BINKYBUNNY FORUMS > BEHAVIOR > paint, plaster, oil base clay. . .??
Last Post by BB at 9/06/2006 10:35 PM (33 Replies)
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User is Offline Lucy
Chicago, IL
379 posts Send Private Message
6/10/2006 6:37 PM
so, apparently I've adopted an art bunny- which is great since my boyfriend and I are art students. But, I'm sure it's not good for Fujoe's health. He goes after plaster molds and oil-base clay, but that's ok because once I saw the cheaw marks I hid them- but the paint. He's eating all of the paint off of the baseboards. The apartment is old and the paint is thick, he'll get to the wood and continue eating in a new area. I've tried rubbing ivory soap and it'll work of a little bit, but back he goes. Please, does anyone have any suggestions? A few days ago I got him neutered, and he seems to be more attracted to the baseboards. I just don't want to leave him out and then reilize he's consumed too much paint because I was cooking, or in the shower, or whatever. Thanks!



User is Offline BB
San Francisco Area
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6/10/2006 9:56 PM

Welcome fujoethebunny! Now you're entered into the drawing twice.  Good Luck.

In old buildings, the paint on the walls may even be lead based which is dangerous for your bunny.      So, for now,  when you are not supervising, block him from that area until you find a solution that works.  

My vet gave me the perfume tip:  Rub perfume on the area.  I can't stand strong perfume, so I spray it on a paper towel and rub it on, instead of spraying. Sometimes that permanently turns my bunnies off, and sometimes I just have to replenish every now and then. 

Another member: HopperBunny said rubbing lemon rinds on the areas works for her.

If your bunny still chews on the walls (I'm thinking corners and molding?) there are clear plastic wall guards that you may be able to use. 

Also, while you're finding solutions through trial and error, keep a water bottle handy and give him a squirt to the body.   That should chase him off immediately.  It's only temporary, but it's a good way to quickly deter most bunnies for the moment and keep them out of danger. (some bunnies don't care, and will get soaked, but most aren't fond of it)

Let us know what finally works!! If you find something new - a brand new tip for a safe deterrent, let me know, and I may add it to the Bunny Proofing section to my website, so others can benefit too.

Have a Binky Weekend!




User is Offline Lucy
Chicago, IL
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6/11/2006 7:52 AM
ok. . .so, I tried the lemon; kind of. It seems odd that a rabbit wouldn't like lemon, so I took half of one and offered it to Fujoe, and well. . .He ate it. Apparently he likes lemons. oh woe is me Any brand of perfume? Any type? Floral? fruity? The ivory soap worked for a while, but since his neturing a few days ago, it's not working. also, has anyone tried deoderant? a friend told me to try that, but that was for a dog- not a bunny. thanks, and I'll try not to eat my bunny today. http://www.binkybunny.com/site/DesktopModules/NTForums/images/emoticons/unsure.gif



User is Offline BB
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6/11/2006 8:16 AM

Happy Sunday to you  fujoethebunny.  

She actually used the rind of the lemon.   Maybe there is something the the peel that turns them off more than the actual fruit.   But if you test it out by offering lemon rind to him first to see if he'll be deterred, don't let him eat it like it's a treat. 

So far any perfume works for me.  It hasn't seemed to matter what kind. I remember her saying it was the other chemicals in perfume that bunnies smell that they are not happy with. 

Good luck!




User is Offline HoppyBunny
Western U.S.
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6/13/2006 3:14 PM
Actually lemon oil works better but in a pinch rubbing the skin to get the oil out works too, or grapefruit. : ) That grapefruit is my latest edition to experiments. Of course some bunnies are going to be the odd ones out and another remedy will have to be found. Have you tried the perfume yet?



User is Offline Lucy
Chicago, IL
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6/13/2006 6:31 PM

ok, so here we go again

I did try the perfume. I went to walgreens and told the lady working at the counter what I needed (pretty sure she thought I was crazy), but we decided on a cheap but strong perfume. I get home, spray it on the paper towel-- the bunny sneezed. the bunny sneezed? yes, he sneezed. it was cute, I had never heard him sneexe before, but that should be a good sign, right? no.

He was being lazy, and didn't go to the base board, but within an hour or so of apply the perfume, he was chewing. I sprayed it again- this time on the baseboard (my apt STILL smells like old lady, thank you so much Fujoe). That was last night, when I let him out this morning, he went right to the spot. So, it doesn't work. At all.

sigh

so now. . I was trying to clean the baseboards- there's ivory soap all over them that I rubbed, but what happened was that I made the baseboard smell like soap even more- I just basically rubbed it in-- he hasn't touched any of the baseboards that I "washed." so that's the only thing that has kind of worked.

 

I'll try the lemon rind--but that's the part of the lemon that the bunny ate; not the furit part. and I"ll try the grapefruit. Honestly, if anyone has any, I mean ANY other suggestions, please let me know. I'll keep everyone posted on what happens with this. . .

This is driving me crazy.




User is Offline BB
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6/13/2006 10:37 PM

Wow, you have one determined bunny!   I know it's not funny, but I have to laugh that even stinky perfume didn't turn him away.  Man, mine steer clear of the area that I rubbed it into.    I do try and find a perfume that I won't be turned off by either.  LOL.   It's not the perfume itself, but the alchohol and oils of some sort.  But the scent isn't as big a deal, so I choose something light.  But doesn't seem to matter with your bunny.   She's got a taste for wall!

It seems like the ivory soap is working with yours.  If that keeps her away for at least a few days, I would love to add that to my the tips section of the House Proofing area. 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you!   How old is your bunny?




User is Offline Lucy
Chicago, IL
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6/14/2006 8:00 PM
Fujoe the bunny is 10 months old. I adopted him on craigslist, and his previous owner said he never chewed on the base boards. I honestly wonder if there is lead paint somewhere under all of the paint that's on the baseboards. I have no doubt in my mind the perfume does not even remotely work. I left a part of the wall uncovered (i had put a piece of cardboard over the base board so he wouldn't chew at it) which I had used the perfume. I went and took a shower, when I got out, about six inches of the top part of the baseboard was missing. sigh so this is what I found to work the best: Ivory soap, but not in the manner in which i was applying it before. (you can only use plain ivory soap-nothing else!) I took the bar and rubbed it all over the base board, it's all chunky and falling off. Then I take a wet rag and wipe it all over. I'm basically "melting" the soap and creating a thin layer all over the base board. This has seemed to work the best so far- granted it's been only two days or so. My next experiment is to take a spray bottle and make some high concentration of ivory soap water to spray on problem areas when I see him chewing. It takes a while to apply the soap. So, once again, if anyone has ANYTHING else, please let me know. If I could figure out how to post pictures on the forum I would like to show everyone what I'm dealing with. thanks so much binkybunny- go and add the ivory soap.



User is Offline BB
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6/14/2006 8:44 PM
I think your inventing a whole new deterrent!  That's great!   So good work in finding a solution so far! 

I love it,  and that's exactly what this forum and whole site is about -  helping each other out.
Bunnies are all different, and what may work for one, may not work for another.   If something I have on the site doesn't work, and you find something that your bunny reacts better too, then that's wonderful because now another tip can be added -  more options for people. 

Let us know how long this ends up lasting.  I'd love to post "fuejoethebunny's  deterrent tip" in the bunny proofing section.   (I still have to check with a vet before I officially put it on the house proofing section) But if all goes well, it would be helpful for others  too.

Two days and counting.    I'm hoping for three or more.  I know your are too!!

You can upload pics - there should be upload tools right below where you type your message.

Just click on browse, and then find the location of your picture on your computer and upload. 

I'd love to put those pictures in the "TROUBLE MAKER"  Gallery.



User is Offline Lucy
Chicago, IL
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6/14/2006 8:55 PM
"You can upload pics - there should be upload tools right below where you type your message. Just click on browse, and then find the location of your picture on your computer and upload. " hey binkybunny- I don't have any of that- I think it's because I have a mac- did you know that? I also can't change the txt color or font or anything. just letting you know. . .



User is Offline BB
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6/14/2006 9:04 PM
Hey Lucy,

Great catch!   So the my admin guy is working on that right now.  I'll post to you when it SHOULD be ready.





User is Offline BB Administrator
Geekville
BB Webmaster
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6/14/2006 9:30 PM
Okay, should be good to go as far as uploading pictures now, but we are still trying to find out why a mac is not compatible with all of the other options available. (fonts, size, color, happy faces etc)

So what DO you see when you are posting or replying.

I think I'll post a poll to see how many other users might be having the same problem.  

Thanks so much for your patience.  We're still working out the wrinkles!


Fixes Stuff. Thinks about Fixing stuff. Dreams about fixing stuff. Is it fixed yet?

User is Offline Lucy
Chicago, IL
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6/16/2006 7:40 AM
Ok. . .so here are the pics that everyone has been waiting for. Please, please, PLEASE, don't think I"m a bad owner becuase of what you see. I believe that the rooms are bunny proofed, and within a few mins he'll get a chunck off. I'm trying reall hard- nothing is working. So, for the soap. . .it was only three days. I left him out yesterday when I went to work, and there was nothing wrong with the apt. He was a perfectly behaved bunny. This morning when I let him out of the cage he went to every single baseboard. It was crazy. I couldn't catch up. As soon as I would chase him away and look at the damage, I would hear him chewing on the other side of the room. I put him back in his cage and went to the drug store to get a spray bottle. That isn't working too well either. It takes like four sprays to get him to scatter- and I think he knows it's me because I was on the floor making that bunny box thing and he nipped me on the butt- twice. Then went for hands. I'm so confused!! Please help! I'm going to put more soap on the boards, at least it's keeping him at bay for a few days. I also got another spray bottle that I put soap water in. I hope that's a quick fix to the areas that have been chewed on.

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User is Offline Lucy
Chicago, IL
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6/16/2006 7:43 AM
Here are some more. I'm sorry that the pics are so small. I'm only allowed pics that are 80kb which are tiny- i noticed bigger pictures in the other forum. . .oh well. Oh, and it's not like I don't give him other stuff to chew on, look at the corner of this cardboard box! -and there are many more everywhere.

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User is Offline BB
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6/16/2006 10:41 AM
EDITED: I edited out the chew suggestions as you said he has plenty to chew on.

Egads!    Of course you are not a bad bunny mom, you have just got a bunny whose crazy mad for wall.   I just got off the phone with the House Rabbit Society, and told them everything, and they are stumped too, and they are the king of king of king of experts. 

 I am going to continue to search and discuss with other experts too, and I will fill you in on any new solutions.   I love challenges!  Though I know you're not thrilled, you'd like to have a solution for this destructive bunny right now.  

Oh, hey, I just thought of something, you said he's adopted, so is he neutered already?

Also, has he been grumpy just recently or has always had a bit of an attitude?




User is Offline HoppyBunny
Western U.S.
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6/16/2006 5:13 PM
I am thinking at this point you may want to consider buying some regluar pine boards to screw or nail over the places where he chews. From the look of it (lots of layers of paint and old moulding) there may be lead present. You can test this with little breakable bliser things with a cotton tip on the end. You rub the surface, wait and see. I've bought them at my local hardware store.



User is Offline Lucy
Chicago, IL
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6/17/2006 12:00 PM
ok- he's neutered- about a week and a half ago. The thing is the vet told me it would be a little bit (a few weeks to a few months) before the testosterone would flush out of his system. The thing is since the surgry he's been even more agressive and has been chewing a lot more. I put out a ton of cardboard boxes yesterday, I found more wood in the apt (my boyfriend works in a woodshop at our school), so there's scraps of oak, pine and poplar everywhere. I built tunnels with the boxes, built a bunny box thing. But I went to work last night and left him out of the cage (he seemed a little bi more occupied after I put all of that stuff out) when I got home there was about double of the baseboards chewed. I've been crying- i'm too old to be crying over a bunny, but I'm really lost. hoppy bunny- I know what your saying about puting wood over the baseboards, the thing is, these baseboards are higher than normal ones- and it's not like he chews just on one spot, it's all over. I would have to do the living room, dining room and hallway, that would be really expensive, not to mention all of the holes I would have to screw into the walls- it's a rented apt. I want that to be my absolute last option. I'm trying to cover the baseboards with boxes and furniture, but he nudges the boxes out of the way. I got a piece of paper from my landlord saying there was no lead in the apt. I'll go and get a kit to test to be on the safe side. This morning I ran and bought this stuff called "fooey"- a bitter spray that's supposed to repell all animals. i sprayed it on the problem areas, he didn't go to them at frist, and then he went to all of them. I was so angry yelling no and spraying him with water- nothing. I sprayed some on cardboard and pushed his nose to it yelling no----- he started licking it!! I started to cry. He's in his cage now, and I can't let him out, except into his xpen thing. I tried some of the stuff and it's really foul. . . i called my vet also. . . this is so frustrating, esp since he's really affectionate and laid back half of the time, and the other half will just try to kill himself.



User is Offline HoppyBunny
Western U.S.
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6/17/2006 1:56 PM

Oh honey (((HUGS))) I've had a crappy day too, turst me and I too was reduced to tears. I got my head ripped off by a very nasty person.

Hang in there hon, take a moment and breathe. I think at this point, it is best to confine your bun to a cage like a wire dog crate. Has your bun always had so much freedom? That may be part of the reason why your bun is doing this. Limits need to be set first, then freedom. Do you have a cage or something you can set up as one? You need to take control of this situation. No bunny should reduce you to tears.




User is Offline BB
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6/17/2006 9:24 PM

Edited 11:42 OH, that's right, you said he was had surgery in your first post.  It's good to check with the vet as sometimes bunnies that are in pain can take out their aggressions by being extremely destructive, so you want to be sure all is okay. 

Most likely it's just his hormones being out of whack.   This is also still the time of year when bunnies really feel the need to mate!  (January to July) So, maybe as the mating season is coming to an end, his sexual frustration is also very strong.    Also bunnies can become more territorial this time of year which can cause a whole bunch of problems.  And since your little guy still has those hormones driving him, he could just have so much going on.   Like a crazy teenager!

(when I say this time of year, I am assuming you are above the equator.) 

  Oh, Lucy, I am so sorry that it's been so frustrating!   He may settle down in a month, but for now I agree with HoppyBunny to confine him more.  Depending on the cage set-up, you could attach the x-pen to his cage to allow him more freedom when you want to give him lovin', but keep him out of trouble. 

I know how you feel though, I've been COMPLETELY frustrated by bunnies before. That's the main reason I started this website, because, even with all the advice of the experts, I find myself doing a mixture of their advice and trial and error.  Believe me when I tell you the BUNNY TEAR CLUB is full of frustrated humans.  As you have found what works for other bunnies, may not be a solution for yours.   And that's what we're here for-  to help each other out and continue to search and discover solutions that we can all benefit from. 

It's only a matter of time before we  discover something that will stop your  stubborn bunny!  It may be humane confinement. (meaning not allowing him full freedom, especially when you aren't supervising him)

I say for now, let his hormones settle down and keep him in his x-pen for a few days at least.  In the meantime, you take a break, take a deep breath, give him attention in the x-pen (make sure he's got toys in there to chew on.) 

THEN, once life is some what back to normal, then allow him out only when you are there.  The moment he starts to chew on your baseboards etc., put him back in the x-pen for 15 minutes or so.  Then let him out, and the moment he goes back to the board, back he goes.  I would say by the third time, he's back for good, until the next day.

Over time, this repetitive consistent consequence, some rabbits will begin to  associate:- chewing equals confinement.  Though it may take time, patience and persistence.  So that's why I say, wait until you are both settled down.   You may even have to wait a few weeks until his hormones are out, and he's calmed down.   

But mostly, you want to be in a place where when you put him back, it's just in a calm way, so it doesn't bother you and cause you so much frustration.

Take a deep breath and have a cup of chamomile tea or whatever works for you.   

P.S.  I love the avatar picture!  What a cute little trouble maker!

Peace.




User is Offline Amie Noakes
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6/19/2006 5:37 AM

I really hope this gets better! I've been reading along, you are a great person, because most people would have given their bunny up by now, Feel Better! I'm sure your patience will pull through!



Rebel: The sweetest little mutt you'd ever meet. I can hardly express how amazing this old dog is.

User is Offline Lucy
Chicago, IL
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6/20/2006 6:20 PM
I want to thank everyone for their support. It means a great deal to me- this site is amazing, esp. for my situation- I just wish that this was happening to someone else . So, I called the vet and talked to her. She told me to keep him confined (yay to binky bunny for telling me the same thing!), and I have been. He's only been out for maybe 2 hours since saturday. The thing that I was really concerned about was that I'm going out of town- going back home for two weeks- I've had my plane ticket for months. So, he's with a friend right now...eek. But I think he's better. He's been upset being in the pen, but I told her to keep him in there. The vet offered to house him incase he gets out of control. . .thank goodness my friend lives in the building next to the vet So I've been much better. She's given me a few phone numbers to call, and she told me once he settles down and I let him out to cover the baseboards with aluminum foil. apparently they don't like the sound or texture or something about it. I'll be back in a few weeks and will update everyone. Thank you soooooooo much!

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User is Offline BB
San Francisco Area
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6/22/2006 10:06 AM

Have a good vacation or whatever your two weeks is.   Maybe by the time you come back he'll be better. 

Aluminam foil didn't do didley squat for my bunnies, but you know what, I bet it will for yours, because everything that worked for mine, didn't for yours.  err...did you understand that? 

Anyway, have a good two weeks!!




User is Offline HoppyBunny
Western U.S.
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6/22/2006 5:08 PM

Have a great vacation! Something also to consider is some Rescue Remedy from Bach. It's a flower essence used for stress etc. I use it on my bunnies when they are stressed or acting out a little too much with the attitude. I buy it from my local health food store. If you are interested here is their web site:

http://www.bachflower.com/Pets.htm

I put 1 dropperfull in a gallon of water. I totally spaced the tin foil thing. I had totally forgotten about that until you mentioned it. Wow I'm getting old! Let us know when you get back and how things are!




User is Offline Lucy
Chicago, IL
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7/06/2006 3:51 PM
I know I haven't written here for a while, but here we go again. I'm still on vacation- my flight is tomorrow and I need some help. I called my friend who is bunny sitting for me and asked about fujoe's behavior. she said that he was being perfectly behavied!! HE'S NOT CHEWING ON THE BASE BOARDS AT ALL!!! So now I know it's not the bunny, but it's the enviornment which is making him a menace. I don't really know what do do since I don't know what is making him go crazy. I bought a lead paint testing kit- so I'll see if there is lead- the apt manager said there wasn't when we moved in. But if there isn't any lead, then I have to do something. I don't want to give him up... but my apt isn't the best for him. So, I need help. Please. If there's anyone who knows what I can do to seal the baseboards. Maybe if I can seal them and take away whatever smell is trying him crazy I can attempt to fix the problem. Anything will help- but I have to try to seal the apt. thank you so much for dealing with me- i just don't want to lose fujoe.



User is Offline HoppyBunny
Western U.S.
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7/06/2006 4:51 PM
Sealing your baseboards, hmm. Well you could try a water based clear coat. Test it on a small patch to see. Now was Fujoe staying at the bunny sitters house or yours? If he was at your house it is possible you need to re-establish who is top bun.



User is Offline Lucy
Chicago, IL
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7/06/2006 10:25 PM
he's been staying at the bunny sitter's place- just a few blocks away from my apt. . .there's no carpenters that know how to seal some paint?? oh ya... Fujoe knows he's the top bunny... not me.

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User is Offline HoppyBunny
Western U.S.
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7/07/2006 4:40 PM
OMG what a cute pic! : ) Sealing wood is normally done with polyeurothane. Which the fumes can be toxic as well as the product itself so it isn't really such a simple solution. I would advise going to your local do it yourself or hardware store and asking a pro. They may be able to provide you with more ideas.



User is Offline BB
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7/15/2006 5:17 PM
Hi Fujoethebunny!   Are you back home yet?  Hope you had a relaxing time away.

How are things going with your destructo bunny?



User is Offline Lucy
Chicago, IL
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7/20/2006 11:49 AM
hello! Sorry I haven't been responding. . .I did get back and well, he's still chewing. I'm trying really hard. He stopped for a few days and then started with rage. I tried the aluminum foil. . .he started eating that too. . . I talked to the vet and she said to shake a jar of coins at him when he chews to scare him away. It does scare him away but he goes right back to it after 5 mins. sooo here's the plan: cover everything with cardboard untill we have enough time to put aluminum flashing (used for roofs) all around the apt. It's a little cheaper than plastic or wood. I just have to call the vet and make sure it's safe- but he shouldn't but through metal...i would be shocked. so ya, i have lots of toys everywhere. . .but i'm just going to have to have a really bad looking apt. The other thing we are doing is building one of those cube cages things. I'll email a pic to binkybunny when it's done to post. if anyone has anything to add, that would be great. I keep breaking down... why can't my bunny be a good bunny?

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User is Offline BB
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7/20/2006 8:46 PM
Welcome back!  He is quite the bugger!  How can such an adorable bunny be so naughty!

 I am sorry the aluminum foil didn't work.  My bunnies tear that stuff up too.

Hopefully he will mellow with age, as some bunnies can be tyrants their first year.   And maybe he will settle down as his hormones continue to die down after his surgery.

Also, you may need to just attach an x-pen to your cube cage and just use that  for his freedom.   He  just may not be allowed full access to your apartment if the flashing doesn't work.

You can also begin to allow freedom slowly, and when he starts chewing in the wrong area, back he goes.   He may associate lack of freedom with his behavior and learn to stop - though this technique takes a while.   It doesn't happen in just a few days. 

Oh, I almost forgot to ask, how was he at your friend's house while you were away.  Even if he was confined, how did he handle that in your friend's opinion?

Hang in there!  (hugs)



User is Offline barbara elliott
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8/23/2006 6:45 PM

Hi Fujoe!

Your bunny is adorable. I'm sorry he's being so naughty. I'm only a bunny amateur, but these ideas came to mind: 1. Do you have a regular routine for Fujoe's day? I'm not so great about it myself, but I've read that bunnies like to have regular sleep/feeding/play times every day, and some people have written about their bunnies being sassy when a routine is upset. 2. Maybe Fujoe wants a friend? (I know you might be going, "what?!", with the way you have your hands full right now) ...but maybe Fujoe is lagamorph-lonely, and a companion would help. I know you love your bunny and I wish you all the best of luck. Like I said, I'm an amateur, but I was just thinking bunny-psychologically.



User is Offline BB
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8/24/2006 11:34 PM

Actually Tabby, those are absolutely wonderful suggestions.   You are one rabbit savvy amateur!  

 It is so true about schedules -  It can make them feel more secure.   Being prey animals, knowing what is coming next is calming.  I know this, but always forget to use that and I think this advice can also help with shy bunnies. 

I also think your idea about a second bunny is a great suggestion as well.  I do agree that this can really help sometimes. I know my Jack used to really want to tear up the place, and though he is good, and follows orders, his state of being really calmed down once he was bonded with Rucy.

Fujoe, if you do decide to go the route of a second bunny, I really suggest taking Fujoe bunny dating at the your local House Rabbit Society there in Chicago.   Let them know what kind of bunny he is (most likely dominant) so they can help make the right match - maybe with a passive bunny, or ya never know - a bunny can really change around another bunny.   Fujoe might end up being passive with another bunny.  

You will have to go through a bonding period, but if let him choose a bunny, it's usually much less time and stress involved.

My first bunny went through about six speed dates at my local HRS before he settled on one that I would have never picked out.  But I love her too bits now.

 

 

 




User is Offline Gina Won
110 posts Send Private Message
9/04/2006 5:01 PM
I've got it!!!

Well at least with my bun, Floppy... we have this antique dresser that she's been gnawing on and in order to get her to stop, we tried rubbing bittermelon on it first, but she kinda liked it. So then we rubbed ginger on it, which it turns out she likes too. So THEN we rubbed garlic on it and VOILA, she won't gnaw on it anymore!

I'm not sure if this will help you since I don't know if you want to try covering ALL those baseboards with garlic, but I just wanted to let you in on my new discovery. It's only one little corner of the dresser that she likes to gnaw so it's easy for us to just rub a bit of raw garlic on... however in your case, there may be a risk of making your whole apartment smell like garlic and I'm not sure if you want that. But either way, just wanted to let ya know. Good luck!



User is Offline BB
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9/06/2006 10:35 PM
Posted By ligeia on 09/04/2006 7:01 PM
I've got it!!!

Well at least with my bun, Floppy... we have this antique dresser that she's been gnawing on and in order to get her to stop, we tried rubbing bittermelon on it first, but she kinda liked it. So then we rubbed ginger on it, which it turns out she likes too. So THEN we rubbed garlic on it and VOILA, she won't gnaw on it anymore!

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I'll have to mark that down as a deterrent!    I'll add it to the house-proofing section and I'll be sure to credit you. (your member name - ligeia)   I always need to double check tips with a couple of other experts and vet.   And I usually just compile a list over month or two and then go over them all, and post the ones that are valid So it'll probably be in the tips section in about a month.  THANKS!!   Exactly what this site is about. Helping each other out through our own trial and error and coming up with some more ideas!




BINKYBUNNY FORUMS > BEHAVIOR > paint, plaster, oil base clay. . .??

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