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Forum THE LOUNGE Update on the Petland Rabbit Drownings

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    • Sarita
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        http://www.rabbit.org/hrs-info/petland.html

        Update 11/1: Elizabeth Carlisle is being prosecuted for animal cruelty, and her trial is set to begin on December 15. Please contact the DA and ask for the strongest possible sentence:

        Holland & Muirden Attorneys at Law
        J. Jeffrey Holland
        1343 Sharon-Copley Rd
        P.O. Box 345
        Sharon Center, Ohio 44274
        Email: jjholland@hmlawohio.com
        Phone: (866) 684-7336

        The Holland & Muirden website includes information on Mr. Holland’s involvement in animal abuse cases. From their website: “Holland & Muirden has been appointed by over twenty county humane societies to act as special prosecutor for animal cruelty cases. As long-standing members of the Animal Legal Defense Fund, we pursue a broad range of animal welfare issues, from veterinary malpractice, to estate planning for the care of a pet, to zoning issues relating to animals.”

        Please send a quick email to the above attorney as they are trying to reduce the sentence because they don’t see rabbits as companion animals…more as livestock.  Please urge strongest possible sentence because no animal deserves abuse.


         


      • babybunsmum
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          that is infuriating. i sent an email although coming from out of USA i do not the weight it will carry.


        • Kokaneeandkahlua
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            Thank you Sarita

            EVERYONE -take a minute or two. It may not make a difference, but doing nothing certainly will not make a difference

            This is what I sent

            “Dear J. Jeffrey Holland

            I am writing you today to urge you to prosecute Elizabeth Carlisle to the fullest extent of the law.

            From your website : “Holland & Muirden has been appointed by over twenty county humane societies to act as special prosecutor for animal cruelty cases. As long-standing members of the Animal Legal Defense Fund, we pursue a broad range of animal welfare issues, from veterinary malpractice, to estate planning for the care of a pet, to zoning issues relating to animals.”

            So please prosecute her to the fullest. Consider the callousness that was involved in her act.

            I urge you-do not reduce her sentence because of what the animals were (livestock vs. companion animals-this distinction has nothing to do with fear, pain or humane practices).

            They were NOT livestock, they were never intended for human consumption or use. The rabbits in this case were in a pet store-and WERE companion animals.

            She was not butchering them to eat, but rather for disgusting sport.

            Drowning is not a humane death, as outlined by the American Veterinary Medical Association.
            http://www.avma.org/issues/policy/animal_welfare/euthanasia.asp
            http://www.avma.org/issues/policy/animal_welfare/transport_livestock.asp

            Please use your position of power in this case, and make an example. Every case affects further cases. Please consider this. ”


          • Kokaneeandkahlua
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              Got a form reply back already

              “Thank you for your message. I agree that this is a disturbing case which should be handled seriously by the Court.

              While I had some involvement in this matter early on, the Akron Municipal Prosecutor’s office expressed a strong desire to prosecute this case to its conclusion. Both the Humane Society of Greater Akron and I have been assured that they will take this matter very seriously, and I have no doubt that they will do so. I am copying this reply to the attorney in charge.

              Thank you again for raising your voice in support of animal welfare.

              J. Jeffrey Holland
              Holland & Muirden, Attorneys at Law
              1343 Sharon-Copley Road
              P.O. Box 345
              Sharon Center, Ohio 44274
              330-239-4480; Fax 330-239-6224″


            • Kokaneeandkahlua
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                Umn, from the CC on his email, it looks like you can email the Attorney in charge

                “HanusCr@ci.akron.oh.us” directly but he forwarded mine already so if you sent, you should be good


              • LittlePuffyTail
                Moderator
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                  Great letter K&K! Let us know if the new attorney responds to you. If he responds, I will definitely send him a letter as well. I will probably send it via mail though. I’ve worked in law offices for years and it’s my opinion that letters usually have more of an impact than e-mails. Lawyers still  love snail mail

                  I’m hoping this case will be taken as seriously as the first lawyer assured you. I’m sure any attorney dealing with such a case realizes the consequences and outrage that will be expressed by animal rights activists in the event of a lenient sentence. I hope there will be many animal welfare advocates attending at the Court.

                  If I lived in the area, I would gather a bunch of bunny loving friends to attend and have t-shirts made with pictures and names of our respective buns and saying something like “RABBITS ARE PETS” in a silent protest.


                • jerseygirl
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                    Please send a quick email to the above attorney as they are trying to reduce the sentence because they don’t see rabbits as companion animals…more as livestock.  Please urge strongest possible sentence because no animal deserves abuse.

                    So ridiculous they would try push that.  I mean how much other livestock do they have in their pet store?  Either way, animals should still be dealt with humanely so the differentiation between companion and livestock is beside the point in my opinion. 


                  • Sarita
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                      What I wonder is why should there be any difference between livestock and pets – they all deserve humane treatment don’t they and a humane end to death. Don’t livestock feel pain and have fear – I think they do.


                    • LittlePuffyTail
                      Moderator
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                        My thoughts exactly. There are laws for the treatment of cows and pigs, but for some terrible reason, rabbits and chickens sold as livestock have no rights or laws to protect how they are treated. We all know firsthand, and it would be stupid to think otherwise, that rabbits have emotions like fear and feel pain just like we do.

                        Despite that, if they decide that rabbits sold in a PET store are livestock and treat the case accordingly, many a rabbit lover will be livid!!! I know I will be!

                        Here’s hoping Miss Carlisle spends Christmas in jail!!!!


                      • MarkBun
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                          10/29 – Carlisle appeared in court again, and both sides of the case discussed how her charges would probably be dropped from 1st degree to 2nd degree misdemeanors. This is largely because rabbits are not considered “companion pets” by law. Her attorney Ron Gatts is sticking to his original claims that she drowned the rabbits and then posted the now-infamous picture on Facebook because “they were sick,” and that he’s somehow annoyed that the case got publicity. If convicted on the lesser charges, Carlisle’s punishment would effectively cut in half, whether that amounts to any jail time or not remains to be seen. Carlisle’s jury trial is set for December 10th. I sincerely hope that people protest at the courthouse, speaking out for those who depend on us to be their voice.


                        • luvmybunny
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                            I don’t understand how rabbits are labeled. I would consider them more as pets and  livestock are more like farm animals in my mind! I hope she gets a long sentence and pays for what she did and will NEVER be able to work around animals or own an animal EVER! She should never know the joy of being loved by a pet.


                          • MarkBun
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                              Posted By bunnymum on 11/05/2009 11:48 AM

                              I don’t understand how rabbits are labeled.

                               

                              Rabbits are a prey species.  They were/are a mainstay food and clothing source for many people throughout the world.  As such, they are on the list as livestock so that they can contiue to be so.  I’m not agreeing with it but that is why they are labeled that way. 


                            • babybunsmum
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                                i don’t agree with it but i understand that categorization too mark. what gets me… even if you ignore the fact that those particular rabbits were bred for selling as pets, and even if you concede that rabbits are livestock, this case is really still incredibly disgusting. (i say this just to rant and not because i think i’m participating in a debate.) i mean, aren’t there are laws dictating what are humane ways to “slaughter” livestock sick or not? i’m sure drowning slowly isn’t one of them. those poor poor babies! i can’t erase the image of them from my head. the complete callousness of this woman and the store really really really burns me. discussions on this topic seriously point me towards vegitarianism.

                                i got the same response from the attorney.


                              • skibunny8503
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                                  “Because they were sick” Are you serious??!! I cannot believe they tried her with an M1 or M2! I am currently on jury duty and I have learned a lot about all the different kinds. And I think she should be charged an f2 (I don’t say felony 1 because since it was an animal and not a human…but someone that does that to animals, you know they’ll do worse to humans). I’m sorry but the defense about them being sick; I don’t think that would work in court. You don’t drown a dog because “he was sick”. Any animal that is truly sick and needs to pass on should be “put to sleep” like any other animal. If you replace the animal with a child, then that is murder. With a M1 or M2 charge she won’t be in jail long even if she does go to jail. I guess if nothing happens, then only thing we can say is that at least everyone knows who she is and she’ll have that on her background. Who wants to hire a person that kills animals, that’s just asking for someone to go after their employees.


                                • Frankz
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                                    This is what I sent:

                                     

                                    Dear J. Jeffrey Holland,

                                        I wanted to email you today to tell you that this woman, Elizabeth Carlisle, who drowned those poor rabbits, should not have a reduced sentence. These rabbits were not intended for livestock, they were at a petstore, intended to be someone’s companion animal. Even if they were livestock, they’re animals who can feel pain.

                                        If they were not to be sold, they should’ve been humanly euthanized. What happened to them surely was not humane. Those rabbits eyes were popping out there head, and surely enough they felt the pain of drowning and suffocation.

                                        As a rabbit owner, though maybe not important to most-this was like a murder. Maybe not a person, but an animal who could have felt pain at the time of their deaths. This wasn’t even for a meat rabbit..she did this just for the cruel and horrendous fun of it.

                                    Please do not reduce this sentence, it is animal cruelty. Nothing more can be said about this horrible act of such.

                                    Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope you will not give her a small sentence..more like the longest possible.

                                    [script removed]


                                  • Quantum
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                                       Here’s mine:

                                       

                                      Dear Mr. Holland,

                                       
                                      As I type this, my personal “livestock”, Judge Roy Bean, is strolling around my living room.  Rabbits, for a great many people, are companion animals.  They live in our homes and are treated as such.  25 chapters of the House Rabbit Society in the United States, as well as chapters in Italy and Canada would seem to bear this out.  Please add my voice to the others calling for you to prosecute this case to the fullest extent of the law.  

                                      The defense attorney’s attempt to paint rabbits as livestock rather than companion animals is unconscionable.  Even if the court were to find merit in that argument, Ohio State Law states:
                                       
                                      (A) In the case of cattle, calves, horses, mules, sheep, swine, and other livestock, all animals are rendered insensible to pain by a single blow or gunshot or an electrical, chemical, or other means that is rapid and effective, before being shackled, hoisted, thrown, cast, or cut;” 

                                      Even livestock, it would seem, are due a humane death.  Judging by the photo that Ms. Carlisle chose to post on her Facebook page, her actions were not those of someone forced by an overbearing manager into an unmentionable act, nor those of someone wishing to humanely end the suffering of an injured or ill animal. 

                                      Please, prosecute her to the fullest extent that the law will allow and send a message to any others of Ms. Carlisle’s mindset that Ohio takes a firm stand against animal cruelty.


                                    • Moonlight_Wolf
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                                        Here is mine:

                                        Dear Mr. Holland,

                                        I am writing you today to tell you that Elizabeth Carlisle, the woman who drowned the two rabbits from the pet store, should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

                                        This is an extreme case of animal cruelty. Drowning two defenseless animals is horrid and immoral. These animals like all others feel pain and fear. An animal’s fear and pain are no different from a human’s. These animals were slaughtered for amusement, rather than food. It is revolting that someone would not take into account the fact that they were brutally murdering an innocent animal.

                                        Even if the animals were not going to be sold and were in bad condition, they should have been humanely euthanized, and this is not the way to go about doing that.

                                        I personally have two bunnies and would consider them companion pets rather than livestock, as many other people would. I find their company just as pleasurable as a dog, so shouldn’t they be categorized as pets rather than livestock. Even if they were livestock, livestock would have experienced the same feelings of fear and pain from this incident.

                                        Bunnies are lovely pets and with my experience their fear and pain seems no different from that of a dog or cat.

                                        It does not matter what you call them and the excuses that are made to justify this act, the fact that two innocent, defenseless, rabbits were brutally and soullessly slaughtered cannot be hidden by any excuses.

                                        I am urging you to prosecute Elizabeth Carlisle to the full extent of the law; it is not acceptable for people to brutally slaughter animals, especially ones that were being sold in the pet store.

                                        Thank you,

                                        Katherine


                                      • Desma
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                                          Does anybody have the news link to what happened. I don’t think I was here at that time.


                                        • MarkBun
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                                            There’s a link in the first post and a link in that link to a full story from PETA


                                          • Desma
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                                              She is a sick rotten devil worshipping b—ch. I hope somebody would grab her by the scruff of the neck and hold her under water. I will definitely send an email. People like this can also hurt and torture human beings. I would love to mash her face in.


                                            • Deleted User
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                                                Posted By Sarita on 11/05/2009 05:51 AM
                                                What I wonder is why should there be any difference between livestock and pets – they all deserve humane treatment don’t they and a humane end to death. Don’t livestock feel pain and have fear – I think they do.

                                                 

                                                It is a fact that there is no difference in their suffering. There is a documentary about the feelings of livestock animals called “The Emotional Life of Farm Animals”. It is worth watching.


                                              • MarkBun
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                                                  Posted By Desma on 11/06/2009 03:15 PM
                                                  She is a sick rotten devil worshipping b—ch. I hope somebody would grab her by the scruff of the neck and hold her under water. I will definitely send an email. People like this can also hurt and torture human beings. I would love to mash her face in.

                                                   

                                                  I’m sorry but I was laughing as I read this.  You are worried that she could also hurt a human being AND you’d love to smash her face in.


                                                • jerseygirl
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                                                    Gotta admit – I laughed too. ^ Oh Desma – I think I get you though, emotion can certainly boil up in cases like these – especially if you’re hearing of it for the first time. The perpetrator in this case seem lacking in emotion somehow. To undertake the task mangers orders or not but then publicise the deed – seems so cold. Hard to understand. Bet she’s feeling some strong emotions now though.

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                                                Forum THE LOUNGE Update on the Petland Rabbit Drownings