the

House Rabbit Society website.

http://www.rabbit.org

When it comes to dealing with more serious issues down the road, there are resources for that as well. For example, I found the info. on Cats & Rabbits & More on disabled rabbits enormously helpful years ago when Spockie lost the use of his back legs. A good one to bookmark for the future.

 

http://www.catsandrabbitsandmore.com/disabled_rabbits

 

[littlemissflip]

Thanks Pam! I’m familiar with the House Rabbit Society website, but I haven’t seen the Cats & Rabbits site before. I’m bookmarking the page on disabled rabbits…just in case… (and with the hope that I never need it!)

[skibunny8503]

Since there’s no real test for EC, that’s what our vet thought she had or the start of it and he’s one of the best around. The good thing was that it’s only in her system for a short time and usually when they’re younger, so not say that my others won’t develop it but they wouldn’t have gotten it from her. It sucks because it can develop later in life. The thing with Gracie was that she would take a nap and when she would get up to run, her back legs gave out and she would be dragging them for a short period of time. She also has arthritis. She pees EVERWHERE because she doesn’t have much sensation in her back end, so she can’t help it…I’m not sure if this is from EC or arthritis or a little of both. After she got on meds she turned around and is doing much better. Still peeing a lot but we just have to live with that She doesn’t drag her legs anymore but trips a little on them but I think that will be the best we can do for that.
Keep us posted on how he’s doing! I hope the vet can help him.

[littlemissflip]

Thanks Ski, We run the E. caniculi titer next week to see if his levels have gone down, and then we’ll probably take him off medicine mid-April. That’s the part I’m nervous about… waiting to see if the E. caniculi comes back after we discontinue meds…

Thanks for sharing your experiences with Gracie. I hope she continues to improve

[littlemissflip]

An update: we finally got the E. cuniculi titer results back, and they’re still in the moderately-high range. Which doens’t tell us a whole lot, since titers are just indicators of exposure, but it certainly does suggest that we haven’t eliminated the E.c. from his system.

At this point, the vet’s recommendation is to go ahead and take him off the fenbendazole in a month (he’ll have been on it 6 months at that point), and then to just watch him very carefully for any signs of infection in his eye (cloudiness, redness, inflammation), CNS (head tilt, weakness, difficulty walking), or kidneys (increased water consumption/urination). It’s not recommended that we keep him on the fenbendazole indefinitely, because that can have adverse side-effects on his liver, bone marrow and/or GI tract.

Sigh… it’s scary going off the medicine. It’s scary knowing that this infection could flare up again at any time without warning. We’re hoping that he’ll go on living a happy healthy frisky life for a long long time, and that it only flared up last summer as we were dealing with a number of other medical conditions that might have compromised his immune system.

So… yeah… I don’t have any new questions… just updating, venting a little, and wishing for clearer answers to this whole E. cuniculi mystery

[BinkyBunny]

 I have had two rabbits that had e.cuniculi, but only one ever showed symptoms. Bailey’s symptoms were hind leg weakness but it wasn’t her legs that were directly affected, it was due to what e.cuniculi did to her brain/nervous system that prevented her from using them properly.  We used Ponazuril which seemed to help, but it can’t be used long-term because it can cause loss of appetite. I also believe that most of the drugs used for e.cuniculi cannot be used long-term either.  (not 100% on that though) 

 She got better but never fully (but still had a good life) and then later she started showing weakness again, and I can’t remember fully (I’ll have to go look at some old posts) but I remember putting her on a med schedule again.  Then after that, my vet was trying to get her acupuncture hours in for training, and so she offered to do it for free.  I am an open, yet a skeptic, but thought…what could it hurt.  Amazingly, that did seem to help!  Of course, this was to help the nervous system, and get her walking better –she did not have any eye issues. 

 

She was spunky and did really well throughout her illness.   

 

It’s been a few years since I had to deal with e.cuniculi, and I have’t kept up with any new advances or treatments.  But I do remember my understanding about it was that the parasite is always there, and a rabbit’s immune system (on it’s own and/or with meds) can keep it under control.  Age, stress and health issues can weaken the immune system which can then make a bunny more susceptible for the disease to take over. 

 

So for now just stay informed (like you are doing) so you can provide the best care you can, and then just give your bunny a calm loving existence with a healthy diet.  

 

Hugs to you! I know it’s not easy knowing that this disease is there, but your bunny is lucky to be loved and cared for  by you and so just keep your spirits up.  

 

Oh, and regarding the titer — the titer was helpful in “comparison” for us.  The first one just showed where Bailey was at at different points in the disease.  The different levels helped us later on to understand the “base” level for HER, and then we could understand, with other tests later on, if it was getting worse or better, or stayed the same.  

[littlemissflip]

Thanks, I really appreciate hearing about your experiences, and your words of encouragement!

It’s hard, because we lost our first bunny, Mr. Hop Hop very suddenly last year, and we were so, so devestated… that heartbreak still lingers, and so it’s extra hard to have this constant “oh my god he could get sick and die any day” kind of feeling with Captain Danger, especially when–despite all the medical issues–he’s been the spunkiest, happiest friskiest bunny you can imagine. I can’t imagine losing him prematurely too I try not to think about that though, and just… you know… enjoy my time with him and not take it for granted.

Thanks again

[jerseygirl]

that he’ll go on living a happy healthy frisky life for a long long time, and that it only flared up last summer as we were dealing with a number of other medical conditions that might have compromised his immune system.

Supporting his immune system is one area you can feel to have some control of. That’s something we can all do for our pets and ourselves.. I do remember Karla (the member who has a rabbit uveitis due to E.C) was looking into some natural type remedies. Echinacea was one thing she was giving to all her rabbits. That’s one I know is safe for them to have also. I should PM her to ask specifics. I’ve been meaning to get in touch with her.

There’s a product I’d really like to get hold of myself that some exotic vets seem to be using. It’s Heal X Booster and there is also one called Sunshine factor by the same company. They are dietry supplements.
The only thing is I can’t be certain the vets testimonials are independant.  Who really knows if those who promote it are paid or given some other benefits.

[littlemissflip]

Interesting! I haven’t looked into herbal/homeopathic treatments for rabbits, but it might be worth looking into. Thanks for the tip!

[littlemissflip]

Boo Captain Danger was scheduled to go off his meds THIS WEEK, and guess what–there’s something wrong with his eye again. We haven’t even stopped the meds yet. But yesterday he had some extra weird “goo” in his eye, and today there’s a thin thread of white running through his pupil. I’m hoping it’s just some minor blunt trauma and NOT related to the E. cuniculi. We go back to the vet–again–tomorrow.

So bummed

[jerseygirl]

I’m sorry, that’s so disappointing! : (

Did it start like this before? The whiteness in the pupil?

{{{Cpt. Danger}}}

[littlemissflip]

Yeah, it was similar… last summer I noticed a cloudiness over his pupil–it was like the pupil no longer looked round, because this cloudiness was covering part of it. This time it was a more localized white spot.

The good news is that there’s no trauma (my cat is off the hook–I thought he’d scratched the bunny), and apparently no new cataracts. It looks like proteins are sloughing off from the original cataract. They aren’t clinically problematic in and of themselves, but they can cause inflammation, etc., which can lead to further problems. For now, we’re going to keep him on his medication for a few more weeks, and then we have to take him back to the eye doctor to get a new assessment on whether we need to remove the eye lens.

So at least for now, Captain Danger is doing just fine

[jerseygirl]

Good to hear! Here’s hoping he continues to be. He’s in good hands.

[BinkyBunny]

oh WHEW! That is good news.

[littlemissflip]

Thanks!

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